Jay-Z on Van Jones Show[W:321]

Jaygodmedia said:

Omarosa was only there out of her loyalty during the campaign. Says she writing a book but at this point who the hell cares?

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Considering that the conventional wisdom is that she has many recordings from inside the WH I do.

reinoe said:

That analogy isn't good so I'm hoping that what was really said got lost in translation in that post. However I see Jay-z as a "crazy like a fox" type of individual.

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You say not good. I say insightful. Nice talking with you.

Jaygodmedia said:

Omarosa was only there out of her loyalty during the campaign. Says she writing a book but at this point who the hell cares?

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I know I don't. That woman is crazy. I just wondered if the president replaced his token black person. Or is he just going to let Ben Carson hold the candle?

Hawkeye10 said:

Considering that the conventional wisdom is that she has many recordings from inside the WH I do.

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If she does have recordings that would put trump in some kinda complicated position... Best believe this administration will take care of her.

MateoMtnClimber said:

I meant that association, but you're exaggerating it. I did not imply that that association explains everything about the president, his voters, or the election. That would be a ridiculous generalization.

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Given what you said, it was the generalization that you made.

MateoMtnClimber said:

Van Jones's new show premieres on CNN tonight with Jay-Z as his first guest. I just saw a teaser clip that I can't find on the web yet. Jay was discussing racism with Jones and made an insightful analogy. He said that taking the LA Clippers away from Donald Sterling after his racism scandal was like spraying perfume on a garbage can covered with bugs. It just forced closet racists deeper into their hole. The perfume attracted more bugs. Then we had a super bug. That super bug is the current president. If we had taken out the trash, i.e., engaged racism in a meaningful way on a national basis, we wouldn't have a super bug. The man is brilliant. If the full show approaches the quality of the couple minutes I just saw, it's going to be incredible. I have birthday celebrations to attend, but my DVR is set.

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Acadia said:

Wow, wth?
Sorry for being friendly...yowza!!!:shock:

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My bad. I must have misunderstood your post. I thought you meant that I was talking BS. Those other posters put me on the defensive. Sorry about that.

truthatallcost said:

Having not seen the clip you're referring to, I'm guessing that you edited in the part I've placed in bold font. A clever little way to clean up Jay's statement, and make it appear more thoughtful than it really was.

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No. That's what he said. I'll post the clip if it gets uploaded somewhere.

MateoMtnClimber said:

Van Jones's new show premieres on CNN tonight with Jay-Z as his first guest. I just saw a teaser clip that I can't find on the web yet. Jay was discussing racism with Jones and made an insightful analogy. He said that taking the LA Clippers away from Donald Sterling after his racism scandal was like spraying perfume on a garbage can covered with bugs. It just forced closet racists deeper into their hole. The perfume attracted more bugs. Then we had a super bug. That super bug is the current president. If we had taken out the trash, i.e., engaged racism in a meaningful way on a national basis, we wouldn't have a super bug. The man is brilliant. If the full show approaches the quality of the couple minutes I just saw, it's going to be incredible. I have birthday celebrations to attend, but my DVR is set.

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Harshaw said:

I think if you continue to believe that Trump was elected because of closet racism, you won't even try to understand why he actually was elected. Which means you'll continue to make the mistakes which got him elected. Which includes dismissing those who voted for him as racists.

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Harshaw said:

You made a direct link from the racism of Donald Sterling being "swept under the rug" to Trump being elected.If that isn't what you meant, then what did you mean?

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MateoMtnClimber said:

I meant that association, but you're exaggerating it. I did not imply that that association explains everything about the president, his voters, or the election. That would be a ridiculous generalization.

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Yeah, but, apparently you didn't list every single reason why Trump was elected that you could think of. Therefore, focusing on the one portion of what the rapper said as it relates to the election must necessarily mean that you were saying that the only reason Trump was elected was racism and that that is in fact what you personally believe. It's so obvious!

/sarc. off





I suspect he knows full well that you were referring generally to one of many contributors to Trump's election. When David Duke and various white supremacist groups are praising a candidate and then that candidate says he doesn't know what "white supremacy" even is, let alone who David Duke is, it's undeniable that racists felt empowered by Trump's campaign regardless of the existence or not of any intent by Trump in that regard. Then there are the many campaign incidents, the upsurge in white nationalist protests, focus on speakers, etc., since.

I'm not about to extol Jay-Z's brilliance. It's not particularly difficult to understand that the last couple decades of actively ignoring racism would produce an effect ranging from absolutely neutral (unlikely) to an increase in the acceptability of racism (a bit more likely). And even IF Jay-Z was saying that Trump would not have been elected but for racism (I wouldn't necessarily agree with that if he did mean it), that does not mean that other contributors to his election were absent; it would merely mean that the racism pushed him just the last bit over the line. It most certainly does not mean that that is what you yourself believe, of course.

