To be honest, no one has answered Trump's question: Why don't we get more people from Norway?

Maybe because they don't want to take a step down in their standard of living?

DIKSAKBAL said:

Maybe because they don't want to take a step down in their standard of living?

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Pretty much; why leave one of the best places to live on earth to go languish under the rule of an insufferable narcissist and bought politicos in a de facto plutocracy that exists in a state of relative barbarism?

Flipping the script, the US is a '****hole' compared to Norway.

I read somewhere the idea that nations have personalities not unlike people.

If so, they claimed, the U.S. is like an aging rock n' roll star, unwilling to give up the spotlight, whether they still have the means to retain it or not. As likely to suicide in a blaze of glory as sober up and start managing themselves like adults.

By that standard, I'd say Norway is the bespectacled accountant that is comfortable knowing they are building for the future, and aren't very interested in seizing the limelight or having much impact on the greater world.

Just as with people, you're going to find a variety of opinions on which is the better approach,

Well, but wait just a second now....actually, no, you pretty much nailed it. Well done! :applaud

DIKSAKBAL said:

Maybe because they don't want to take a step down in their standard of living?

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People like Trump imagine America is a paradise where even europeans desperately want to enter. The truth is only people from poor countries want to come here. And our immigrants from Africa and other poor countries do very well compared to American citizens.

According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher -- slightly more than immigrants from East Asia. Nigerian immigrants are especially educated, with almost two-thirds holding college degrees -- a significantly higher percentage even than Chinese or South Korean immigrants. African immigrants are also very likely to hold advanced degrees, many of which are earned at U.S. universities. By many measures, African immigrants are as far ahead of American whites in the educational achievement as whites are ahead of African-Americans.

That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

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https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s-

But you have to understand that racism is an irrational belief. Racists are immune to facts. They're motivated by emotion. That emotion is hate.

You can throw all the statistics you want at them and their minds won't change.

Generally when people move to another country it is because they want to better their life. Now, that can mean different things for different people. Some places are better to start a business. Some have better health care. Some have less taxes. Some have better weather. Some places are cheaper and you can stretch the money you already have out much longer. And some are just happier places to be.

People in Norway are generally pretty happy compared to Americans. It might be easier to start a successful business in America than Norway but in Norway the ramifications of your business failing are not as catastrophic as they are in America.

Meanwhile, places like Mexico actually receive a lot of immigrants from more developed countries after they have retired and just want a less hectic place with nicer weather where they can settle down and increase the buying powere of their nest egg by 2,3, or 4 times.

Just depends.

Here is a repeat of an idea put up in a previous post, this time from the Right: "It is not clear why Norwegians would leave their ordered and civilized country for the social chaos, racial violence, and degraded culture of America, but never mind." (From https://fredoneverything.org/ ).

DIKSAKBAL said:

Maybe because they don't want to take a step down in their standard of living?

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wonder how fast that would change if our "friend" Putin decided he wanted to annex that area of the world

would the liberals cry havoc, and send in the army and navy?

I know that the Nordic countries of the world have almost zero defense and rely on us and NATO for their protection

What happens if we stopped being the worlds police force? Would others countries still maintain that high standard? Or would they have to make some of the same sacrifices that we make for them

Think on it....

Surrealistik said:

Pretty much; why leave one of the best places to live on earth to go languish under the rule of an insufferable narcissist and bought politicos in a de facto plutocracy that exists in a state of relative barbarism?

Flipping the script, the US is a '****hole' compared to Norway.

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Sadly, its true, and becoming even more ****tier and ****tier. Our poor education, poor healthcare, obscene rates of imprisonment and poverty are pathetic in a country as rich as ours

This rap is spot on

DIKSAKBAL said:

Maybe because they don't want to take a step down in their standard of living?

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Maybe it's because Europeans are not allowed to immigrate to the US in the same manner as those from "****hole" countries.

Some years ago, my family and I hosted a 16 yr old exchange student from Germany who told me he and his family were trying to immigrate to the US. He said, and I know this is anecdotal, but he said, they (his family) must first pay money for the privilege of being placed in a lottery system. 500 names were drawn annually. Immediate family members ONLY were allowed to take the next step in immigration. Which meant background checks.

He said his family could not afford the fee for being in the lottery system year after year because the odds were slim they would be selected. Now, my wife, who recently went to Norway, traveled up and down the place, talked to a lot of people there. What she found was, there are many, many people there who would love to immigrate, but can't because of the restrictions they face.

Does this apply to every country, no. Obviously.

Surrealistik said:

Pretty much; why leave one of the best places to live on earth to go languish under the rule of an insufferable narcissist and bought politicos in a de facto plutocracy that exists in a state of relative barbarism?

Flipping the script, the US is a '****hole' compared to Norway.

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Fine. Go eat pickled fish three times a day.

Norway is a great country. It’s also almost 100% white, with zero diversity. I thought liberals were against that?

chuckiechan said:

Fine. Go eat pickled fish three times a day.

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Norwegians are generally rich enough to eat whatever they want; pickled fish is pretty decent though.

DIKSAKBAL said:

Maybe because they don't want to take a step down in their standard of living?

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By the way, if you run the rankings adjusted for inequality (i.e. you disinclude the insanely distortive influence of the ultra-rich on the HDI rankings because no one cares how they live) the differential is considerably worse:

Sampson Simpson said:

Sadly, its true, and becoming even more ****tier and ****tier. Our poor education, poor healthcare, obscene rates of imprisonment and poverty are pathetic in a country as rich as ours

This rap is spot on

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That was really good. I'm genuinely impressed. Thanks for sharing.

The Man said:

Norway is a great country. It’s also almost 100% white, with zero diversity. I thought liberals were against that?

