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Can we all agree that Trump lied during the SOTU address?

SonOfDaedalus said:
But immigrants outperform Americans. So, what's the problem you're trying to solve?

It seems that like Trump, you're confusing illegal immigrants with legal immigrants.
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Correct, that have much higher rates of welfare usage and contribute much less in taxes.
 
calamity said:
Trumpians will never admit that their hero is a lying POS.
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As I have 'evolved' into being a sort of Trump supporter, I have not changed my mind on his personal shortcomings. He is bombastic, inflammatory, petty, obsessive about his brand, and impulsive. He also has a problem with reality. Whether or not the fellow is a liar or delusional is an open question.

However, avid Trump supporters and haters share one characteristic - they are muttonheads. On this aspect of immigration he isn't lying.
 
maxparrish said:
As I have 'evolved' into being a sort of Trump supporter, I have not changed my mind on his personal shortcomings. He is bombastic, inflammatory, petty, obsessive about his brand, and impulsive. He also has a problem with reality. Whether or not the fellow is a liar or delusional is an open question.

However, avid Trump supporters and haters share one characteristic - they are muttonheads. On this aspect of immigration he isn't lying.
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he isn't correct, either.
 
maxparrish said:
As I have 'evolved' into being a sort of Trump supporter, I have not changed my mind on his personal shortcomings. He is bombastic, inflammatory, petty, obsessive about his brand, and impulsive. He also has a problem with reality. Whether or not the fellow is a liar or delusional is an open question.

However, avid Trump supporters and haters share one characteristic - they are muttonheads. On this aspect of immigration he isn't lying.
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He's exaggerating on immigration. Most immigrants are good people. A few are MS13 types. He seems to paint the whole barrel black.
 
calamity said:
He's exaggerating on immigration. Most immigrants are good people. A few are MS13 types. He seems to paint the whole barrel black.
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None the less, his points survive exaggeration. While most legal immigrants are decent folk, the immigrant cultures of Mexico, Central America, and Russia foster organized crime - not unlike the prior waves of immigrants from sicily and southern Italy (as well as, to a lessor extent, the Irish).

Moreover, Mexican/central american immigration begat second generations; and their children spawn large increases in crime.
 
maxparrish said:
None the less, his points survive exaggeration. While most legal immigrants are decent folk, the immigrant cultures of Mexico, Central America, and Russia foster organized crime - not unlike the prior waves of immigrants from sicily and southern Italy (as well as, to a lessor extent, the Irish).

Moreover, Mexican/central american immigration begat second generations; and their children spawn large increases in crime.
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Trump would be more credible on this if he wasn't himself a money laundering criminal. I guess white, American citizen gangsters are acceptable in this country, especially if they wear a suit and put an R behind their name, preferably while giving lips service to Jesus and saving fetuses.
 
AlbqOwl said:
The poem on the Statue of Liberty was put there in 1886 when the population of the USA was a little over 50 million people. We needed common laborers to build the railroads and highways and stake out homesteads and settle vast empty space in this great land. There were no social services for the immigrants coming and they expected to fend for themselves from the day they arrived. But they all came wanting to be Americans and they respected the American culture.

It is now 2018 and we have 330+ million people and our needs are very different now. Immigration should be offered to those who want to be Americans, who will love our flag and our National Anthem, who will respect our laws and pay their own way when they get here, you know, like the immigration policies in virtually every other developed country in the world?
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First time I ever saw it stated that the US welcomed immigrants because they needed common laborers. And it is peculiar that immigrants then "wanted to be Americans" but now it is OK to speculate that certain immigrants don't want to be Americans or respect the laws. This is stated here without a shred of evidence. PS Lots of born here Americans don't "love" the flag, and/or the National Anthem (which does have four stanzas, and some lyrics that could be considered controversial by rational minds). How would you measure this ability anyway? Which countries demand that immigrants love the national anthem?
 
maxparrish said:
The vast majority of Americans, perhaps exclusive of the slave community, were deeply interested in the Declaration and Constitution. At no time in American history were common folk more engaged, more opinionated, more expressive. I suggest you read Bernard Bailyn's classic work: "The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution".

http://tcpbckup1.yolasite.com/resou...the American Revolution By Bernard Bailyn.pdf

My remark about 50% of the population not being engaged nor considered was referencing the absence of women in these decisions.

I find your link interesting, and thank you for some interesting reading.
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JMR said:
I think you have found a logical way to justify your views on immigration. Situations are always changing, but the fact remains that this country, regardless of the status of its safety nets (which become more frayed daily) is infinitely capable of providing a haven to those who seek it, just as it was 50, 75, 100 years ago.

As to your observation about objectively isolating people more likely to be self sustaining I just answer that is not the point of immigration.

I see an absence of any meaningful data indicating that immigrants who are not doctors or scientists are a drain on the social safety nets.
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Historically speaking we also shut down immigration after each great wave of migration giving them time to assimilate

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
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