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When Homeschooling Goes Bad

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Oh FFS, stop going off on extreme tangents.
Possessing the exclusive power to educate a child is an awesome responsibility, which carries with it some very serious consequences if done in a dangerous manner.
Just as you wouldn't program a car's safety equipment to floor the accelerator when its cameras sense a wheelchair in a crosswalk, likewise why would anyone want to allow a parent to program their child to attack or be traumatized by people with beliefs outside their own tight knit little circle?

You can go ahead and defend extremist outlier cultists all you like, but that's precisely what you will end up looking like.
There are still surviving Branch Davidians who, twenty-five years after the Waco incident, still feel David Koresh was the Messiah and they still believe he was entitled to nineteen wives, including some as young as twelve, and conjugal rights with other parishioner's wives.

If you're going to operate a home school, the states have the right to send someone to check out your lesson plans, and observe the atmosphere and environment you operate in from time to time. These children are eventually let loose on society, and society has the right to have a clue as to what's been put into their little heads.
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No the state doesnt have that right. They wish to invade a persons home they can justify their position to a court of law and secure writ.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Oh FFS, stop going off on extreme tangents.
Possessing the exclusive power to educate a child is an awesome responsibility, which carries with it some very serious consequences if done in a dangerous manner.
Just as you wouldn't program a car's safety equipment to floor the accelerator when its cameras sense a wheelchair in a crosswalk, likewise why would anyone want to allow a parent to program their child to attack or be traumatized by people with beliefs outside their own tight knit little circle?

You can go ahead and defend extremist outlier cultists all you like, but that's precisely what you will end up looking like.
There are still surviving Branch Davidians who, twenty-five years after the Waco incident, still feel David Koresh was the Messiah and they still believe he was entitled to nineteen wives, including some as young as twelve, and conjugal rights with other parishioner's wives.

If you're going to operate a home school, the states have the right to send someone to check out your lesson plans, and observe the atmosphere and environment you operate in from time to time. These children are eventually let loose on society, and society has the right to have a clue as to what's been put into their little heads.
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Don't pick on my reply if you can't defend what it was in direct reference to. HAND
 
PirateMk1 said:
The government must follow the supreme law of the land. Period. They wish to enter the home they need to justify it to a court of law and secure writ.
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I agree. As does Ikari.

So then I see Calamity's point about the hypocrisy on abortion. How do they invade the privacy between Dr and woman to acknowledge pregnancy or prevent abortion?

Sorry, it just became more and more apparent in the comments. If not proper here, I will remember the foundation for the comments at the appropriate time and sub-forum later.
 
Lursa said:
Please elaborate on how the state could control the information that a parent can give their kids while being homeschooled?

While there are prescribed curricula and minimum requirements, there's nothing to stop parents from including anything else they choose.

Is there?
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The government could outlaw homeschooling.
 
BlackMatters said:
I'd like to see the law on that one and how often it's enforced or the actual circumstances.

Again, I don't support a parent making this decision, but they should have the option vs. the government stepping in to force an education that the parent doesn't want their kid to have.

Im not talking about purposefully keeping them ignorant to everything, I really don't know how that would be possible without breaking some other endangerment laws, but rather teaching them what they think they need to know.
As I suggested in the scenario of a parent electing to go with "no education", I believe the parent is either extreme hippy or possibly in a cult to purposely limit knowledge.
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lol..."educating your kids should be voluntary."

Now that truly is the most silly thing I ever heard a conservative/libertarian or whatever ever make.
 
School administrators can and do target kids. Dont gotta like it but they do.
Parental involvement is a huge shield to prevent this abuse.

Again my neighbor has his kid doing high school online because of, best I can tell, administrators more worried about things other than ALL the kids
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Oh FFS, stop going off on extreme tangents.
Possessing the exclusive power to educate a child is an awesome responsibility, which carries with it some very serious consequences if done in a dangerous manner.
Just as you wouldn't program a car's safety equipment to floor the accelerator when its cameras sense a wheelchair in a crosswalk, likewise why would anyone want to allow a parent to program their child to attack or be traumatized by people with beliefs outside their own tight knit little circle?

You can go ahead and defend extremist outlier cultists all you like, but that's precisely what you will end up looking like.
There are still surviving Branch Davidians who, twenty-five years after the Waco incident, still feel David Koresh was the Messiah and they still believe he was entitled to nineteen wives, including some as young as twelve, and conjugal rights with other parishioner's wives.

If you're going to operate a home school, the states have the right to send someone to check out your lesson plans, and observe the atmosphere and environment you operate in from time to time. These children are eventually let loose on society, and society has the right to have a clue as to what's been put into their little heads.
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So in your brain,

The responsibility to educate a child rest with the government not the parents.

Homeschool equals an extermist cult.

Homeschool parents are presumed to be guilty of a crime.


Sounds awesome. Cause the government is sooo good at.....well.....uhm....wait ill think of something and get back.
 
calamity said:
I've never been a fan of giving parents total control of their kids. I have been a major fan of parents being forced to send their kids to public schools where certain minimum standards of humanity are required of parents or someone will call the cops.

