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Was Joe Kennedy right about Trump's policies?

Hawkeye10 said:
I claim to be a lefty and I am pretty sure most conservatives around here agree with me so I doubt that they mind.
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I'm also on the Left and Sampson Simpson and others continually call me a "Right wingnut" and the likes. When I proved them wrong pointing to my political compass showing that I'm Left of Center just like I said, their response was to say that means nothing because people can lie on the tests. Like I would go out of my way to take these tests just to lie. lol There really is no pleasing some of these people.
 
He was largely right in that sense, but not exactly either. Trump wants everybody to make off well (usually providing no specifics), then maybe within the same speech or the next day, he wants some ordinary folks to do better and other ordinary folks to come out "losers."

Then he signs bills which *do* pick winners and losers for fairly petty reasons. Portions of the tax bill foolishly targeted blue states while the GOP also had representatives in those districts who said these were bad ideas. Exemptions for off-shore drilling also struck a partisan tone, whereby redder states could be exempt, but blue states could not.

We could go on and on.

But, then there's the immigration package. It picks winners and losers, sure, but when you look at what could have been offered by the White House and what was offered, it's a fairly generous package.

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tres borrachos said:
Nothing. The same thing that Donald Trump knows about the hard time of the working poor. That's why they're both to be discounted when they pretend they do.
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I think he has more insight when it comes to healthcare and how that relates to the working poor. Both he and that entire family "get" addiction, mental health, and disability policy.

It's fascinating to watch a Bush or a Kennedy talk about those things. As I have seen in state politics and lobbying, some things truly come through in family dynasties. It's a matter of what those lessons are that matters. The lessons of the Trumps? Mediocrity and decadence.

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Nap said:
If they try to put him up in 2020, we will likely see Trump for another 4 years. I think the average American is sick of politicians named Clinton, Bush, and Kennedy.
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Kennedy is far too young and underdeveloped for the post, but certainly more experienced than the current office holder.

As far as the dynasties are concerned, I agree with you that Americans want newer last names, but I still consider that one of the dumbest talking points ever. You take a solid, experienced candidate with a last name of dynastic worth, and put them against a non-dynasty candidate with less credentials or understanding of policy and less solid public performances. This talking point would signal that people would take the latter simply because of the last name. A name. Let me repeat that: a name.

Some families produce better leaders, and plenty of the folks who wanted "fresh last names" are also the type of folks who gravitated toward an old dude with no experience and nothing to his worth other than his last name plastered on every package imaginable.

So yeah, Americans want different last names, but a sizable chunk of the American public are morons.

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SonOfDaedalus said:
I feel like he looks like a good and honest person which is a great contrast with Trump. I do think Trump and Republicans are vulnerable because they're boasting about the economy but the rust belt folks aren't seeing the great economy. The reason Obama was reluctant to boast about the economy was because there were so many people in small towns still jobless and feeling left behind.

Democrats need to focus on appealing to the poor white working class on economic grounds. I think Bernie Sandes did that well. I felt that was Joe Kennedy's core message.

I think Joe Kennedy has that name and he's a young honest-looking man.

But I don't think Trump has even the slightest hope of reelection no matter what happens with the economy short of the sky raining money. Every liberal in ever crevice of America will come out and vote out Trump. And Republicans have completely alienated women.

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I find it a little ironic he's behind a broken down car, perhaps shadows of teddy?
 
dobieg said:
Sorry that ship has sailed. If Democrats had paid even half the attention to the poor white working class than they did illegals or letting hairy 40 year old men into the women's bathroom, they wouldn't be staring at the GOP holding the Senate, House and Presidency. All Trump did was focus on the forgotten middle class with things that made sense to them like unfair trade deals, illegal immigration, over regulation and corporate taxes that made it difficult for US companies to compete on the World stage.

It still baffles me how the Left hasn't picked up on this as they still offer almost nothing to the middle class as they're too pre-occupied fighting for illegals. I mean honestly, what do you expect these people to think?
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The sad news is: their traditional source of jobs, like manufacturing and mining, are becoming obsolete. They have to find a way to enter the work force of the 21st century, and that's going to be with retraining, not having government force those jobs to stay here. The Carrier Plant that Trump was so proud of is quietly moving more jobs to Mexico, and that Indiana plant of their is probably going to close in a few years. I bet they won't talk about this on Fox News though.