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I would rather live in Haiti than Norway just because of the climate. Also, if you're middle class or wealthy in Haiti you have a very comfortable life. You build any house you want in countryside and easily afford a cook and maid. You're can travel to all the other carribean islands for getaways. They have good music and nice weather.

The Thomas Crown Affair was filmed in Haiti

But of course. It's called "Gated Community Liberalism". And all the people living in such gated communities -- you'll find them everywhere in the Third World, and in countries on their way to being Third World -- would no doubt make fine immigrants.

SonOfDaedalus said:

That was really good. I'm genuinely impressed. Thanks for sharing.

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Agreed, quite good.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I would rather live in Haiti than Norway just because of the climate. Also, if you're middle class or wealthy in Haiti you have a very comfortable life. You build any house you want in countryside and easily afford a cook and maid. You're can travel to all the other carribean islands for getaways. They have good music and nice weather.

The Thomas Crown Affair was filmed in Haiti

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Haiti, also zero diversity. That’s a bad thing, no?

SonOfDaedalus said:

But you have to understand that racism is an irrational belief. Racists are immune to facts. They're motivated by emotion. That emotion is hate.

You can throw all the statistics you want at them and their minds won't change.

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You have just described the typical Trump supporter to a "T".


Given his belief that he is still a "Player", Trump's fascination with Norwegians has more to do with their female "attributes" than their intellectual abilities.

The Man said:

Haiti, also zero diversity. That’s a bad thing, no?

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America is a uniquely diverse country. That's what makes America great.

Doug1943 said:

But of course. It's called "Gated Community Liberalism". And all the people living in such gated communities -- you'll find them everywhere in the Third World, and in countries on their way to being Third World -- would no doubt make fine immigrants.

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Immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean are not that liberal. They often hold very socially conservative views regarding issues like gay marriage. My extremely religious Haitian brother-in-law voted for Bush because of gay marriage. I don't know if he voted for Trump. A lot of Haitians voted for Trump. I guarantee you none will again. And maybe a lot of Black conservatives are figuring out that conservatives don't care about them.

SonOfDaedalus said:

America is a uniquely diverse country. That's what makes America great.

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America has been very lucky, and indeed unique.

When the Europeans got here, there was an indigenous population, but they were rather quickly overrun. If we had a population which was, say, 40% American Indian, we wouldn't be celebrating 'diversity' -- we'd be more like Sri Lanka.

Most of our immigrants were from Europe, and were more civilized than we were. And, fortunately, we got little bits and pieces of Europe: some Italians, some Jews, some Germans, etc etc... So everyone could melt into the pot after a couple of generations. We all looked alike, and were 'Christians', and no one really took their particular brand of 'Christianity' seriously, except as a general cultural thing, which made for a Protestant Catholic divide for a while, but there were never enough Catholics to really make a problem -- if there had been, we might have more tension.

. Even the Jews now have a fifty percent outmarriage rate.

Blacks and whites have not assimilated with each other, sadly. The economic/cultural differences are too great, apparently. So here is our big 'diversity failure'. The Latinoes are somewhere in between ... they seem to be slowly melting into the big mass, but not without plenty of tensions on the way.

And above all, we've been relatively prosperous. A whole continent to exploit, after the original owners were pushed into concentration camps, sorry, tribal areas. No one to threaten us with invasion, so after the Civil War, all our wars were fought elsewhere. After the Europeans devastated each other, we become Top Dog in the world. In 1945 we had not just a plurality, but the majority of the world's productive forces.

Wonderful ... an impregnable fortress-home for liberal democracy, a city on a hill.

Could that change?

You could imagine unlikely (or not) scenarios in which it could: bring in a couple of hundred million people from sub-Saharan Africa, or the Muslim world, and it would for sure.
Plunge us into a long economic depression -- the impetus for the success of the Nazi Party in Germany -- and it might.

Or let the bottom half of the American population, including a substantial white component, come to believe that they are destined to remain relatively poor while the middle class streaks away from them in prosperity -- then you'll have the grounds for a genuine fascist movement.

But probably, we won't suffer much from 'diversity' in the coming decades. We'll always have the "It's all the White Man's Fault" complainers from among the Unsuccessful: it's the path to a successful career, paradoxically, for some people, given the deep liberal desire for self-flagellation.

Our very economic success has given rise to a new generation of future rulers who are utterly self-absorbed, and not ready to become a responsible ruling class. The snowflake generation is going to wreak havoc on our traditional institutions, starting with -- as they already have -- the military. But they'll probably not completely destroy them.

Our real problem is this: we're rapidly (in historical terms) becoming Number Two in the world, and our replacement is a 'Communist' dictatorship that doesn't even use the Latin alphabet. How will we adjust?

Trump's victory is just the first example of how our downward slide is going to give birth to all kinds of bizarre phenomena with unpredictable consequences.

So it's going to be a very interesting 21st Century. No chance of seeing that old Spanish saying, "May no new thing arise" fulfilled.

It won't necessarily be a catastrophe, especially if we can avoid a big war: maybe Iran and China and Russia will become liberal democracies. Then all will be well.

Anyway, 'diversity' is no doubt going to prove to be a problem in the US over the next few decades, especially if we don't have generalized prosperity, but probably not the worst of our problems -- our real problem will be trying to make sure economic prosperity is spread over the broad mass of the population. Given that, we can weather a lot of storms. Without it -- look out!

In fact, we would probably do ourselves a favor, in competition with China which has four times our population, by taking in a hundred million more immigrants over the next decade -- ideally some from here, some from there, as we did with the Europeans -- but taking steps to see that they integrate rapidly, without forming large ghettoes. Look to authoritarian but successful Singapore to see how this is done.