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Have the so called evangelical christians become nothing but a cult?

independentusa

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If you are wondering why I didn't capitalize Christians in my title, it is because I don't see them as Christians. What I do see is that the so called evangelicals is that they have become a cult who believe neither in being evangelical or Christian ideals. All their churches do is raise money for the owners. They hate the poor people of this country and others and they pander to one of the least Christian presidents this country has ever seen. They give "mulligans" for any of Trump's poor behavior as long as he does as they want. They even say so. And they are almost all white Anglo Saxon protestants, what we used to call WASP's. Another term for racist in the south. And yet the conservatives continue not to only support them, but to do their bidding. Another case of the GOP base. And if the GOP goes along with the dismantling of the separation of church and state, these same people will soon be running our government. I have heard all of the worry about our government being taken over by Sharia Law, which is about to happen right after I win two Super Ball picks in a row, but don't seem worried about the evangelicals forcing us under their pure Christian laws. It makes me shudder just thinking about it.
 
Surprise, surprise. Liberals tearing down Christianity while salivating over Muslims who are against everything they stand for.

It really is head scratching.
 
As long as they stay preaching to the choir or being politically active, they do not bother me.
However....
Once on a fishing trip with friends in Virginia, we ran into a few guys in a rural diner all dressed in camo thinking they were going on a hunt.
We got to talking with them and found out they were going to a training camp.
YES, a training camp.
They were members for the CSA. The Christian Sword and Arm (CSA) of the Lord group.
Now, we all know what CSA really means to them.
We gave them a polite nod, finished our breakfast and got the hell out of there.
I think this group would pass as "evangelicals".
Now THIS bothers me.
 
I wouldn't say "cult" I'd say "cults". While the reformation was a good thing, a lot of protestant churches make up the rules as they go. The prosperity gospel is the biggest load of **** ever and it's become enmeshed in US protestant churches.
 
Surprise, surprise. Liberals tearing down Christianity while salivating over Muslims who are against everything they stand for.

It really is head scratching.

You've stumbled into the wrong thread.
 
As long as they stay preaching to the choir or being politically active, they do not bother me.
However....
Once on a fishing trip with friends in Virginia, we ran into a few guys in a rural diner all dressed in camo thinking they were going on a hunt.
We got to talking with them and found out they were going to a training camp.
YES, a training camp.
They were members for the CSA. The Christian Sword and Arm (CSA) of the Lord group.
Now, we all know what CSA really means to them.
We gave them a polite nod, finished our breakfast and got the hell out of there.
I think this group would pass as "evangelicals".
Now THIS bothers me.

It's as if they've forgotten that Jesus Himself said (in so many words) to follow the law of the land (when He said to pay taxes to Rome), and followed the law of the land even up to His death on the cross. At NO time did He ever countenance arming oneself against the government or even resisting the government. The only time that Jesus ever seemed to show His temper was to drive the moneylenders out of the synagogues. In other words, by His actions, Jesus wanted Christians to make sure that the Church stayed true, and also to follow the law of the land.

Today's protestants have truly forsaken Jesus' teachings, substituting social and political dogma in the place of His teachings.

And yes, I am a strong Christian.
 
Surprise, surprise. Liberals tearing down Christianity while salivating over Muslims who are against everything they stand for.

It really is head scratching.

Jesus said to pay one's taxes (and taxes were much worse then than now). Jesus told Peter to put away his sword instead of protecting Him against the government. Jesus did not resist the Roman government in any way, nor did He countenance violence - remember "turn the other cheek"? He followed the law of the land up to His death on the cross. The only time He showed His temper was when He chased out the moneylenders, for buying, selling, lending, and gambling do not belong in the House of the Lord.

What's head-scratching is how the right-wing evangelicals can read the Bible and yet still ignore the teachings of Christ that are 180-out from what right-wing evangelicals believe today.

And yes, I'm a strong Christian, and the Church of which I am a member (and yes, we are in almost every state nationwide) does not concern itself with American politics. Unlike right-wing evangelicals and protestants, we take the words of Jesus as of greater importance than personal political beliefs.
 
If you are wondering why I didn't capitalize Christians in my title, it is because I don't see them as Christians. What I do see is that the so called evangelicals is that they have become a cult who believe neither in being evangelical or Christian ideals. All their churches do is raise money for the owners. They hate the poor people of this country and others and they pander to one of the least Christian presidents this country has ever seen. They give "mulligans" for any of Trump's poor behavior as long as he does as they want. They even say so. And they are almost all white Anglo Saxon protestants, what we used to call WASP's. Another term for racist in the south. And yet the conservatives continue not to only support them, but to do their bidding. Another case of the GOP base. And if the GOP goes along with the dismantling of the separation of church and state, these same people will soon be running our government. I have heard all of the worry about our government being taken over by Sharia Law, which is about to happen right after I win two Super Ball picks in a row, but don't seem worried about the evangelicals forcing us under their pure Christian laws. It makes me shudder just thinking about it.