Here's why.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...e/ar-AAuQZhC?ocid=spartandhp#image=AAuKPJw|12
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It is not only that as a problem. In my town there was a woman who had six kids, all being "home schooled". Instead of teaching them, she sent them out to sell light bulb, cookies, pizza and anything else she could get her hands on. When it finally caught up to her, the oldest who should have been in the seventh grade, had to be placed in the second grade as he could barely read and write, The rest of her children were just as far behind. The way it was discovered that they were getting little schooling was when she had them involved in the local schools sports, as is allowed in my state for home schooled kids.
 
BlackMatters said:
So in your brain,

The responsibility to educate a child rest with the government not the parents.

Homeschool equals an extermist cult.

Homeschool parents are presumed to be guilty of a crime.


Sounds awesome. Cause the government is sooo good at.....well.....uhm....wait ill think of something and get back.
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Well, since you consider educating kids should be optional and not a state requirement, I'm not sure your opinions on this matter are credible.
 
Last edited:
I just want to know how in the hell the world made it to the 20th century without public education?
 
calamity said:
Well, since you consider educating kids should be optional and not a state requirement, I'm not sure you're opinions on this matter are credible.
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"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
 
Middle_Ground said:
No I'm suggesting we use the resources already available. Every child has a budget that follows them from k to 12th grade. We have the resources the people that are already mandatory reporters my suggestion is to use them.
Children are our most precious resources we should do whatever we can to protect them. Wouldn't you agree?
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Exactly, get rid of the drama queen exaggeration. No one is advocating "government invasions".
It's simply a matter of "We require that you educate your kids, and if you want to DIY, there are MINIMUM STANDARDS.
If you wish to comply with these minimum standards and not have your kids declared truants or uneducated, we need to know if your curriculum and lesson plans meet the minimum standards."

And it's not the big bad evil "Fed'uhl gubmint", it's the state government, or perhaps the county government, or maybe even the school district itself, whatever works best.

And in keeping with child welfare and safety, if you're running your own school, it's accepted that you must provide a minimum standard environment that allows your children to learn. If you're running a brothel or a drug den, or your home is covered floor to ceiling in fecal matter, it might not pass that minimum standard, and Child Welfare might make some suggestions, as they are wont to do in any child welfare situation where a home is unsafe for kids.

It is such a PITA trying to negotiate with extremists who are checking for evil G-men everywhere.
 
BlackMatters said:
I just want to know how in the hell the world made it to the 20th century without public education?
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Prior to the 20th century, treating people (including within our own families) like animals or worse was commonplace.
 
calamity said:
Some do. Others are chained to their beds and fed once a week. That's why it should be mandatory that homeschooled children attend a state sanctioned school for a minimum of X hours per week. That way, professionals can assess their health and welfare and monitor their educational progress.
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If you're going to go all Orwellian, why stop there? Why not make all children wards of the state with their parents being only their custodians?
 
independentusa said:
It is not only that as a problem. In my town there was a woman who had six kids, all being "home schooled". Instead of teaching them, she sent them out to sell light bulb, cookies, pizza and anything else she could get her hands on. When it finally caught up to her, the oldest who should have been in the seventh grade, had to be placed in the second grade as he could barely read and write, The rest of her children were just as far behind. The way it was discovered that they were getting little schooling was when she had them involved in the local schools sports, as is allowed in my state for home schooled kids.
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You're offering an exception rather than the rule. The Turpin family (California "House of Horrors" family) are the outer-extreme exception.

I'll offer an anecdote of my own: In my community there was a young man who had been home-schooled who was working at 15 toward his electrical engineering degree (and not paying a dime to do so). He'd completed Calc I and II at 12 at the local community college, and his parents felt that they couldn't hold him back academically any longer.

Free from the time-wasting distractions, a solid 3-4 hours a day of focused scholarship can produce students whose education is far stronger than their public and even private-school peers. I've worked with many 16-year old homeschoolers who were far more mature and academically prepared. Oh, and thank-you note-writing polite too.
 
nota bene said:
If you're going to go all Orwellian, why stop there? Why not make all children wards of the state with their parents being only their custodians?
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Yeah because requiring kids to be educated is so 1984.
 
Neomalthusian said:
Prior to the 20th century, treating people (including within our own families) like animals or worse was commonplace.
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Wait, you’re saying that it was commonplace for parents to treat their children like animals, or worse, before the advent of the public school system?
 
Lursa said:
No, it's not legal now. They cannot opt out of 'any' education.

They either have to enroll their kids in a school or homeschool them.

So...".You think it should be legal for a parent to opt out of any education for their kids?"...my question, still stands.

Because if not 'any,' then it means none.
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Lursa said it's against the law to choose, then admitted there is no law enforcing the government training (I mean education
 
calamity said:
I've never been a fan of giving parents total control of their kids. I have been a major fan of parents being forced to send their kids to public schools where certain minimum standards of humanity are required of parents or someone will call the cops.

