Baltimore Residents Want Police Back

RetiredUSN said:

OMG......really?

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Yup. They were.

When you build movements and riots against Law Enforcement and paint targets on cops backs over lies, you cant be shocked if cops tend to give you what you want. You also cant be expected to be taken seriously when you come back later and say "No...what we REALLY wanted is........"

PIPEWRENCH said:

It doesn't work that way. A lot of the black police, middle class black politicians, and government workers did not grow up in the urban jungles. They are as clueless as their white counterparts. You want to fix these troubled neighborhoods you need to make police out of the people from that neighborhood. The problem is most of the people who might become police have a record and our never forgive or forget society will not let them ever become the good guys.

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What I hear you saying is that class is more important than race. Hummm...

Checkerboard Strangler said:

HANDS UP everybody...
Hands up if you actually KNOW one or more police officers, even retired ones, in real life, or have cops in your family, or have BEEN on the job past or present.
I bet ten bucks (payable by PayPal) NONE of you are or have BEEN a cop, and I bet five bucks that only ONE of you at most actually KNOWS a real cop or have one in your family.

BE HONEST, because if you answer in the affirmative, you're going to have to prove it.
I'm willing to pay ten bucks if I am wrong, in order to understand the responses in this thread.

For the record, Mr. Person seems to "get" what the issue is all about better than most of you.
Baltimore residents didn't want the cops to go away, they wanted them to be more humane, more involved and less trigger happy.
But there's a reason why so many of today's cops ARE trigger happy.
It has to do with what the driving force is behind their training.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/us/training-officers-to-shoot-first-and-he-will-answer-questions-later.html



And he is paid $1000.00 an hour for his testimony as an "expert witness" despite never having worked in law enforcement or CRIMINAL JUSTICE at ANY CAPACITY.
Why are cities so eager to pay him a thousand bucks an hour?

Because it beats the hell out of MULTI MILLION DOLLAR CIVIL LIABILITY PAYOUTS in wrongful death trials.
A thousand bucks an hour in a courtroom setting is cheap insurance, that's why.

Lewinski has an almost 100% perfect record. He knows how to scare the crap out of a jury trying a police officer in a wrongful death trial.
And chances are very good he may have helped train the cops IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

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You seem to disapprove of an expert witness coming in to testify in favor of the police. A person who has marshaled his facts to support his side in legal advocacy is an asset to anyone in court. There's nothing wrong with that.

It would be easy to "scare a jury" about police encounters. All you'd have to do is show what has happened in such encounters when the police confront a really bad, crazy guy -- guys who pretend to surrender and then suddenly draw a gun on the cops, killing one or more, before he's taken down, or even manages to run off. Perps who put up this act to distract the cops or pretend not to understand cops, then a cop gets killed. Videos are available that show actual such events. Once you've seen these events it's not hard to understand how a cop would shoot a man who appears to be surrendering and then reaches for his belt behind him.

I'd maintain that a proper understanding of what cops are up against is enough to "scare" any jury. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with arming police with the knowledge that will keep them from getting killed.

Deuce said:

You literally just said black people should have a better idea of the issues because they're black.

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No, he 'literally' didn't.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

It wins you ten dollars!
Payable by PayPal
Contact me privately to collect!

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Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

AND.... I met a man of his word. Damned pleased to meet you Checkerboard Strangler.

Please just donate that 10.00 to a favorite local charity of yours. It's all good brother!

The Democrats were the original party of slavery and segregation, yet many on the left, think the right was/is responsible for this. This revision of history is needed by the Democrats, to get the black vote, in spite of the slavery. How did the Democrats perform this revisionist scam? For example, in Baltimore, all the top city positions of power, are run by blacks, yet the white cops carry the blame. How did they get the black to see a mirage? The mayor is the boss yet is sold as being clean.

In my observation, the trick appears to start with leftist white people; journalist and activists, acting as spokesmen for the blacks. They speak and write in a way, that makes some white people, on the right, think this is how all blacks think, even though it is not. What is really being said, is a self serving leftist white rendition of the facts. The result is there will be some white people who will push back, which the blacks feel was unprovoked, since they never said these things. However, this push back, now appears to reinforce the original propaganda, that started the division. There is a confusion created.

As an analogy, say I wanted to spit up Joe and Mary. Together, they don't want me around, but if they split up, I can hang with Joe, again, I will first gossip about Joe to Mary, putting words in his mouth. I am pretending to be his spokesman, while also pretending to be concerned for Mary. This gets Mary upset, because she thinks I speak for Joe, and Joe believes what I just said. She then insults Joe, which causes Joe, to react in kind. Now it looks like I was right all along, even though it all started as a scam to create division.

