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So then, what is a reasonable DACA/Border deal look like?

jimbo said:
Why do we need a random lottery for diversity? Seems to me to be an excuse to allow some in we have already rejected for cause.

Same with family exceptions. Why? Shouldn't we be choosing based on what we need?
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I agree but i think there are so many families that are here that are trying to get their foreign families in that you dont want to exclude them from ever voting for your party again. Family ties and family values and community is a good thing and i dont think you can argue that its not.
As for diversity lottery its already the law. They take the top 5 countries who got the most visa and exclude them from the list and the computer randomly generate 50,000 visas. The thought was to get a more diverse group of immigrants and to keep the american dream alive for foreigners.
 
Vetplus40 said:
I listened to SHS tells the WH press corps the list of what DJT calls compromise and could hardly keep from laughing out loud. Her list of "compromise" being EVERYTHING Trump wants that he isn't going to get. If memory serves, I seem to remember compromise being both sides giving a little.

Now, in the spirit of compromise, what can you folks live with on this issue?
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This is my first post on this forum.

I did not hear what Sarah Huckabee Sanders said in the above referenced statement, but I have given this some thought. I start from the agreement on four pillars: DACA, border security, chain migration and immigration lottery.

DACA:

  • Future DACA stopped
  • Existing DACA kids allowed to stay in country indefinitely, with current and then three-five year review for employment and criminal behavior.
  • Existing DACA may apply for citizenship but through regular process. From the back of the line.

Border Security:

Big chunk of money for wall. Maybe 1/4 total estimated cost. (I was not a huge fan of wall until latest Trump stance on spans where geography is not a natural barrier.)

Chain Migration:
Spouse and minor children only

Lottery:

End altogether

****
In part two I would like mandatory e-verify and merit-based immigration.
 
Mycroft said:
That "bipartisan bill" didn't abide by his few conditions. That's why he shot it down.

The Dems will shoot themselves in the ass if they make this about a spending bill.
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He already knew what was in the bill when he said this 2 days before he shot it down.

"I think my positions are going to be what the people in this room come up with.," he said. "I am very much reliant on the people in this room. I know most of the people on both sides; have a lot of respect for the people on both sides, and my -- what I approve is going to be very much reliant on what the people in this room come to me with. I have great confidence in the people. If they come to me with things that I'm not in love with, I'm going to do it, because I respect them."
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There will be no Dem votes for any spending bill unless a DACA fix is included. The American people are demanding it.
 
That point has been debated. The same congress that ratified the 14th amendment further clarified that point, and there was no practice resembling birthright citizenship until 1866. A good article on it is here.
 
iguanaman said:
He already knew what was in the bill when he said this 2 days before he shot it down.


There will be no Dem votes for any spending bill unless a DACA fix is included. The American people are demanding it.
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My understanding is that Trump was referring to the group in that meeting. Then a small subset of that group came up with a bill that the larger group would not have agreed to.
 
jdog21 said:
I agree but i think there are so many families that are here that are trying to get their foreign families in that you dont want to exclude them from ever voting for your party again. Family ties and family values and community is a good thing and i dont think you can argue that its not.
As for diversity lottery its already the law. They take the top 5 countries who got the most visa and exclude them from the list and the computer randomly generate 50,000 visas. The thought was to get a more diverse group of immigrants and to keep the american dream alive for foreigners.
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First, I'm not all that interested in whether or not the American dream is kept alive for foreigners. I'm interested in the American dream being kept alive for my family. I know how the lottery works.

Why should a person granted immigration status then be allowed to pick and choose 8 or 10 more future immigrants just because? If mommy wants to follow you, let her fill out her own papers and get in line.
 
azgreg said:
I would like to see a path to legal residency for DACA recipients that may lead to citizenship. For border security I would prefer a high tech approach as opposed to a wall.
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High tech like surveillance equipment?
 
jimbo said:
Why do we need a random lottery for diversity? Seems to me to be an excuse to allow some in we have already rejected for cause.

Same with family exceptions. Why? Shouldn't we be choosing based on what we need?
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Why? Should we exile people who are already here but we find useless?
 
Absentglare said:
High tech like surveillance equipment?
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Yep. Example:

https://www.engineering.com/Designe...ol-System-Could-Deploy-Drones-on-its-Own.aspx

As the United States expands surveillance technologies on, above and below its 1,900-mile-long border with Mexico, operating them effectively grows more challenging.
Systems and industrial engineers at the University of Arizona are building a framework for border surveillance that uses artificial intelligence, based on realistic computer simulations, to integrate data from different sources and respond in real time.

"Our goal is to devise a system to most effectively, efficiently and safely deploy border patrol resources," said Young-Jun Son, professor and head of the UA Department of Systems and Industrial Engineering and principal investigator of the project.

With some unmanned aerial vehicles at the border starting at $18 million USD apiece, their performance has implications for taxpayers as well as national security.
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iguanaman said:
He already knew what was in the bill when he said this 2 days before he shot it down.


There will be no Dem votes for any spending bill unless a DACA fix is included. The American people are demanding it.
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???

LOL!!

Okay. I guess you think Trump is clairvoyant or a mind reader or something. He knew what they were going to present to him before they talked to him.
 
azgreg said:
Yep. Example:

https://www.engineering.com/Designe...ol-System-Could-Deploy-Drones-on-its-Own.aspx
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This is something I could get behind. I'm not big on The Wall myself but recognize that its better than nothing. This though would be far more preferable to me. Along with a few other things like requiring e-verify for all work applications, rental applications, bank accounts while signing up for bank accounts, car rental and buying applications, and a few others. The best way to end illegal immigration is to make it hard for them to get what they are wanting.
 
