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When is government legitimate?

ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, so is the "safety net" which makes it possible for employers to pay far less than a "living wage" since we the sheeple make up the shortfall with public funds. Some call that resulting artificial reduction in wages compassionate conservatism rather than corporate welfare.
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Compassionate to Walmart and the like who the public subsidizes in this manner, I can see that.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Original incoherent emotional diarrhea in italics.
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Gee buddy, considering the fact that the American people wanted the surveillance--- demanded it, in fact--- not to mention the very simple concept that there is quite a lot of crime going on in this country, which of course necessitates prison sentences, unless you want to bring back summary execution--- it's really not as malign as you seem to fantasize.

So your exceptional nation comprised of 5% of the planetary population births 25% of the planet's criminal population, ... interesting. And then the corporate state turns that over to "the market" with corporate for profit prisons where convict labor leasing (=slavery, which by the way is legal in america once "convicted") where the system can turn $40-50K per year per hominid in a post industrial society where jobs and coal for example are most certainly not coming back. As for americans asking for mass surveillance? Some of you are are certainly more drawn to a police state rather than liberty. Americans seem to have this illusion that some aristocrat will come save them so they don't have to do anyting themselves. Not to worry, with a growth industry like for profit prisons, the industry is able to lobby to have more behaviors criminalized and keep prisons full, growing, and yeilding ever more profits for Wall Street. The power structure first decided it no onger required the workers for production, then they decided they no longer required us for consumption either, so any wage we can be driven down to now has no alternative cosequence for the Wall Street/donor/"job creator" class.

Good thing we have those "charities" you support to launch terrorist attacks and ensure that unjustified shootings--- which, when you consider the millions of interactions between citizens and the police across the country every day, really aren't all that common--- will continue.

Look, you're going to have to do this one in front of a mirror where you rehearsed this, I don't know anything about your assertion that I support this charity or that one, you're just making shat up again.

"Wars of agression" by which you mean overthrowing your hero Saddam and the Taliban. Yawn. We all get that you love mass murderers, but you are in the minority there.

I do think the US would do well to be a tad more consistent in it's endless denial of what it does with regard to foreign policy. We have this habit of propping up folks and cabals we then have to go take down. I know that you require quite a bit of external validation and that the very thought of you holding a view that is not in the majority is terrifying, but here's what we really did:

• How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons
How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons
The Ties That Blind How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons. ... of Saddam Hussein.” A 1994 US Senate report ... plant that would give the ...

• U.S. Gave Iraq Intel, Ignored Chemical Attacks In 1980s ...
U.S. Gave Iraq Intel, Ignored Chemical Attacks In 1980s, Report Says | HuffPost
... it knew Baghdad would respond with chemical weapons, ... Gave Iraq Intel, Ignored Chemical Attacks In ... Us Helped Saddam Saddam Hussein Iran ...

• How Did Iraq Get Its Weapons? We Sold Them | Common Dreams
How Did Iraq Get Its Weapons? We Sold Them | Common Dreams
THE US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

• US gave Saddam blessing to use toxins against Iranians — RT ...
US gave Saddam blessing to use toxins against Iranians ? RT World News
US gave Saddam blessing to use ... chemical attacks launched by Iraq in 1988 was dubbed the Blessed Ramadan Offensive and became the largest use of chemical weapons ...


At some point you'll realize that no Americans support your delusions.

Not looking for external validation, and like you said, from a people who ask for a police state? Yeah, no thank you, not interested in joining your club of denialists.
 
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Tigerace117 said:
As it turned out, it took quite a few demonstrations and major efforts to force the issue.
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I answered your generalized question with a general answer, now you seem to have something specific in mind. I'm not into playing guessing games.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
Goshin said:
I'm not having this conversation with you, because you can't have it without being bigoted and hateful towards southerners, and willfully not listening to any one else's view.
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Oh, so opposing treason, the murder of American soldiers and sailors, terrorism and oppression of African Americans is "hateful and bigoted"? With that attitude no wonder it took a damn century to force y'all into abiding by the constitution.
 
trouble13 said:
I answered your generalized question with a general answer, now you seem to have something specific in mind. I'm not into playing guessing games.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
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Oh, I've made it very clear the specific example I had in mind.
 
Fenton Lum said:
Compassionate to Walmart and the like who the public subsidizes in this manner, I can see that.
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Walmart pays more for the same job than many small employers do. They, like any other employer, are apt to offer no more pay than is required to attract and retain qualified labor. Folks are not paid based on their production, or their value to the employer, they are paid based on the cost of replacing them.

