Trump denies he said "sh**holes." But this time there are witnesses that prove he's just a liar.

Chomsky said:

Unfortunately what you want to pass-on as comparison, is irrelevant deflection from the topic at hand.

And in addition, your "paradise" comment is a straw-man argument and an additional deflection. Neither of which are going to further your position in a debate.

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Rogue Valley said:

In a January 9 televised meeting with leaders of both parties, Trump stated he will sign whatever bipartisan immigration reform bill lands on his desk.



Trump caught hell for this from his base, many of whom are openly racist and confederate lovers.

So on 11 January when presented with a bipartisan agreement, Trump says he won't sign it and refers to certain nations as ****holes.

It's no secret that Trump is a an opportunist and a racist. All Haitians have AIDS. Mexicans are criminals and rapists. Nigerians live in huts. Hispanic US judges are unqualified. etc.

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mike2810 said:

To you it is irrelevant and deemed a deflection.
I have no need to further my position. If you don't know all politicians lie and use disparaging words at times, that is your issue not mine.

Trump was out of line in his choice of words. Clear enough for you?

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Chomsky said:

Yep, Trump screwed-up here due to his usual incompetence.

He also cut-out those words from the official White House transcript. In other words, he doctored the transcript! :doh

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SonOfDaedalus said:

1. He's the POTUS insulting hundreds of nations many of whom are our partners in the war on terror.

2. The president's comment is idiotic. People to immigrate from Norway or other wealthy nations. People don't leave their culture and language unless their home country has serious problems. The wave of immigrants we had after WW2 was because Europe was mostly destroyed. We had a wave of Irish during the Potato Famine. Without immigration from poor countries there would be no immigration. Do you understand this?

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Mr Person said:

“Why are we having all these people from ****hole countries come here?” Trump said, according to these people, referring to countries mentioned by the lawmakers. . . . “Why do we need more Haitians?” Trump said, according to people familiar with the meeting. “Take them out.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1ac729add94_story.html?utm_term=.e860fb24d1b8

One of the sources who was briefed on the conversation quoted him as saying: “Why do we want all these people from Africa here? They’re ****hole countries ... We should have more people from Norway.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...reject-trumps-immigration-offer-idUSKBN1F11QK



I think you understand it's not about the word, but about the sentiment. He wants people from Norway (white, affluent - highest GDP per capita in fact), not from poor countries in Africa, which tend to have brown or black folk.

Yet on DP, people do the playing-stupid routine to defend him. Why don't Trump supporter-defenders just admit what's really going on here? Or is it too much fun to play obtuse, wait for someone to point out what we all know is going on here, and then start complaining about the "race card"?


Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-Ill.) said the comments “will shake the confidence that people have” in the ongoing immigration policy talks. “Democrats and Republicans in the Senate made a proposal. The answer is this racist outburst of the president. How can you take him seriously?” Gutiérrez said. “They [Republicans] don’t believe in immigration — it’s always been about people of color and keeping them out of this country.” Rep. Cedric L. Richmond (D-La.), chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said on Twitter that Trump’s remarks “are further proof that his Make America Great Again Agenda is really a Make America White Again agenda.”


Even House Speaker Paul Ryan, in rare comments critical of the president, called the comment “very unfortunate” and “unhelpful.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/12/trump-****hole-comment-aides-react-337961

“Following comments by the President, I said my piece directly to him yesterday. The President and all those attending the meeting know what I said and how I feel,” said Graham, one of a handful of lawmakers present for the Oval Office meeting. “I’ve always believed that America is an idea, not defined by its people but by its ideals. The American people will ultimately judge us on the outcome we achieve, not the process which led to it.”

https://nypost.com/2018/01/12/graham-says-he-confronted-trump-over-comments/




Even Ryan and Graham get it....

:doh

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SonOfDaedalus said:

1. He's the POTUS insulting hundreds of nations many of whom are our partners in the war on terror.

2. The president's comment is idiotic. People to immigrate from Norway or other wealthy nations. People don't leave their culture and language unless their home country has serious problems. The wave of immigrants we had after WW2 was because Europe was mostly destroyed. We had a wave of Irish during the Potato Famine. Without immigration from poor countries there would be no immigration. Do you understand this?

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ReverendHellh0und said:

In order to make that claim you have to take "chain migration is racist" and "US Troops act like nazis" dick durban's word over trumps, cotton, and perdue's word. It's a case of he said she said and no one knows for sure so to say you do without actual proof is quite the leap.

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NonConformer said:

Even his Republican backers admit he's an asshole.

But, they say, "He's OUR asshole!"

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bubbabgone said:

Yeah. I get it too.
Trump was saying that as a Country we can't have unlimited immigration regardless of the country of origin, ability to assimilate, or what they have to offer other than dependence.
It's unfortunate that he said it the way he did but it would have been characterized as racist no matter how it was said.