The Democrats did this scam in Baltimore and other cites, in time for the 2016 elections, to help recruit blacks to vote for the party of slavery. The fruit of that scam was disaster for the residents of Baltimore. Now the residences want to go back to before the scam. However, the leftist white spokesmen, keep the gossip going, since midterms are coming up; playoffs, and the original party of slavery needs black votes. I need Joe to come wth me to the game, so I need to make new friction with Mary.

What I notice is although the left typically starts the gossip to create division. The right wing media plays into the game. Most of these initiating opinion pieces are on leftist rags, which nobody from the right may ever see. The Right wing media, points these out with outage, to stimulate right wing friction. I get the impression both media outlets have a recipe for viewership, which involves pushing emotional buttons. One gets the sense both are trying to create news, with each playing off the other. This allows the media to coordinate and choreograph news events for better ratings.

tres borrachos said:

No, because I'm sure you're going to post a link and I don't have to guess about something I wouldn't know about and doesn't really have anything to do with my post.

Did the head of Internal Affairs say "they don't have to obey dispatch when they are sent to a call on their beat if the neighborhood makes them uncomfortable".

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No- he just said they don't go. OR more accurately-they wait for somebody else to go so the response time was atrocious.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I agree that the issue is not strictly just racist. Police are generally poorly trained and trigger happy. They're a danger to everyone they encounter.

A prankster called 911 and the trigger-happy cops shoot dead an innocent man who they thought was reaching for a gun. What does that say about how trigger-happy police are? The guy was unarmed, they never confirmed there was a crime and they shot him dead.

Oh, my best friend is an Asian police officer. He says police are incredibly racist. It's like a jock frat culture.



Police: Prank led to police shooting unarmed Kansas man - ABC News

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you and others like you on the board, want the officers to wait until the suspect actually has a weapon pointed at the officers before they can fire

what you fail to realize, is that we are talking split second decisions....if the officer doesnt react, what outcomes are possible?

a. officer gets shot
b. suspect fires and misses
c. suspect was unarmed (and just stupid for not following directions)

those are the three possible outcomes i can think of....and you want the officer to RISK their life because the suspect refuses to listen to direct commands and you want them to SEE a weapon first

by the time a weapon is seen, 2, 3, 4 shots could be fired....and the guy in blue is possibly dead

maybe you think that is cowardice....i know many on this board feel that way....

maybe you ought to spend a night in their shoes, and see what it really feels like

it is already hard enough to recruit cops in most jurisdictions....now you want them to be targets....no thanks

gdgyva said:

you and others like you on the board, want the officers to wait until the suspect actually has a weapon pointed at the officers before they can fire

what you fail to realize, is that we are talking split second decisions....if the officer doesnt react, what outcomes are possible?

a. officer gets shot
b. suspect fires and misses
c. suspect was unarmed (and just stupid for not following directions)

those are the three possible outcomes i can think of....and you want the officer to RISK their life because the suspect refuses to listen to direct commands and you want them to SEE a weapon first

by the time a weapon is seen, 2, 3, 4 shots could be fired....and the guy in blue is possibly dead

maybe you think that is cowardice....i know many on this board feel that way....

maybe you ought to spend a night in their shoes, and see what it really feels like

it is already hard enough to recruit cops in most jurisdictions....now you want them to be targets....no thanks

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You totally ignored what I said.

1. Whipping a gun out and hitting your target in a split second is really hard. It's not like in the movies.

2. It makes no sense to shoot someone when you don't know they have a gun.

I would think it would be common sense that you don't use deadly force unless you're sure. It's not OK to kill people just in case they're a danger. That's the problem with police.

There job is to potect the public not themselves at the expense of the public.

They killed an innocent man who only came to the door. That's inexcusable.

What if it was your son they shot just-in-case he had a gun?

SonOfDaedalus said:

You totally ignored what I said.

1. Whipping a gun out and hitting your target in a split second is really hard. It's not like in the movies.

2. It makes no sense to shoot someone when you don't know they have a gun.

I would think it would be common sense that you don't use deadly force unless you're sure. It's not OK to kill people just in case they're a danger. That's the problem with police.

There job is to potect the public not themselves at the expense of the public.

They killed an innocent man who only came to the door. That's inexcusable.

What if it was your son they shot just-in-case he had a gun?

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based on the call they received, and the actions of the man at the door, the shot was okay in my book

i think we need to throw away the key for the guy that made the call in the first place

set an example....30 years should do it

hostage situation....i want the men in blue trying to save the hostages....that is what they thought they had

gdgyva said:

based on the call they received, and the actions of the man at the door, the shot was okay in my book

i think we need to throw away the key for the guy that made the call in the first place

set an example....30 years should do it

hostage situation....i want the men in blue trying to save the hostages....that is what they thought they had

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Why is that?

LowDown said:

What I hear you saying is that class is more important than race. Hummm...