It wasn't particularly difficult to work out that you were not claiming that racism is the only possible explanation for Trump's election, but were instead focusing on the aspects of the subject you wished to discuss that were relevant to the point you were making. After all, people tend not to read posts that attempt to address all possible things someone might say or think about a given point.....




So, hey. Some of us get what you were saying. Some would like to pretend they don't, to score internet points or something.

Harshaw said:

Given what you said, it was the generalization that you made.

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Saying that absent racism the current president would not have been elected is not the same thing as saying that racism is the only reason the president was elected. I understand your interpretation, but that was not the intention behind my post. I guess I can't speak for Jay-Z.

MateoMtnClimber said:

My bad. I must have misunderstood your post. I thought you meant that I was talking BS. Those other posters put me on the defensive. Sorry about that.

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Whew, thank you! I know I'm new here and have to learn/establish tone.
I meant I wish I could be as unfiltered as Judge Judy sometimes.

Mr Person said:

Yeah, but, apparently you didn't list every single reason why Trump was elected that you could think of. Therefore, focusing on the one portion of what the rapper said as it relates to the election must necessarily mean that you were saying that the only reason Trump was elected was racism.

/sarc. off





I suspect he knows full well that you were referring generally to one of many contributors to Trump's election. When David Duke and various white supremacist groups are praising a candidate and then that candidate says he doesn't know what "white supremacy" even is, let alone who David Duke is, it's undeniable that racists felt empowered by Trump's campaign regardless of the existence or not of any intent by Trump in that regard.

I'm not about to extol Jay-Z's brilliance. It's not particularly difficult to understand that the last couple decades of actively ignoring racism would produce an effect ranging from absolutely neutral (unlikely) to an increase in the acceptability of racism (a bit more likely).

Of course, on the other hand, it wasn't particularly difficult to work out that you were not claiming that racism is the only possible explanation for Trump's election, but were instead focusing on the aspects of the subject you wished to discuss that were relevant to the point you were making. After all, people tend not to read posts that attempt to address all possible things someone might say or think about a given point.....

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Anklebiting again. :roll:

When one says "if not for X, we wouldn't have Y," one is indeed putting the blame for Y on X.

MateoMtnClimber said:

Saying that absent racism the current president would not have been elected is not the same thing as saying that racism is the only reason the president was elected. I understand your interpretation, but that was not the intention behind my post. I guess I can't speak for Jay-Z.

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But it pretty much does. You may not have meant it, but it does say it.

Here's the question -- what do you find compelling in the Jay-Z analogy? What lessons do you take away?

Harshaw said:

Anklebiting again. :roll:

When one says "if not for X, we wouldn't have Y," one is indeed putting the blame for Y on X.

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Just shooting down yet another one of your dishonest trolling angles.

:shrug:





I wouldn't have had to do it if you didn't keep trying to pidgeon-hole people into positions they never took. Ciao, Sherlock.

:2wave:

Mr Person said:

Yeah, but, apparently you didn't list every single reason why Trump was elected that you could think of. Therefore, focusing on the one portion of what the rapper said as it relates to the election must necessarily mean that you were saying that the only reason Trump was elected was racism and that that is in fact what you personally believe. It's so obvious!

/sarc. off





I suspect he knows full well that you were referring generally to one of many contributors to Trump's election. When David Duke and various white supremacist groups are praising a candidate and then that candidate says he doesn't know what "white supremacy" even is, let alone who David Duke is, it's undeniable that racists felt empowered by Trump's campaign regardless of the existence or not of any intent by Trump in that regard. Then there are the many campaign incidents, the upsurge in white nationalist protests, focus on speakers, etc., since.

I'm not about to extol Jay-Z's brilliance. It's not particularly difficult to understand that the last couple decades of actively ignoring racism would produce an effect ranging from absolutely neutral (unlikely) to an increase in the acceptability of racism (a bit more likely). And even IF Jay-Z was saying that Trump would not have been elected but for racism (I wouldn't necessarily agree with that if he did mean it), that does not mean that other contributors to his election were absent; it would merely mean that the racism pushed him just the last bit over the line. It most certainly does not mean that that is what you yourself believe, of course.

It wasn't particularly difficult to work out that you were not claiming that racism is the only possible explanation for Trump's election, but were instead focusing on the aspects of the subject you wished to discuss that were relevant to the point you were making. After all, people tend not to read posts that attempt to address all possible things someone might say or think about a given point.....




So, hey. Some of us get what you were saying. Some would like to pretend they don't, to score internet points or something.

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Thanks for having a brain anyway. And being honest. That poster came into this thread on a mission and is lacking one or both of those things.