Absentglare said:
Why? Should we exile people who are already here but we find useless?
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I'm not sure of your point. Are you talking about future applicants or illegals or citizens?
 
jimbo said:
First, I'm not all that interested in whether or not the American dream is kept alive for foreigners. I'm interested in the American dream being kept alive for my family. I know how the lottery works.

Why should a person granted immigration status then be allowed to pick and choose 8 or 10 more future immigrants just because? If mommy wants to follow you, let her fill out her own papers and get in line.
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While i agree with the sentiment there is some evidence that a purely merit based system also hurts american citizen wages and stagnates poor and middle class wages. Plus the increase in produce prices. This thread is also about a compromise that 9 democratic senators have to vote yes on. So sticking to the purely Trump side of the argument doesnt further the discussion.
 
jimbo said:
Why do we need a random lottery for diversity? Seems to me to be an excuse to allow some in we have already rejected for cause.

Same with family exceptions. Why? Shouldn't we be choosing based on what we need?
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I dont know what you mean by family exceptions but i have no problem with bringing family members here if vetted.

If a young genius wants to build a life here for him and his family i think we should make some allowanves to accomidate that

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jimbo said:
I'm not sure of your point. Are you talking about future applicants or illegals or citizens?
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Citizens. If you think citizenship requires merit, what's to stop us from disqualifying people who are born here like, say, "anchor babies"?
 
Absentglare said:
Very interesting link, thank you!

I couldn't agree more with the sentiment. A big wall is a fixture that is easy to adapt to, while a system of ground and aerial surveillance could be very difficult to avoid.
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I perferr landmines, trip wires, armed drones, poisioned water stations, etc... but in the spirit of compromise im ok with trying the wall

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Vetplus40 said:
I listened to SHS tells the WH press corps the list of what DJT calls compromise and could hardly keep from laughing out loud. Her list of "compromise" being EVERYTHING Trump wants that he isn't going to get. If memory serves, I seem to remember compromise being both sides giving a little.

Now, in the spirit of compromise, what can you folks live with on this issue?
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The compromise is a willingness to accept a reasonable change in existing immigration law in order to accommodate the DACA kids if Congress will pass funding for the border wall and end chain migration. That is both sides compromising on something. As it is, the Democrats are not willing to compromise on anything but are threatening to shut down the government if the President doesn't acquiesce to their demands.
 
Absentglare said:
Citizens. If you think citizenship requires merit, what's to stop us from disqualifying people who are born here like, say, "anchor babies"?
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Im all for amending the constitution to no longer give anchor babies automatic cirizenship. Its an antiquated law designed to help the children of slaves. Its outlived its usefullness.

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trouble13 said:
I dont know what you mean by family exceptions but i have no problem with bringing family members here if vetted.

If a young genius wants to build a life here for him and his family i think we should make some allowanves to accomidate that

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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If a young genius wants to come and build a life and we happen to need a young genius, then we already have provisions in place. And we generally need young geniuses. If his immediate family comes along, I've got no problem.

What I'm talking about is chain migration. One member gets here and then is allowed to move a bunch of family to the head of the line.
 
Absentglare said:
Citizens. If you think citizenship requires merit, what's to stop us from disqualifying people who are born here like, say, "anchor babies"?
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Anchor babies is another issue entirely. We're stuck with those here now. As we are with our own citizens, good or bad. That does not mean the parents of the anchor babies get a pass.
 
jimbo said:
If a young genius wants to come and build a life and we happen to need a young genius, then we already have provisions in place. And we generally need young geniuses. If his immediate family comes along, I've got no problem.

What I'm talking about is chain migration. One member gets here and then is allowed to move a bunch of family to the head of the line.
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I kinda assumed thats what you meant but i felt like it was an important distinction to nail down.

Automatic chain migration is stupid and its being weaponized against us. Thats gotta be stopped.

However im not opposed to offering doctors and engineers the opportunity to provide a better life for their family if they agree to provide us services. In a sense i view that as an enticement.

Im guessing you and i dont disagree on this.



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jimbo said:
Anchor babies is another issue entirely. We're stuck with those here now. As we are with our own citizens, good or bad. That does not mean the parents of the anchor babies get a pass.
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I'm still not understanding your issue.

Merit is NOT a requirement to be a citizen. You're arguing that it should be. Now, do you only apply this merit requirement to select groups, or does it apply to everybody?

Because i would find it hilarious if we revoked the citizenship of conservatives who wouldn't meet their own expectations for immigrants.
 
jdog21 said:
This is the way I think it should be broken down:

1-Citizenship for DACA
2-Immediate funding for 1300 miles of Trump wall

Agree with 1
Number 1 nope 2000 miles of electronic surveillence ,trip wires, drones, more people to monitor electronic surveillence. I think walls are a waste of money.

1-Potection status for DAPA
2-Ending chain migiration, replacing with merit based

Agree with 1
Number 2 stop calling in chain migration call it what it is family migration. But either way I think it will be a mute point in a few years. When the scientist, mathmetician, doctor etc can't bring his wife and kids with him then they will just go elsewhere where they are welcome.

1-Protection status for TPS
2-E-verify for all employers who have a business employing more then 40 people.

1 stop tps completely either they are residents or not. Don't allow anyone in if after vetting you can't give resident status they shouldn't be allowed in.
E-verify should be for every company that issues a w2 whether its 1 employee or 1 million


I still want 700 miles of double fencing funded from the secure border act of 2006. And Kate's law care to bargin for something so I can get those?

Fencing or any other physical barrier is a waste of money we need to stop looking back and looking forward to technology
Kate's Law as I understand it is fine by me
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......
 
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