So the Republicans are telling them what they WANT to hear, but which is unsustainable in the long term. You might as well go back to forcing car manufacturers to manufacture Model T Fords and expect America to remain an economic leader in the world like it was in the past when those cars were being made. Those days are gone. It's a hard truth, and these folks don't want to hear it. That's why they keep voting Republican.
 
ataraxia said:
The sad news is: their traditional source of jobs, like manufacturing and mining, are becoming obsolete. They have to find a way to enter the work force of the 21st century, and that's going to be with retraining, not having government force those jobs to stay here. The Carrier Plant that Trump was so proud of is quietly moving more jobs to Mexico, and that Indiana plant of their is probably going to close in a few years. I bet they won't talk about this on Fox News though.

So the Republicans are telling them what they WANT to hear, but which is unsustainable in the long term. You might as well go back to forcing car manufacturers to manufacture Model T Fords and expect America to remain an economic leader in the world like it was in the past when those cars were being made. Those days are gone. It's a hard truth, and these folks don't want to hear it. That's why they keep voting Republican.
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Many Republicans are selling a fantasy. Many aren't. Just a few years ago it was standard fare for Republicans to say we need to evolve and prepare for the future (much to the irritation of Elizabeth Warren Democrats). Many are still saying we need to look toward retraining and retooling for our economic needs. They just aren't the most populist of Republicans.

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Fiddytree said:
Many Republicans are selling a fantasy. Many aren't. Just a few years ago it was standard fare for Republicans to say we need to evolve and prepare for the future (much to the irritation of Elizabeth Warren Democrats). Many are still saying we need to look toward retraining and retooling for our economic needs. They just aren't the most populist of Republicans.

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The non-populist Republicans, like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, are just trying to watch out for their employers, the Koch brothers. They need the fantasy genre stories the populist ones are selling to the hapless masses to keep cutting taxes for their bosses. Without the fantasy stories, they would have no hope of accomplishing anything.
 
ataraxia said:
The non-populist Republicans, like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, are just trying to watch out for their employers, the Koch brothers. They need the fantasy genre stories the populist ones are selling to the hapless masses to keep cutting taxes for their bosses. Without the fantasy stories, they would have no hope of accomplishing anything.
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If you're looking for high profile Governors, I'd immediately point to Kasich. I'm sure I could come up with others.

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Fiddytree said:
Kennedy is far too young and underdeveloped for the post, but certainly more experienced than the current office holder.

As far as the dynasties are concerned, I agree with you that Americans want newer last names, but I still consider that one of the dumbest talking points ever. You take a solid, experienced candidate with a last name of dynastic worth, and put them against a non-dynasty candidate with less credentials or understanding of policy and less solid public performances. This talking point would signal that people would take the latter simply because of the last name. A name. Let me repeat that: a name.

Some families produce better leaders, and plenty of the folks who wanted "fresh last names" are also the type of folks who gravitated toward an old dude with no experience and nothing to his worth other than his last name plastered on every package imaginable.

So yeah, Americans want different last names, but a sizable chunk of the American public are morons.

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I agree that ultimately it is ridiculous to judge someone based on their name and the negativity towards political families is primarily driven by resentment towards the idea of ruling families. I have to admit I am a little biased against the political families as well, not sure if it is simply because I am not a fan of their politics or the political family concept. I imagine if they aligned politically with me that I wouldn't much care.
 
If Joe Kennedy is who the Democratic Party is going to push then we should definitely get ready for another term of Trump.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
I feel like he looks like a good and honest person which is a great contrast with Trump. I do think Trump and Republicans are vulnerable because they're boasting about the economy but the rust belt folks aren't seeing the great economy. The reason Obama was reluctant to boast about the economy was because there were so many people in small towns still jobless and feeling left behind.

Democrats need to focus on appealing to the poor white working class on economic grounds. I think Bernie Sandes did that well. I felt that was Joe Kennedy's core message.

I think Joe Kennedy has that name and he's a young honest-looking man.

But I don't think Trump has even the slightest hope of reelection no matter what happens with the economy short of the sky raining money. Every liberal in ever crevice of America will come out and vote out Trump. And Republicans have completely alienated women.

