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US Government Borrowing Nearly Doubling

calamity

calamity

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Rob Larrikin said:
When a bull (Obama) is let loose in a china shop for 8 years, you will have to spend a lot to fix everything up. The moral is; don't let a bull into your china shop.
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:roll:
 
Rob Larrikin said:
When a bull (Obama) is let loose in a china shop for 8 years, you will have to spend a lot to fix everything up. The moral is; don't let a bull into your china shop.
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Or maybe be fiscally conservative, live within your means, and don't cut revenue while increasing expenditures! :thumbs:
 
Chomsky said:
Or maybe be fiscally conservative, live within your means, and don't cut revenue while increasing expenditures! :thumbs:
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Heavens to betsy, a liberal more conservative than the Republican party.
 
Chomsky said:
Or maybe be fiscally conservative, live within your means, and don't cut revenue while increasing expenditures! :thumbs:
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Cutting tax and cutting down the size of government is the only way you're going to receive greater revenue. Unemployed people don't pay taxes.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
Cutting tax and cutting down the size of government is the only way you're going to receive greater revenue. Unemployed people don't pay taxes.
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High tax policy under Bill Clinton led to revenue as a % of GDP outperforming both Reagan and Bush's tax cuts.
 
Ronny RayGun is the asshat that actually started this crazy level of exponential debt bull**** but hey, the GOP assholes don't care ........... everyone else that followed just thought; hey, an ACTOR is borrowing a lot of ****ing money & not paying it back ........... I can do that **** too ................ LOL ...........
 
Winston said:
Heavens to betsy, a liberal more conservative than the Republican party.
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Hah, I never thought of that irony. :mrgreen:

Thing is, I'm "live & let live" guy, so I'm socially liberal in matters of public policy.

But in my private life, I'm pretty darn economically conservative. I wouldn't say I'm frugal, but since I was a kid I did my best to save 10% off-the-top of every check & piece of income I got, putting it into a life savings account. I always paid myself first, and screw everyone else. Did it since my paper route, at the insistence of my Dad, who definitely was frugal!

It doesn't sound like much (10%), especially with paper routes and high-school jobs. But do it like religion, and after a couple years you find you've got nice little chunk of change. After the better part of a decade, you've got a nest-egg that can facilitate your life's goals.

I convinced my kids of this plan back in their teens, they've been doing it, and they've thanked me. It's really a great thing every young person should do, IMO. And keep at it through adult life, if you can.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
Cutting tax and cutting down the size of government is the only way you're going to receive greater revenue. Unemployed people don't pay taxes.
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Well, that's definitely not what's happening though. Not at all. Not paying-down a huge debt during a booming economy, while going into an extended period of rising interest rates, is unconscionable. Servicing that rising-rate debt is going to rob us of many services and benefits.
 
Chomsky said:
Well, that's definitely not what's happening though. Not at all. Not paying-down a huge debt during a booming economy, while going into an extended period of rising interest rates, is unconscionable. Servicing that rising-rate debt is going to rob us of many services and benefits.
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I will start by saying I think that the debt that has been rising for decades is horrible. Not only will interest rates rise, but the Federal reserve will stop buying the debt and actually sell off some of the debt they hold. Thus further increasing interest rates on longer term debt.

I was and am against the reduction in individual tax rates. I am for the lowering of corporate tax rates however for a number of reasons. We live in a global economy. One factor in that competition is tax rates. A business losing market share,thus revenue would not try to make up for it by raising prices, while it's competition kept lowering theirs. So there are times when you have to take a step back lowering revenues so that in the longer term you increase revenues. Next we have the part of the law where corporations will pay taxes only on income created in America. Is that really lost revenue? Most of that money was never brought back to the U.S. so was never taxed. Bringing it back and spending it here versus overseas acquisitions I argue will generate more tax revenue rather than less. It will also help stop what the last administration protested so much about, corporate inversions. There are times when a penny saved is a dollar lost. It is a matter of how money is used IMO.
 
cuban smokes said:
Ronny RayGun is the asshat that actually started this crazy level of exponential debt bull**** but hey, the GOP assholes don't care ........... everyone else that followed just thought; hey, an ACTOR is borrowing a lot of ****ing money & not paying it back ........... I can do that **** too ................ LOL ...........
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"Ronny RayGun." I love that. :mrgreen:

And the rest of your post--yeah, conservatives hate the deficit...unless it's "one of their own" driving it up! Then "deficits don't matter."
 
washunut said:
I will start by saying I think that the debt that has been rising for decades is horrible. Not only will interest rates rise, but the Federal reserve will stop buying the debt and actually sell off some of the debt they hold. Thus further increasing interest rates on longer term debt.