I am not going to excuse those churches that exist purely for fun and profit and/or to push this or that sociopolitical agenda though the evangelicals certainly do not have a corner on that.

But it has been my observation that it is mostly those 'evil evangelicals' who without prejudice or discrimination or hope of reward of any kind:

1. Show up with boats or first aid kids or shovels or whatever is needed in all natural disaster situations.

2. Who are running the thrift shops, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, and ministries for the poorest and neediest of society.

3. Who are risking their very lives going into hostile countries to address the desperate--think World Vision, et al.

4. Who are doing hands on work among the world's most impoverished people.

5. Who are running orphanages, ministering in leper colonies, setting up and managing homes for unwed or homeless pregnant women, battered women and children, and taking wheel chairs, walkers, and other life improving devices to people who cannot afford things like that all over the world.

6. Who are risking imprisonment or worse to carry a message of love, hope and encouragement to some of the world's most oppressed people as well as providing affordable, safe, education to tens of thousands or maybe millions of children who otherwise would not have had opportunity to be educated. (I will add the caveat that the Church has not done so well in higher education as many of the universities around the world that were founded for all the people have become too expensive to any but the most affluent.)

But if you can show a similar track record among any Atheist or secular or mainline Church organizations, go for it. But be prepared to spend a very long time to find much of anything to compare.
 
Jesus said to pay one's taxes (and taxes were much worse then than now). Jesus told Peter to put away his sword instead of protecting Him against the government. Jesus did not resist the Roman government in any way, nor did He countenance violence - remember "turn the other cheek"? He followed the law of the land up to His death on the cross. The only time He showed His temper was when He chased out the moneylenders, for buying, selling, lending, and gambling do not belong in the House of the Lord.

What's head-scratching is how the right-wing evangelicals can read the Bible and yet still ignore the teachings of Christ that are 180-out from what right-wing evangelicals believe today.

And yes, I'm a strong Christian, and the Church of which I am a member (and yes, we are in almost every state nationwide) does not concern itself with American politics. Unlike right-wing evangelicals and protestants, we take the words of Jesus as of greater importance than personal political beliefs.

I could care less what Jesus said. I'm not religious and bible thumpers annoy me.




I just find it incredulous that liberals go out of their way to castigate Christians while they defend Muslims whom a large majority hate them and everything they stand for(gays, women as equals, etc,.)
 
I am not going to excuse those churches that exist purely for fun and profit and/or to push this or that sociopolitical agenda though the evangelicals certainly do not have a corner on that.

But it has been my observation that it is mostly those 'evil evangelicals' who without prejudice or discrimination or hope of reward of any kind:

1. Show up with boats or first aid kids or shovels or whatever is needed in all natural disaster situations.

2. Who are running the thrift shops, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, and ministries for the poorest and neediest of society.

3. Who are risking their very lives going into hostile countries to address the desperate--think World Vision, et al.

4. Who are doing hands on work among the world's most impoverished people.

5. Who are running orphanages, ministering in leper colonies, setting up and managing homes for unwed or homeless pregnant women, battered women and children, and taking wheel chairs, walkers, and other life improving devices to people who cannot afford things like that all over the world.

6. Who are risking imprisonment or worse to carry a message of love, hope and encouragement to some of the world's most oppressed people as well as providing affordable, safe, education to tens of thousands or maybe millions of children who otherwise would not have had opportunity to be educated. (I will add the caveat that the Church has not done so well in higher education as many of the universities around the world that were founded for all the people have become too expensive to any but the most affluent.)

But if you can show a similar track record among any Atheist or secular or mainline Church organizations, go for it. But be prepared to spend a very long time to find much of anything to compare.

I think the OP should have specified "religious right" rather than evangelicals in general, although most of the "religious right" is in fact, evangelical in nature.

Here's a list (from 2013) showing how much money (that's power/speech per the SCOTUS) they have:
https://www.alternet.org/belief/10-most-dangerous-religious-right-organizations


If you don't like that source, there are plenty more.

These are political action/power groups. Yes, they want to change laws in order to force everyone to live according to their interpretation of their book, just as a loud minority of Muslims want to. To me, the religious right is more of a problem than radical jihadi Islam because they have managed to use the Republican party to assume many positions of political and judicial power. That's in America, right now. Not in the ME or Europe.
 