Here's why.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...e/ar-AAuQZhC?ocid=spartandhp#image=AAuKPJw|12
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To compare this case with normal homeschooling is obscene.

There's a very long list of cases where public school teachers and officials abuse students. To focus on homeschooling over child abuse just shows a rather extreme collectivist bias.
 
LowDown said:
To compare this case with normal homeschooling is obscene.

There's a very long list of cases where public school teachers and officials abuse students. To focus on homeschooling over child abuse just shows a rather extreme collectivist bias.
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Well, since this case involves abusive parents who are homeschooling their children and not teachers abusing students, your post is not really relevant. But, do feel free to start a thread about that.
 
calamity said:
Well, since this case involves abusive parents who are homeschooling their children and not teachers abusing students, your post is not really relevant. But, do feel free to start a thread about that.
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He's correct -- the situation has to be put into perspective in order to come to an honest analysis. If homeschool children are not abused on a higher scale than are public school children, you have no cause to rail against homeschooling. At least not when it comes to abuse.
 
HowardBThiname said:
He's correct -- the situation has to be put into perspective in order to come to an honest analysis. If homeschool children are not abused on a higher scale than are public school children, you have no cause to rail against homeschooling. At least not when it comes to abuse.
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Please cite an example of a public school student chained to a bed and underfed for almost their entire life.
 
calamity said:
Please cite an example of a public school student chained to a bed and underfed for almost their entire life.
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Many public school students have suffered much, much worse. Here's a case of abuse of a public school child that went on for years and no one helped her. Being a student in public school didn't save her. It took a beating that sent her to the ER to finally get help for her:
Even before Maya Ranot ended up badly cut in a pool of blood in her kitchen, something was obviously wrong. Her weight had dropped to 58 pounds, extremely low for a 12-year-old. She had bruises and cuts. She told classmates she was being abused. Then she landed in the emergency room, her face swollen; dirty and emaciated.

At home, neighbors noticed neglect. Maya’s stepmother treated her more like a servant than a daughter, they said. Maya swept the front porch as her stepsiblings played. She washed dishes as her stepmother watched a movie. She wore flip-flops in winter.

“We know she wasn’t happy and she wasn’t eating,” one neighbor, Sunmattie Singh, 58, said. “She seemed like she was growing down instead of growing up. She was shrinking.”
------snip-----
Neighbors would ask Maya about her scratches and bruises. She fell, she would tell them, or scratched herself. At one point, Sunmattie Singh said, she asked Mr. Ranot what was wrong with his daughter. “He said, ‘Because Maya is a jealous person,’ ” she recalled. “I said, ‘In what way?’ He said: ‘I can’t buy clothes for everybody. And if I buy for the others and I don’t buy for her, she gets very jealous.’ ”

On March 31, Mr. Ranot hit Maya with a baseball bat, the criminal complaint says.

By then, Maya was in the sixth grade and had moved to a third school. In late March, Maya told her classmates she was being abused. They told the teacher. When a child welfare worker interviewed Maya, she said that “she fell on toys and a sibling threw a toy at her,” according to a law enforcement official. The police were not called.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/06/nyregion/missed-signs-in-a-bloodied-girls-abuse-case.html

Here's another one -- another public school child that slipped under the radar and nearly died because of it:

Last December, they stood inside a bedroom in a Brighton rehabilitation facility, visiting with Haleigh Poutre, a 13-year-old girl once deemed so hopelessly brain-damaged that judges approved the removal of her life support.

-------snip------

Throughout Haleigh’s childhood, doctors and social workers often treated unproven assumptions as accepted facts: Haleigh was a sex abuse victim. Haleigh had a self-destructive response to the sexual abuse, a kind of “post-traumatic stress disorder.” Haleigh somehow gave herself every one of the bruises and cuts on her body that clinicians meticulously documented over the years.

-------snip-------

As new wounds appeared on Haleigh’s body, many neighbors, parents, and teachers in Westfield continued to see Strickland as a compassionate caretaker of a troubled child.
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https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...eigh-poutre/fgTaEv2QlbSUxCnKAFhbXJ/story.html


And yet another public school student who was abused of a period of years, and, although teachers reported it, nothing was done to save him. He was tortured for years and finally murdered. Public school didn't help this child, either"

Shocking just-released official documents show that the day California boy Gabriel Fernandez died — at age 8 — he had a fractured skull, three broken ribs, BB pellets embedded in his chest and groin, cigarette burns on his skin and teeth knocked out of his mouth.

The newly revealed Department of Children and Family Services documents show a broad pattern of horrifying child abuse missed by the system until the Palmdale boy was finally killed last month.

-----snip-----

Now his mother, Pearl Fernandez, and her boyfriend, Isauro Aguirre, who allegedly beat the woman’s son over several years, have been charged with torture and murder and are each held on no bail.

-----snip-----

Teachers, too, saw signs of abuse and reported it. Gabriel had in the past written about contemplating suicide, and teachers saw bruises on his face from being shot by a BB gun.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...missed-torture-murder-death-article-1.1371360
 
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