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Coulter slams Trump.

ataraxia said:
For most of them, their only crime being, of course, their immigration status.
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And being present here illegally is a crime!
 
ataraxia said:
Many of the DACA kids were 3 years old when they came. Dangerous criminals!
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And their parents broke the law. They shouldn't have done that.
 
ataraxia said:
The punishment on the children is not justified.
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Our law makes no such exemption for children. If you are not authorized to be here you are deported. Besides, these children are also citizens of the state of their parents. It's not as if we're creating a large group of stateless people.
 
phattonez said:
Our law makes no such exemption for children. If you are not authorized to be here you are deported. Besides, these children are also citizens of the state of their parents. It's not as if we're creating a large group of stateless people.
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These children know no other country other than the US. I guess legally, you are correct. We could do it. But it just seems far too draconian and psychopathic. I guess it's just a matter of taste and temperament. I just am not seeing some frightening crisis that requires such frightening and draconian measures. Relax, man. Our economy is doing great. Crime rates are falling. There is no overwhelming national security problem. Why are you this frightened that you would be willing to hurt people this badly?
 
ataraxia said:
These children know no other country other than the US. I guess legally, you are correct. We could do it. But it just seems far too draconian and psychopathic. I guess it's just a matter of taste and temperament. I just am not seeing some frightening crisis that requires such frightening and draconian measures. Relax, man. Our economy is doing great. Crime rates are falling. There is no overwhelming national security problem. Why are you this frightened that you would be willing to hurt people this badly?
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Respect for law matters, and selective enforcement of selective laws leads to no respect for any laws. We have 11 million + (it's clearly much more) people here illegally, and we have record low activity rates among 25-54 year olds and stagnating wages. Patrolling the border and preventing illegal immigration will fix those problems, but we also need to send out the message that we are serious about enforcing immigration law. Legalizing any of these creates a moral hazard and we'll have another migrant surge at the border like we had years ago if we just legalize these people. Nobody wants that. What I suggest is that no one should be exempt from immigration law, and that if you are found, you will be deported. I don't imagine we're going to have immigration enforcement squads going out to get all 11 million +, but if we should that we're serious about this, we'll have self-deportation which will take care of most of the problem.

And if they want to come back to this country? Fine, you go through the process like everyone else, and I hope that the RAISE Act is part of it. If these DREAMers are as great as you say they are, then they'll have no problem coming in.
 
ataraxia said:
These children know no other country other than the US. I guess legally, you are correct. We could do it. But it just seems far too draconian and psychopathic. I guess it's just a matter of taste and temperament. I just am not seeing some frightening crisis that requires such frightening and draconian measures. Relax, man. Our economy is doing great. Crime rates are falling. There is no overwhelming national security problem. Why are you this frightened that you would be willing to hurt people this badly?
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Explain the logic in letting an illegal alien that entered on 6/14/07 at age 15 stay yet deporting one that entered on 6/16/07 at age 8. This is amnesty pure and simple while taking no measures to improve immigration law enforcement (border and interior) which virtually guarantees future calls for more amnesty. We still have folks "temporarily" here since the 2001 earthquakes in El Slvador. Once they get here (initially legally or not) then there is no changing the situation for the vast majority under the current deport only the "worst of them" system.
 
phattonez said:
We have 11 million + (it's clearly much more) people here illegally, and we have record low activity rates among 25-54 year olds and stagnating wages. Patrolling the border and preventing illegal immigration will fix those problems.
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No it won't. I don't know how you reached that conclusion, but no economist actually thinks that. The economy as a whole is growing just fine. The reason we have stagnating wages among 25-54 year-olds is because of obsolete trickle down policies which still persist, which economists have proven do not work, not because of any dreamers. The incomes of the top 1% of the population has grown over 400%. Still no trickle down.

Patrolling the border and preventing illegal immigration will fix those problems, but we also need to send out the message that we are serious about enforcing immigration law.
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N. Korea and East Germany have sent out that message too. And I am sure they have made sure everyone knows their laws are to be respected and feared. Not sure I want to emulate them though.