If you are wondering why I didn't capitalize Christians in my title, it is because I don't see them as Christians. What I do see is that the so called evangelicals is that they have become a cult who believe neither in being evangelical or Christian ideals. All their churches do is raise money for the owners. They hate the poor people of this country and others and they pander to one of the least Christian presidents this country has ever seen. They give "mulligans" for any of Trump's poor behavior as long as he does as they want. They even say so. And they are almost all white Anglo Saxon protestants, what we used to call WASP's. Another term for racist in the south. And yet the conservatives continue not to only support them, but to do their bidding. Another case of the GOP base. And if the GOP goes along with the dismantling of the separation of church and state, these same people will soon be running our government. I have heard all of the worry about our government being taken over by Sharia Law, which is about to happen right after I win two Super Ball picks in a row, but don't seem worried about the evangelicals forcing us under their pure Christian laws. It makes me shudder just thinking about it.

Evidence for any of this?
 
Surprise, surprise. Liberals tearing down Christianity while salivating over Muslims who are against everything they stand for.

It really is head scratching.

The OP stated this was not about Christians in general, but a subset that only dresses themselves up as Christians. You mention Muslims, but there was no mention of Muslims in the OP.

Clear your head and read it again, maybe?
 
I could care less what Jesus said. I'm not religious and bible thumpers annoy me.




I just find it incredulous that liberals go out of their way to castigate Christians while they defend Muslims whom a large majority hate them and everything they stand for(gays, women as equals, etc,.)

We're not "castigating Christians" - the right-wing evangelicals and protestants are not following the commands of Christ, and so cannot be Christian.

I am Christian and as such I do not hold Muslims as being on the path to salvation - we do NOT agree with Islam. That being said, if an entire demographic is being accused of committing crimes when the crimes are in actuality only committed by a relative few of them, is it not my Christian duty to stand up for that demographic and say that it's wrong to accuse the many for the crimes of the few? The Right accuses all Islam of supporting terrorism, of being "at war" with Christianity...when in actuality, those Islamic nations that are politically stable are MORE peaceful than America. For instance, look at Indonesia - it's a third-world nation, and it's the MOST-populous majority-Muslim nation in the entire world (85% Sunni)...and by the numbers, the homicide rate in Indonesia than it is in even the safest state in America (New Hampshire) - and yes, I can give you the solid references on request.

And it's not just Indonesia - same thing goes for Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Jordan, and Singapore. The stable Islamic nations have more peaceful societies than we do. It's their unstable nations where there's problems. In other words, it was never a matter of their religion, but of poverty and social disorder.

THAT, sir, is the truly Christian way to look at it - to not judge them for their religion (for Apostle Paul told us not to judge), but instead search for the real reasons for the wars and terrorism.

One last thing - one does wish that y'all would stop thinking that terrorism is an Islamic thing. All terrorism is, is a tool used by those who cannot compete with the overwhelming military capacity of the state, and so try to commit what violence they can (for whatever reason) with the tools they have at hand. If y'all would check, with the sole exception of 9/11, terrorism was FAR worse in the 70's.
 
Surprise, surprise. Liberals tearing down Christianity while salivating over Muslims who are against everything they stand for.

It really is head scratching.

Once Righties learn how to read they might begin to see the real world. The OP did not tear down Christianity or say anything about Muslims. His post is a lament for the loss of Christian values among people overtaken by political extremism. In this case abandoning Christian principles to support a political leader who is morally corrupt.
 
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I think the OP should have specified "religious right" rather than evangelicals in general, although most of the "religious right" is in fact, evangelical in nature.

Here's a list (from 2013) showing how much money (that's power/speech per the SCOTUS) they have:
https://www.alternet.org/belief/10-most-dangerous-religious-right-organizations


If you don't like that source, there are plenty more.

These are political action/power groups. Yes, they want to change laws in order to force everyone to live according to their interpretation of their book, just as a loud minority of Muslims want to. To me, the religious right is more of a problem than radical jihadi Islam because they have managed to use the Republican party to assume many positions of political and judicial power. That's in America, right now. Not in the ME or Europe.

And in all due respect, most of that is pure nonsense. I would guess that those who would be classified as coming from evangelical churches are in a small minority among the Republicans in Congress. They certainly are among Republicans as a whole:
https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/09/15/religion-and-race-among-democrats-and-republicans/
 
Once Righties learn how to read they might begin to see the real world. The OP did not tear down Christianity or say anything about Muslims. His post is a lament for the loss of Christian values among people overtaken by political extremism.