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Chomsky said:

Is there unequivocal unimpeachable proof? No. There rarely is.

But there are multiple witnesses attesting to this, and so far no witnesses denying it.

Then we have Trump's track-record of disparaging remarks, along with his long history of lying. So I'm making a judgment, here. This is not a court of law, but a court of public opinion. I think there's ample evidence he said these things. You may feel otherwise.

But just because an event cannot be proven in black & white, does not mean it cannot be likely to have occurred. Life rarely is presented in terms of definitive proof.

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Mr Person said:

He didn't say the words he said? He said something completely different and you know it, because you were there along with Graham?

:lamo






Enough with the lie, deny, deflect routine.

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ReverendHellh0und said:

Oh the reach around your ilk give graham for making an ambiguous statement.......

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Mr Person said:

“Why are we having all these people from ****hole countries come here?” Trump said, according to these people, referring to countries mentioned by the lawmakers. . . . “Why do we need more Haitians?” Trump said, according to people familiar with the meeting. “Take them out.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1ac729add94_story.html?utm_term=.e860fb24d1b8

One of the sources who was briefed on the conversation quoted him as saying: “Why do we want all these people from Africa here? They’re ****hole countries ... We should have more people from Norway.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...reject-trumps-immigration-offer-idUSKBN1F11QK



I think you understand it's not about the word, but about the sentiment. He wants people from Norway (white, affluent - highest GDP per capita in fact), not from poor countries in Africa, which tend to have brown or black folk.

Yet on DP, people do the playing-stupid routine to defend him. Why don't Trump supporter-defenders just admit what's really going on here? Or is it too much fun to play obtuse, wait for someone to point out what we all know is going on here, and then start complaining about the "race card"?


Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-Ill.) said the comments “will shake the confidence that people have” in the ongoing immigration policy talks. “Democrats and Republicans in the Senate made a proposal. The answer is this racist outburst of the president. How can you take him seriously?” Gutiérrez said. “They [Republicans] don’t believe in immigration — it’s always been about people of color and keeping them out of this country.” Rep. Cedric L. Richmond (D-La.), chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said on Twitter that Trump’s remarks “are further proof that his Make America Great Again Agenda is really a Make America White Again agenda.”


Even House Speaker Paul Ryan, in rare comments critical of the president, called the comment “very unfortunate” and “unhelpful.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/12/trump-****hole-comment-aides-react-337961

“Following comments by the President, I said my piece directly to him yesterday. The President and all those attending the meeting know what I said and how I feel,” said Graham, one of a handful of lawmakers present for the Oval Office meeting. “I’ve always believed that America is an idea, not defined by its people but by its ideals. The American people will ultimately judge us on the outcome we achieve, not the process which led to it.”

https://nypost.com/2018/01/12/graham-says-he-confronted-trump-over-comments/




Even Ryan and Graham get it....

:doh

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ReverendHellh0und said:

There are 3 witnesses denying it.

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TrumpPence2020 said:

That's right. During the asshole's first year the stock market has boomed, GDP growth has improved and unemployment is at an almost 17-year low

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ReverendHellh0und said:

There are 3 witnesses denying it. it's he said she said, and the media has been caught over and over again lying moreso than trump (and thats a feat).

durbin is not a respectable character he's lower than trump in my mind.

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Chomsky said:

No, the three are saying they don't remember him saying it. They did not deny it.

There's a big difference. And yes, their non-denial denial is part of my calculus in believing Trump did indeed say these things.

Don't conflate "deny" with "don't remember". Especially, when coming from the mouth of a politician!

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SonOfDaedalus said:

lol. Does the Kenyan get any credit for the low unemployment and DOW numbers? Let's look at the facts....

You forgot to add that the deficit is bigger. Trump took out America's credit card and maxed it out to give himself and the rest of the elite free money.

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Rogue Valley said:

No Congresscritter attending denied it. They cowardly stated "I don't recall."

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Chomsky said:

No, the three are saying they don't remember him saying it. They did not deny it.

There's a big difference. And yes, their non-denial denial is part of my calculus in believing Trump did indeed say these things.

Don't conflate "deny" with "don't remember". Especially, when coming from the mouth of a politician!

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TrumpPence2020 said:

Half the country are either baby-killers and perverts or they support baby-killers and perverts so.... .....yah, half the country.

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Mr Person said:

A mix of lie and deny. Well, color me shocked. Anyway, there are multiple sources confirming that Trump said those words. But hey, I guess they must all be part of the vast liberal conspiracy too.

:roll:


As I had the misfortune to have to point out to another Trump defender:



But lie, deny, and deflect if you must.

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Mr Person said:

A mix of lie and deny. Well, color me shocked. Anyway, there are multiple sources confirming that Trump said those words. But hey, I guess they must all be part of the vast liberal conspiracy too.

:roll:


As I had the misfortune to have to point out to another Trump defender:



But lie, deny, and deflect if you must.

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