I was and am against the reduction in individual tax rates. I am for the lowering of corporate tax rates however for a number of reasons. We live in a global economy. One factor in that competition is tax rates. A business losing market share,thus revenue would not try to make up for it by raising prices, while it's competition kept lowering theirs. So there are times when you have to take a step back lowering revenues so that in the longer term you increase revenues. Next we have the part of the law where corporations will pay taxes only on income created in America. Is that really lost revenue? Most of that money was never brought back to the U.S. so was never taxed. Bringing it back and spending it here versus overseas acquisitions I argue will generate more tax revenue rather than less. It will also help stop what the last administration protested so much about, corporate inversions. There are times when a penny saved is a dollar lost. It is a matter of how money is used IMO.
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Even though I'm inclined not to agree, I can't say I can argue the point. Few of us really can, and the results have yet to demonstrate themselves.

But I am not convinced lowering domestic corporate taxes will appreciably bring that capital back. There's far more business parameters involved, than taxes alone. Labor costs, for one.

And despite the oft touted marginal corp tax rates, the effective U.S. rates were pretty much right dead in the middle of our OECD peer nations.

I guess we shall see. But the CBO didn't force a 1.5T increase in the debt ceiling for the new budget, because we're going to have an overflowing surplus! :doh
 
Rob Larrikin said:
When a bull (Obama) is let loose in a china shop for 8 years, you will have to spend a lot to fix everything up. The moral is; don't let a bull into your china shop.
Click to expand...

I thought it was going to be a USA shop now?
 
Chomsky said:
Even though I'm inclined not to agree, I can't say I can argue the point. Few of us really can, and the results have yet to demonstrate themselves.

But I am not convinced lowering domestic corporate taxes will appreciably bring that capital back. There's far more business parameters involved, than taxes alone. Labor costs, for one.

And despite the oft touted marginal corp tax rates, the effective U.S. rates were pretty much right dead in the middle of our OECD peer nations.

I guess we shall see. But the CBO didn't force a 1.5T increase in the debt ceiling for the new budget, because we're going to have an overflowing surplus! :doh
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Lets remember that bringing capital back is different than investing domestically. Money brought back can be invested. It can also lower debt levels, be used to increase dividends and stock buybacks. Before people jump up and down about buybacks, lets remember that pension funds, insurance companies and retired people rely on a healthy stock market to live.

In addition, there are many who do not agree that the cost will be 1.5 trillion. Of course one one can predict 10 years out. Can't really predict one year out.

As to making investments in America. Of course you are correct there are offsetting costs like labor, health care etc. There are also benefits producing in the largest consumer market in the world. There are also lower transportation costs and less need for inventory in-transit. In addition while we have certain hurdles in doing business here, does that mean we should not work on fixing those whereever we can. I know when I worked in industry it is something that I worked at constantly. Even when you are best in class, you still need to strive to improve.
 
Winston said:
High tax policy under Bill Clinton led to revenue as a % of GDP outperforming both Reagan and Bush's tax cuts.
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That internet boost/bubble though...
 
Chomsky said:
Even though I'm inclined not to agree, I can't say I can argue the point. Few of us really can, and the results have yet to demonstrate themselves.

But I am not convinced lowering domestic corporate taxes will appreciably bring that capital back. There's far more business parameters involved, than taxes alone. Labor costs, for one.

And despite the oft touted marginal corp tax rates, the effective U.S. rates were pretty much right dead in the middle of our OECD peer nations.

I guess we shall see. But the CBO didn't force a 1.5T increase in the debt ceiling for the new budget, because we're going to have an overflowing surplus! :doh
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Apple repatriated something like $38 million and is building a new giant HQ. There have been a lot of indicators so far, but it's only been a month so we could see it snowball and get even bigger, once things settle down a little more (like get the fake investigation over with so the uncertainty can go away) there is a greater chance of things picking up. It may not work out that way, in the end, but the status quo was doing the same thing but just adding a few more circles before going down the drain. So at least there is a plan and hopefully the recent changes can turn into a trend.

Some of the companies giving out raises and bonuses because of tax reform - Jan. 11, 2018
 
Winston said:
High tax policy under Bill Clinton led to revenue as a % of GDP outperforming both Reagan and Bush's tax cuts.
Click to expand...

High taxes always bring in lots of revenue, just as burning your house makes lots of heat.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
Cutting tax and cutting down the size of government is the only way you're going to receive greater revenue. Unemployed people don't pay taxes.
Click to expand...

But y'all never do that! Or at least, the GOP hasn't since Eisenhower! If you'll check, under Obama, the government grew more slowly than under any president since Eisenhower. That, and Obama did cut the deficit by more than half.

But what do y'all do? Just like when Clinton handed Bush 43 a tax surplus (that was projected to pay off the entire federal debt by 2012), y'all slashed taxes...and just like under Bush 43, the deficit start going up again...especially since - like under Bush 43 - y'all are blowing up the Defense budget way the heck more than it needs to be.

So when it comes to taxes and budgets, his actions show that Trump is hardly any different from Bush 43...and how did that turn out by 2008?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
But y'all never do that! Or at least, the GOP hasn't since Eisenhower! If you'll check, under Obama, the government grew more slowly than under any president since Eisenhower. That, and Obama did cut the deficit by more than half.