His post was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to denigrate any Christian whom voted for Trump and question their morals and intelligence because they didn't vote for your corrupt idiot who is now wondering aimlessly in the woods mumbling to herself. .
 
It's as if they've forgotten that Jesus Himself said (in so many words) to follow the law of the land (when He said to pay taxes to Rome), and followed the law of the land even up to His death on the cross.
Erm... Yeah, that isn't actually what that particular episode was about, or a good representation of Christ's own views on political authority.

Christ lived at a time when there was no real separation between Church and State -- that is a much more modern view. At that time, the Roman Emperor was seen as a sort of deity, with his own personal cult and exalted status (despite the antics of emperors like Nero and Caligula, almost certainly exaggerated by their enemies). In some cases, they were even seen as miracle workers; Vespasian was said to have miraculously healed the sick (sound familiar?). Similarly, the King of Judea was traditionally a position with both political and religious significance, including the support of the Temple (which, at that time, was the central religious authority for the Jews.) Jesus grew up in an occupied land, lorded over by Roman outsiders who were causing all sorts of socioeconomic disruptions in Judea. Rome did allow Jews to maintain their religion, but treated the Jews as second-class citizens even in their own land. Roman governors were actually cruel and dismissive of the populace; the depiction of Pilate in the biographical gospels is, to put it mildly, at odds with every scrap of historical information we have about him and his fellow governors. Worse yet, the Romans co-opted the Temple and Jewish leaders. Many Jews thought that the Temple had become corrupt, resulting in competing movements such as the Essenes and Pharisees.

Rebellions were also common in ancient Judea around that time -- and often violently suppressed by the Romans. In addition to the two major revolts after Jesus' life, there were several messianic uprisings around 4 BCE, including in Sepphoris. Less than a decade later, the Zealots attacked the Romans at Sepphoris, and after they were defeated, the Romans crucified 2000 of them. Sepphoris was only a few miles from Nazareth, so there is no question Jesus heard about these events.

Christ's own mission was radical -- he basically wanted to toss the bums out of the Temple, rewrite the Covenant, and bring the Kingdom of God back to the world. While this does not seem radical to us today (as we don't live under suppressive Roman rule), it did then.

And what of rendering unto Caesar? If you read the passage, it's pretty clear what is happening. The Pharisees know that Jesus does not recognize Roman rule, and that an open proclamation of a rejection of Rome will get Jesus arrested and executed. They ask Jesus whether it is right to pay the Imperial tax. Jesus reacts angrily, as he knows it's a trap. He demands to see the coin in which the tax should be paid, which is the Roman (i.e. outsider/foreign) denarius, with a depiction of the Emperor on it. Jesus is basically saying "this coin is worthless, so Caesar can have it back. The ultimate authority is God, not Caesar." However, he said it in a way that did not openly insult the Emperor, thus he escaped the trap.

Keep in mind that in that era, coins were not just a means of exchange; they were often a form of propaganda and a political identifier. Coins often announced changes in the Imperium or lauded critical victories. One of the first things the Jews did during the First Revolt was to print their own coins, where the year of the revolt was "Year 1."

For hundreds of years after the execution of Jesus, Christians were in revolt against Roman rule and suppression. It was only much later (in the time of Augustine iirc) when the debate changed, as more Romans adopted Christianity. Theologians and church leaders wanted the official status, support and legitimacy denied to them for so long. To do that, they had to drop the adversarial and prosecuted position, and accept Roman rule, and become a part of it. As a result, the Church reinterpreted not just passages like "Render unto Caesar," it changed or lost the earlier oppositional context of Jesus' ministry.

In modern times, almost all of that political context is lost. This is due to a general lack of historical awareness, as well as concerted efforts to remove all of that political context from Jesus. How can he make statements intended to last thousands of years, when he was merely reacting to local political events...?
 
And in all due respect, most of that is pure nonsense. I would guess that those who would be classified as coming from evangelical churches are in a small minority among the Republicans in Congress. They certainly are among Republicans as a whole:
https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/09/15/religion-and-race-among-democrats-and-republicans/

Sometimes I do refer to them generically as evangelicals, but "religious right" is more fitting. You will never have a member of congress declare a religious affiliation of "religious right" and few will specify "evangelical", just as there are very few churches with those labels. Looking at declared religious affiliations is therefore disingenuous.