Mr Person said:

Just shooting down yet another one of your dishonest trolling angles.

:shrug:





I wouldn't have had to do it if you didn't keep trying to pidgeon-hole people into positions they never took. Ciao, Sherlock.

:2wave:

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Even he said my interpretation was understandable. There was no reason for you to interject yourself into yet another conversation that doesn't concern you. If there's any trolling going on, it's from you.

Acadia said:

Whew, thank you! I know I'm new here and have to learn/establish tone.
I meant I wish I could be as unfiltered as Judge Judy sometimes.

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There are a decent number of jerks in this forum. You'll identify them. Apologies again for the misinderstanding. As far as Judge Judy goes, I have a dangerously thin filter. It gets me into trouble sometimes, but it's an effective tool for communicating. I'm no Judge Judy though, haha.

Harshaw said:

But it pretty much does. You may not have meant it, but it does say it.

Here's the question -- what do you find compelling in the Jay-Z analogy? What lessons do you take away?

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That's not what it says and it's not what I said. You have the benefit of questioning the author. I've told you several times that you are misinterpreting the message. Deal with it.

I think Jay's delivery compelled me more than anything. I really need to get the clip. My summary doesn't do it justice. I don't know if you're a fan of Jay's or have ever listened to his music, but he's a poet. His accent is less than regal, but he has a remarkable way of using language to convey ideas.

MateoMtnClimber said:

Thanks for having a brain anyway. And being honest. That poster came into this thread on a mission and is lacking one or both of those things.

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There was no "mission" nor "dishonesty." I took your post exactly the way you wrote it.

You're still saying that absent the racism, Trump wouldn't have been elected. How is that supposed to be taken?

Basically, you're saying "I'm not saying that Trump was elected because of racism. I'm saying that if there weren't the racism, he wouldn't have been elected." How is that not an honest take on what you said?

MateoMtnClimber said:

That's not what it says and it's not what I said. You have the benefit of questioning the author. I've told you several times that you are misinterpreting the message. Deal with it.

I think Jay's delivery compelled me more than anything. I really need to get the clip. My summary doesn't do it justice. I don't know if you're a fan of Jay's or have ever listened to his music, but he's a poet. His accent is less than regal, but he has a remarkable way of using language to convey ideas.

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I am questioning the author. If it isn't what you meant, which I'm willing to believe, then what did you mean?

MateoMtnClimber said:

Van Jones's new show premieres on CNN tonight with Jay-Z as his first guest. I just saw a teaser clip that I can't find on the web yet. Jay was discussing racism with Jones and made an insightful analogy. He said that taking the LA Clippers away from Donald Sterling after his racism scandal was like spraying perfume on a garbage can covered with bugs. It just forced closet racists deeper into their hole. The perfume attracted more bugs. Then we had a super bug. That super bug is the current president. If we had taken out the trash, i.e., engaged racism in a meaningful way on a national basis, we wouldn't have a super bug. The man is brilliant. If the full show approaches the quality of the couple minutes I just saw, it's going to be incredible. I have birthday celebrations to attend, but my DVR is set.

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Nobody has ever said Jay-Z was intelligent.

Skeptic Bob said:

If you think Jay-Z’s rap is crap then I am going to go out on a limb and guess you probably just aren’t into rap.

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Amen. It's like saying Aretha Franklin is a crappy soul singer.

Jaygodmedia said:

Well I'll say it the current president of the USA is a racist asshole jerk son of a bitch historical horrible President and administration...

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Historical, huh?

He has been in office only a year.

What historical point of view can you take from that?

Harshaw said:

There was no "mission" nor "dishonesty." I took your post exactly the way you wrote it.

You're still saying that absent the racism, Trump wouldn't have been elected. How is that supposed to be taken?

Basically, you're saying "I'm not saying that Trump was elected because of racism. I'm saying that if there weren't the racism, he wouldn't have been elected." How is that not an honest take on what you said?

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Both Person and I already explained it to you.

MateoMtnClimber said:

There are a decent number of jerks in this forum. You'll identify them. Apologies again for the misinderstanding. As far as Judge Judy goes, I have a dangerously thin filter. It gets me into trouble sometimes, but it's an effective tool for communicating. I'm no Judge Judy though, haha.

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Thank you. I am very happy to have found this forum and am trying to wade in carefully, after lurking a bit to get the gist of things.
I think there are a lot of high-caliber folks here and it's not nearly as contentious and ugly as the last forum I was on. I have a bit of a filter issue, too, but hope to be a positive addition to DP.

Acadia said:

I used to watch her all the time. Don't you wish you could cut the b.s. and tell it like it is, too?

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My dream show would be Obama in front of Judge Judy.

She would tell him over and over again...

"UH IS NOT AN ANSWER!"

It would be hilarious.