You can enforce the law on adults. If a 3-year-old does not stop and look both ways before crossing the intersection, you don't jail them. Not sure why you would enforce other federal laws on them. They only lesson you will be teaching the world is that you are a heartless psychopath.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Explain the logic in letting an illegal alien that entered on 6/14/07 at age 15 stay yet deporting one that entered on 6/16/07 at age 8. This is amnesty pure and simple while taking no measures to improve immigration law enforcement (border and interior) which virtually guarantees future calls for more amnesty. We still have folks "temporarily" here since the 2001 earthquakes in El Slvador. Once they get here (initially legally or not) then there is no changing the situation for the vast majority under the current deport only the "worst of them" system.
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OK. Fix it.

But I am not sure what this has to do with DACA.
 
ataraxia said:
No it won't. I don't know how you reached that conclusion, but no economist actually thinks that. The economy as a whole is growing just fine. The reason we have stagnating wages among 25-54 year-olds is because of obsolete trickle down policies which still persist, which economists have proven do not work, not because of any dreamers. The incomes of the top 1% of the population has grown over 400%. Still no trickle down.
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Flooding a job market with labor is going to depress wages. As we continue to flood labor markets, wages haven't grown much in real terms. And yes, the incomes of the top 1% have grown massively. They benefit more than anyone else from cheap labor.
N. Korea and East Germany have sent out that message too. Not sure I want to emulate them.
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Do you really see no difference between keeping people out and keeping people in?

You can enforce the law on adults. If a 3-year-old does not stop and look both ways before crossing the intersection, you don't jail them. Not sure why you would enforce other federal laws on them. They only lesson you will be teaching the world is that you are a heartless psychopath.
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I don't think that you understand how DACA works. The average DACA recipient is 24 years old.
 
To me, this whole immigration issue is as much a "crisis" as the number of people who don't obey the 55 mph speed limit sign. I mean, yes, there are lots of them. In fact, very few people I know actually follow that law.

But if someone all of a sudden thought this was some major crisis, and wanted to teach the public to really finally fear and respect that law, they could certainly make a case for it. Anyone found going even 1 mile above the speed limit would be pulled over and they, along with any others in the car with them, summarily executed on the side of the highway, with their bodies being left out in the open there for days as a lesson to others driving by to learn to respect the law.

I bet people would start respecting that law real quick if we got that serious about enforcing it. But really? Is there really that serious of a crisis here which requires such draconian measures?
 
ataraxia said:
1) OK. Fix it.

2) But I am not sure what this has to do with DACA.
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1) Fix what? DACA is the moronic thing that the demorats want as a stand alone deal.

2) The official (arbitrary?) must have entered by date for DACA is 6/15/07.
 
ataraxia said:
To me, this whole immigration issue is as much a "crisis" as the number of people who don't obey the 55 mph speed limit sign. I mean, yes, there are lots of them. In fact, very few people I know actually follow that law.

But if someone all of a sudden thought this was some major crisis, and wanted to teach the public to really finally fear and respect that law, they could certainly make a case for it. Anyone found going even 1 mile above the speed limit would be pulled over and they, along with any others in the car with them, summarily executed on the side of the highway, with their bodies being left out in the open there for days as a lesson to others driving by to learn to respect the law.

I bet people would start respecting that law real quick if we got that serious about enforcing it. But really? Is there really that serious of a crisis here which requires such draconian measures?
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Our culture is degrading, this is the crisis.

The downside of diversity - The Boston Globe
 
ataraxia said:
They were brought here as children.
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Yep, by criminals who will be the very first folks later granted chain immigration at their request. Why are the children of criminals granted head of line status over the children of those that did not enter (or remain in) the US illegally?
 
phattonez said:
Flooding a job market with labor is going to depress wages. As we continue to flood labor markets, wages haven't grown much in real terms. And yes, the incomes of the top 1% have grown massively. They benefit more than anyone else from cheap labor.
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If you got rid of all illegal immigrants in the US, the economies of Texas, California, and Arizona would each fall by about 10%, and potentially face a serious recession.

If all undocumented workers were immediately removed from the country, Edwards and Ortega forecast a decline of 9 percent in agricultural production and declines of 8 percent in construction and leisure and hospitality over the long term.