These folks have a lot of power, most via involvement in the Republican party. The Reagan campaign sold a chunk of the GOP to them (via anti-gay and anti-abortion planks in the party platform) in exchange for mailing lists. The fundies were effectively sidelined for a number of years, but they are a major player now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right

Donald Trump isn't the least bit religious, yet 85% of self-professed evangelicals voted for him. For some reason, they don't care if he cheats on his wives. Remember their slogan, "Character Counts" from the Bill Clinton era? Well, it turns out they make a lot of exceptions. For themselves and for people who give them money and power.


These are some of the folks from that first link I posted, which you tried to dismiss:

WASHINGTON — The people who filled the pews of St. John’s Episcopal Church for a private service on the morning of the inauguration were a testament to the ascendancy of the religious right in Donald J. Trump’s Washington: James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family; Tony Perkins, the president of the Family Research Council; James Robison, the Christian television preacher.


Right after Mr. Dobson blessed Mike Pence, and just before the congregation sang “Onward, Christian Soldiers,” Mr. Robison took to the pulpit and asked Mr. Trump to rise.

For six minutes, the president-elect stood as Mr. Robison heaped praise on him, extolling his ability to inspire a crowd, his choice of the deeply religious Mr. Pence as a running mate and his wisdom in selecting a White House team that he deemed “the greatest cabinet I’ve ever seen.”

“You are, in fact, an answer to prayer,” Mr. Robison said, according to a video taken from the back of the church, where every president has attended services since it opened in 1816. “I think you have been designed and gifted by God for this moment.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/us/politics/trump-religious-conservatives.html

More info:

https://au.org/blogs/wall-of-separa...precedented-access-and-influence-on-the-trump
 
Erm... Yeah, that isn't actually what that particular episode was about, or a good representation of Christ's own views on political authority.

Christ's own mission was radical -- he basically wanted to toss the bums out of the Temple, rewrite the Covenant, and bring the Kingdom of God back to the world. While this does not seem radical to us today (as we don't live under suppressive Roman rule), it did then.

And what of rendering unto Caesar? If you read the passage, it's pretty clear what is happening. The Pharisees know that Jesus does not recognize Roman rule, and that an open proclamation of a rejection of Rome will get Jesus arrested and executed. They ask Jesus whether it is right to pay the Imperial tax. Jesus reacts angrily, as he knows it's a trap. He demands to see the coin in which the tax should be paid, which is the Roman (i.e. outsider/foreign) denarius, with a depiction of the Emperor on it. Jesus is basically saying "this coin is worthless, so Caesar can have it back. The ultimate authority is God, not Caesar." However, he said it in a way that did not openly insult the Emperor, thus he escaped the trap.

Keep in mind that in that era, coins were not just a means of exchange; they were often a form of propaganda and a political identifier. Coins often announced changes in the Imperium or lauded critical victories. One of the first things the Jews did during the First Revolt was to print their own coins, where the year of the revolt was "Year 1."

For hundreds of years after the execution of Jesus, Christians were in revolt against Roman rule and suppression. It was only much later (in the time of Augustine iirc) when the debate changed, as more Romans adopted Christianity. Theologians and church leaders wanted the official status, support and legitimacy denied to them for so long. To do that, they had to drop the adversarial and prosecuted position, and accept Roman rule, and become a part of it. As a result, the Church reinterpreted not just passages like "Render unto Caesar," it changed or lost the earlier oppositional context of Jesus' ministry.

In modern times, almost all of that political context is lost. This is due to a general lack of historical awareness, as well as concerted efforts to remove all of that political context from Jesus. How can he make statements intended to last thousands of years, when he was merely reacting to local political events...?

As you know, Jesus was innocent of the crime of which He was accused. Did He fight against Rome, against what was obviously a gross miscarriage of justice? No. Did He resist arrest? No. At no time did Jesus EVER advocate going against the law of the land; nor - with the exception of His anger at the moneylenders in the synagogue - did He ever advocate violence of any type. And when it came to deciding between the rich and the poor, we all know whose company Jesus preferred, to the consternation of the Pharisees.

In modern political terms, Jesus was closest to democratic socialism, for His words in many ways echo socialist principles.

That being said, of course Jesus - being our Savior and the Son of God - is probably little concerned with political titles, but is more concerned with right conduct, with doing what is right before God, with doing that which leads to salvation.
 
Surprise, surprise. Liberals tearing down Christianity while salivating over Muslims who are against everything they stand for.

It really is head scratching.

I am not tearing down Christians. I am a Christian and a Catholic and a Trustee of my church. What I am saying is that so called evangelicals have become a cult. I totally believe in CHristians, just not the cultists that have taken over the evangelicals.
 
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