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What was with the car in the background?
Not the best backdrop for a Kennedy.
#drownmetoo
 
ataraxia said:
The sad news is: their traditional source of jobs, like manufacturing and mining, are becoming obsolete.
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And what they need is wealth redistribution. They need the government to help them switch over to service sector jobs.

Trump could have offered corporations 0% tax if they locate in these locations. Instead he just gave away these free tax cuts.

A lot of jobs are going to become obsolete. The government is going to have to payout basic income from high taxes on the 1%.
 
zimmer said:
What was with the car in the background?
Not the best backdrop for a Kennedy.
#drownmetoo
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That's a reach. Not only is it so old no one remembers but it has nothing to do with him other than a last name.

In the mean time, the P***ygrabber in Chief was accused by 19 women. #MeToo x 19
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
That's a reach. Not only is it so old no one remembers but it has nothing to do with him other than a last name.

In the mean time, the P***ygrabber in Chief was accused by 19 women. #MeToo x 19
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Democrats like to forget... but a broken down car in the background with a hand sticker on the window... what were they thinking?
#drownmetoo
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Why do you people even bother? Are you put here just to make dems appear smarter and right wingers stupid? 90% of the wealth in this country is with the top 1%. Since the last recession 85% of new wealth has gone to the top 1%. All this boasting of a great economy and stocks is largely going directly into the 1% pockets. There already is class warfare, and the rich have won. And what Republicans just did? Give them even more money, doubling down on the same policies that have lead to the rich winning the class warfare.

He's part of the group with all the wealth, who has gold toilets, you think he gives a **** about any worker in this country who barely gets by on their garbage wages while the people at the top are swimming in money?
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Lol, the ol 1% argument.

Since i left home at age 18 my wealth has grown tremendously, certainly not part of the notorious 1%.

The rich continue to get richer because they continue to do things that make them rich. The poor remain poor because they continue to do things that make them poor.

But im glad you think class warfare from politicians is a good thing, just another example of your stupidity. Btw, eminmem had a net worth of 190 million last year.
 
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The broken down car in the background. :lol:

The only thing missing was a bottle of scotch and some scuba gear.
 
Professor2004 said:
His experience is about where obamas was?
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No, because Joe hadn't served in state government like Obama did before he made the jump to Senate. Obama has that over Joe, and Obama's resume was relatively light.

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Fiddytree said:
If you're looking for high profile Governors, I'd immediately point to Kasich. I'm sure I could come up with others.

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There are a handful of Republicans I still respect. Kasich is certainly one of them. McCain is another (although I am not sure I still can excuse him for unleashing Sarah Palin on this country). Senator Flake. Olympia Snowe.... That's about it.

The rest are either crazy, or just Koch bros employees.
 
zimmer said:
Democrats like to forget... but a broken down car in the background with a hand sticker on the window... what were they thinking?
#drownmetoo
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They were thinking nobody cares. Say hello to your new president. A young good guy running against an old creep. That's assuming the creep is still in office. No way Trump survives 4 years. He barely survived one year.
 
Ah, I decided to look this up. Joe's wife, Lauren Birchfield Kennedy, is a healthcare advocate, seeming to specialize in women and children's healthcare policy (including Medicaid and CHIP).

Makes a lot of sense.

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ataraxia said:
There are a handful of Republicans I still respect. Kasich is certainly one of them. McCain is another (although I am not sure I still can excuse him for unleashing Sarah Palin on this country). Senator Flake. Olympia Snowe.... That's about it.

The rest are either crazy, or just Koch bros employees.
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Well, it read to me like you were viewing Republican advocacy for retooling the American for the 21st Century as being stooges for the Koch Brothers. It felt a bit partisan and a bit assuming of character (and to be honest, the post above doesn't *really* erode that). I think sometimes that's accurate for some people, but if it wasn't for the Trump era, this would still be a standard position Republicans (and some Democrats) would take and it's not necessarily some nefarious plot, but rather an obvious response to technological and economic circumstances.

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Fiddytree said:
Well, it read to me like you were viewing Republican advocacy for retooling the American for the 21st Century as being stooges for the Koch Brothers.

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I don't think you have been keeping up with the issues. That was Hillary Clinton's position, not Trump's or any other Republican.

Clinton has a $30 billion plan to help coal miners, but it got buried by a silly ?gaffe" - Vox

Trump's position was that they keep doing the same things they were doing in the 1950s.
 
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