These are the industries most dependent on undocumented labor. Relative to the overall economy, however, the most important effect would be a decline in manufacturing output of $74 billion over the long term, followed by somewhat more modest declines in wholesale and retail trade and financial activities...

There are relatively few undocumented workers in the financial sector, but they make a disproportionate economic contribution. The sector employs just under 200,000 undocumented immigrants, but their weekly earnings are $1,132 on average — roughly twice the average across the economy for unauthorized workers, which is $581.

“When we think about unauthorized immigrants, we tend to think about poor Mexican workers with low education in agriculture,” Edwards said. In other sectors, he added, “they're highly trained, highly paid professionals, so their removal has a pretty large effect.”...

Edwards and Ortega estimate that undocumented workers are responsible for about 3 percent of the U.S. economy overall. Deporting all of them would result in a substantial contraction.

For his part, Trump has argued that removing immigrants will benefit U.S. workers who compete with them for employment...Most economists who have studied the effects of immigration have found only minimal effects on native-born workers' wages.

The potentially severe consequences of Trump’s deportation plans - The Washington Post
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ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, by criminals who will be the very first folks later granted chain immigration at their request. Why are the children of criminals granted head of line status over the children of those that did not enter (or remain in) the US illegally?
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Let's just do the RAISE Act. They can apply and if they get it before they're deported then they should be fine. However, until then, they should all be eligible for deportation.
 
ataraxia said:
If you got rid of all illegal immigrants in the US, the economies of Texas, California, and Arizona would each fall by about 10%, and potentially face a serious recession.
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And hey, maybe farming then would actually pay a decent wage! Maybe we would see Americans doing construction jobs. Maybe those in manufacturing would finally get a real raise!

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Those are real manufacturing wages. That's lower than what we had in 1979! What a joke!
 
phattonez said:
Let's just do the RAISE Act. They can apply and if they get it before they're deported then they should be fine. However, until then, they should all be eligible for deportation.
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That does nothing to aid in enforcement of immigration law at the border or within the interior. Its purpose is simply to limit legal immigration and grant a more limited amnesty.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That does nothing to aid in enforcement of immigration law at the border or within the interior. Its purpose is simply to limit legal immigration and grant a more limited amnesty.
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Hire more border patrol, build the wall, continue with the biometric entry/exit system. Change legal immigration law with the RAISE act. Honestly, I think that immigration should be lower than what the RAISE act proposes, but it's a step in the right direction.
 
ataraxia said:
If you got rid of all illegal immigrants in the US, the economies of Texas, California, and Arizona would each fall by about 10%, and potentially face a serious recession.
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More nonsense from those that see a permanent "need" for illegal immigration to keep wages low.
 
ataraxia said:
To me, this whole immigration issue is as much a "crisis" as the number of people who don't obey the 55 mph speed limit sign. I mean, yes, there are lots of them. In fact, very few people I know actually follow that law.

But if someone all of a sudden thought this was some major crisis, and wanted to teach the public to really finally fear and respect that law, they could certainly make a case for it. Anyone found going even 1 mile above the speed limit would be pulled over and they, along with any others in the car with them, summarily executed on the side of the highway, with their bodies being left out in the open there for days as a lesson to others driving by to learn to respect the law.

I bet people would start respecting that law real quick if we got that serious about enforcing it. But really? Is there really that serious of a crisis here which requires such draconian measures?
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^^ very, very much this.

We could make it illegal to have brown skin, round up all the brown people, and tell ourselves, "yeah but they broke the LAW", without ever questioning the wisdom of the law, but we'd be doing ourselves a disservice and disrupting the lives of good people.
 
The democratic party has lost the middle class blue collar vote (as evidence by the last presidential election) to such a great extent that they need to look to replace those votes. This mostly on excessive heavy-handed regulation and tepid / anemic economic growth, arrogance and contempt for anything non-blue coastal slivers.

When your electorate rejects your radicalism what do you do?
Import voters and alter the electorate to one that does vote for you, that are dependent on you (government handouts) hence, not voter ID requirements, open borders, illegal immigrant amnesty, chain immigration and immigration lottery / diversity immigration, and registering felons.
 
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