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I think you have to take both into account. I think a lot of black people would like to see more black cops that were raised in their neighborhood. The same with white people, Hispanic, Asian, or even just a mix of the poor.

When I was a teenager I pretty much stayed in my little town or locale if we were in a city. I know in the little town when the local cop pulled up and asked us what we were up to he knew our names, our parents, been to our house for a barbeque, and a card game. The situation was different than the first time I ran into a State Trooper who did not know me nor did I know him. There was a big difference in the tension levels. I was relaxed with the local cop as well as he was with me. We knew neither one of us presented a danger to the other. Not so with the State Trooper. With the State Trooper he had his hand on his gun as he looked in the window. He did not talk to me but barked orders. The tension level was immense for both of us even though we were not a danger to each other at all. However one wrong move, even an accident, which happened as I reached quickly into the glove box for my insurance and registration put us instantly in a very dangerous situation. My black flashlight looked like the but of a hand gun to a nervous cop at night. Had I been pulled over as possible armed and dangerous suspect instead of speeding I probably would have been shot.

Of course the down side of local police returning to their neighborhoods is corruption. I would rather investigate corruption rather than all these accidental shootings.

Spartacus FPV said:

Why is that?

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they thought they had a hostage situation

and the subject started to reach into his waist area. instead of complying with orders

Captain America said:

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

AND.... I met a man of his word. Damned pleased to meet you Checkerboard Strangler.

Please just donate that 10.00 to a favorite local charity of yours. It's all good brother!

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My favorite local charity right at the moment is a couple that lost everything in the recent hurricane down in TX.
I'll be tickled to send them another donation.

But what do your friends think of Mr. Lewinski and his Force Science Institute?

Checkerboard Strangler said:

My favorite local charity right at the moment is a couple that lost everything in the recent hurricane down in TX.
I'll be tickled to send them another donation.

But what do your friends think of Mr. Lewinski and his Force Science Institute?

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Honestly, I don't ever recall any saying to much of anything about that particular think tank other than a few conversations regarding training they are scheduled for or have already began that deals directly with some of the same interests/studies as FSI. Perhaps that is what they were discussing and it just went over my head. I hear them talking about new technology (well, new to me anyways,) such as voice stress analysis. If I heard them correctly, that is supposed to be more accurate than polygraphs. I know they are forever training on de-escalation and other psychological techniques to apply in stressful situations.

You know, having been smack dab in the middle of L.E.O.'s since I was tall enough to reach the top of the kitchen table, I have to say. Cops today are MUCH different today than the one's I was brought up around. As a child, I remember cop tales of yore about things such has having "drop guns" handy and helping people pull dead bodies into door ways to create evidence of self-defense and many other wild ass conversations. My father had a 32 cup peculator and it was nothing to come home from a hard day of bike riding and baseball playing to find no less than a dozen squads parked in front of our house. All the old cops would be inside drinking coffee, smoking Lucky Strikes, cussing blacks and Messkin's, laughing how they beat the **** out of them or placed evidence, etc. And the bull**** was flying. I had so many blue eyes on me, watching out for me, protecting me, that I couldn't get away with anything. LOL!

The cops I know today are nothing like that at all, generally speaking. They measure each other in increments of integrity. They have a big heart for many of the downtrodden that often end up in the back of their squad. Compassionate. Family minded. Charity minded. Taking pride in being "the good guy" and actually walking the walk. Nothing at all like those big fat guys that used to fill my house up with cigarette smoke.

I am so proud of the guys I know in law enforcement. You won't find better people anywhere.

SonOfDaedalus said:

You totally ignored what I said.

1. Whipping a gun out and hitting your target in a split second is really hard. It's not like in the movies.

2. It makes no sense to shoot someone when you don't know they have a gun.

I would think it would be common sense that you don't use deadly force unless you're sure. It's not OK to kill people just in case they're a danger. That's the problem with police.

There job is to potect the public not themselves at the expense of the public.

They killed an innocent man who only came to the door. That's inexcusable.

What if it was your son they shot just-in-case he had a gun?

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Because I was around cops, going to the range with them, and occasionally doing other things, my kids grew up with cops around the house all the time

And we had a lot of conversations about what to do, and not to do in situations

My son got caught with pot with a couple of other kids in a car they weren’t supposed to be in....he knew enough to follow directions to a tee, and once detained, and in cuffs, he gave the name of one of the officers he knew

He was on duty, showed up, and then called me to apprise me of the situation....

I figured a few hours being processed would be a good lesson, so he went through the system....

If parents aren’t teaching their kids how to deal with cops, and what to do in situations, then the parents are failing

And if my son would have been that STUPID to not follow explicit directions and orders from a cop, he would have deserved to get shot

People need to realize they aren’t in control in those situations....and it is always preferable to just fight whatever the issue is in court, not with the guys in uniform....it isn’t a winnable confrontation