But what do y'all do? Just like when Clinton handed Bush 43 a tax surplus (that was projected to pay off the entire federal debt by 2012), y'all slashed taxes...and just like under Bush 43, the deficit start going up again...especially since - like under Bush 43 - y'all are blowing up the Defense budget way the heck more than it needs to be.

So when it comes to taxes and budgets, his actions show that Trump is hardly any different from Bush 43...and how did that turn out by 2008?
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It takes time because Trump is being resisted by members of his own party, working hard to stop him. Thanks to Fake News a lot of people don’t actually know him, and I understand that. Heck, if I watched Fake News I wouldn’t have the first clue about Trump.

During your life have you ever been in a situation where you’ve been told about a person by a particular group, and then found out that the person was not like their description at all? It happens all the time.

Fake News are serving you a big three course meal of lies about Trump every day, and you’re wolfing it down. That’s why you don’t actually know the man or his history making behavior.

You talk about Eisenhower. Trump makes Eisenhower look like a fart in a bathtub, and the same with most politicians. The only Presidents or Prime Ministers that can stand in the same room with Trump are George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan, Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher. Yet, thanks to Fake News, you think he’s Archie Bunker. :D

He is already lowering taxes and cutting the size of government but it’s all invisible to you. He’ll do a lot more of that when he gets some of the RINOs in the GOP off his back. The American people will return him to office with a bigger majority next time around, and then even you will see miracles you never believed possible.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
It takes time because Trump is being resisted by members of his own party, working hard to stop him. Thanks to Fake News a lot of people don’t actually know him, and I understand that. Heck, if I watched Fake News I wouldn’t have the first clue about Trump.

During your life have you ever been in a situation where you’ve been told about a person by a particular group, and then found out that the person was not like their description at all? It happens all the time.

Fake News are serving you a big three course meal of lies about Trump every day, and you’re wolfing it down. That’s why you don’t actually know the man or his history making behavior.

You talk about Eisenhower. Trump makes Eisenhower look like a fart in a bathtub, and the same with most politicians. The only Presidents or Prime Ministers that can stand in the same room with Trump are George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan, Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher. Yet, thanks to Fake News, you think he’s Archie Bunker. :D

He is already lowering taxes and cutting the size of government but it’s all invisible to you. He’ll do a lot more of that when he gets some of the RINOs in the GOP off his back. The American people will return him to office with a bigger majority next time around, and then even you will see miracles you never believed possible.
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As an old school conservative from the days of Reagan and Bush I, I'm wondering how long it will take for the Trumpian Kool Aid to wear off on all those who swallowed it. Maybe never, judging by the posts I see in this thread.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
It takes time because Trump is being resisted by members of his own party, working hard to stop him. Thanks to Fake News a lot of people don’t actually know him, and I understand that. Heck, if I watched Fake News I wouldn’t have the first clue about Trump.

During your life have you ever been in a situation where you’ve been told about a person by a particular group, and then found out that the person was not like their description at all? It happens all the time.

Fake News are serving you a big three course meal of lies about Trump every day, and you’re wolfing it down. That’s why you don’t actually know the man or his history making behavior.

You talk about Eisenhower. Trump makes Eisenhower look like a fart in a bathtub, and the same with most politicians. The only Presidents or Prime Ministers that can stand in the same room with Trump are George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan, Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher. Yet, thanks to Fake News, you think he’s Archie Bunker. :D

He is already lowering taxes and cutting the size of government but it’s all invisible to you. He’ll do a lot more of that when he gets some of the RINOs in the GOP off his back. The American people will return him to office with a bigger majority next time around, and then even you will see miracles you never believed possible.
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And yet Trump wants to waste billions on more nuclear weapons and a stupid border wall.

Conservatives will never reduce the debt, as long as they feed the military industrial complex.

And this tax bill will raise the debt by a trillion dollars. Some conservatives do not seem to get basic accounting, if you take in less revenue you will get less funds and higher debt. Those tax cuts did not pay for themselves in Kansas when Brownback passed them and now Kansas' debt has exploded.
 
Rob Larrikin said:
Trump is cutting taxes and cutting down the size of government. He's doing many other things too, to get the economy going, and it's working.
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... at increasing debt ...
 
calamity said:
As an old school conservative from the days of Reagan and Bush I, I'm wondering how long it will take for the Trumpian Kool Aid to wear off on all those who swallowed it. Maybe never, judging by the posts I see in this thread.
Click to expand...

Most people start out as liberals (like me, before 24), and slowly wise up and become conservatives (like my father, at 60). It's sad to see the occasional conservative going the wrong way, but ever since I was a kid I've seen that happen in nature. You'd be looking at school of minnows in a drying up puddle going towards the only exit, only to see one turn around and go back to the mud that would trap it. There's always one in every group.

Do yourself a favor. Watch Fox News for a week or so, and see if you don't change your mind. If you don’t, then go ahead and be a minnow in the mud. At least give yourself that last chance.
 
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