Since I use only temporary help, and often with little lead time to recruit them, I pay (at least) $100/day cash, include free lunch and transportation to and from the job site. Obviously, I do so only on jobs that will yield enough to make hiring that help profitable.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Walmart pays more for the same job than many small employers do. They, like any other employer, are apt to offer no more pay than is required to attract and retain qualified labor. Folks are not paid based on their production, or their value to the employer, they are paid based on the cost of replacing them.

Since I use only temporary help, and often with little lead time to recruit them, I pay (at least) $100/day cash, include free lunch and transportation to and from the job site. Obviously, I do so only on jobs that will yield enough to make hiring that help profitable.
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Wonderful.

Understanding the Historic Divergence Between Productivity and a Typical Worker?s Pay: Why It Matters and Why It?s Real | Economic Policy Institute
 
Fenton Lum said:
Gee buddy, considering the fact that the American people wanted the surveillance---
te state turns that over to "the market" with corporate for profit prisons where convict labor leasing (=slavery, which by the way is legal in america once "convicted") where the system can turn $40-50K per year per hominid in a post industrial society where jobs and coal for example are most certainly not coming back. As for americans asking for mass surveillance? Some of you are are certainly more drawn to a police state rather than liberty. Americans seem to have this illusion that some aristocrat will come save them so they don't have to do anyting themselves. Not to worry, with a growth industry like for profit prisons, the industry is able to lobby to have more behaviors criminalized and keep prisons full, growing, and yeilding ever more profits for Wall Street. The power structure first decided it no onger required the workers for production, then they decided they no longer required us for consumption either, so any wage we can be driven down to now has no alternative cosequence for the Wall Street/donor/"job creator" class.[/B]

Good thing we have those "charities" you support to launch terrorist attacks and ensure that unjustified shootings--- which, when you consider the millions of interactions between citizens and the police across the country every day, really aren't all that common--- will continue.

Look, you're going to have to do this one in front of a mirror where you rehearsed this, I don't know anything about your assertion that I support this charity or that one, you're just making shat up again.

"Wars of agression" by which you mean overthrowing your hero Saddam and the Taliban. Yawn. We all get that you love mass murderers, but you are in the minority there.

I do think the US would do well to be a tad more consistent in it's endless denial of what it does with regard to foreign policy. We have this habit of propping up folks and cabals we then have to go take down. I know that you require quite a bit of external validation and that the very thought of you holding a view that is not in the majority is terrifying, but here's what we really did:

• How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons
How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons
The Ties That Blind How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons. ... of Saddam Hussein.” A 1994 US Senate report ... plant that would give the ...

• U.S. Gave Iraq Intel, Ignored Chemical Attacks In 1980s ...
U.S. Gave Iraq Intel, Ignored Chemical Attacks In 1980s, Report Says | HuffPost
... it knew Baghdad would respond with chemical weapons, ... Gave Iraq Intel, Ignored Chemical Attacks In ... Us Helped Saddam Saddam Hussein Iran ...

• How Did Iraq Get Its Weapons? We Sold Them | Common Dreams
How Did Iraq Get Its Weapons? We Sold Them | Common Dreams
THE US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

• US gave Saddam blessing to use toxins against Iranians — RT ...
US gave Saddam blessing to use toxins against Iranians ? RT World News
US gave Saddam blessing to use ... chemical attacks launched by Iraq in 1988 was dubbed the Blessed Ramadan Offensive and became the largest use of chemical weapons ...


At some point you'll realize that no Americans support your delusions.

Not looking for external validation, and like you said, from a people who ask for a police state? Yeah, no thank you, not interested in joining your club of denialists.
Click to expand...


Gee buddy, considering the fact that the US is the world's lone superpower and with the high demand for illicit substances it's really not all that surprising---which you would know if your entire argument wasn't based around your own ignorance.

Ignoring the usual blather of garbage which you seem to feel obligated to continually spew...

Did you forget about your support for terrorist groups like the Black Panthers? I guess even you can't keep track of the stupidity you produce.

RT is literally nothing but propaganda......0 for 1. The Russians sold Saddam immense amounts of material, including the crucial Hind gunships, so them spewing that nonsense is particularly amusing.

Yet more of your CTer nonsense.....0 for 4.

You are quite bad at this.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Oh, so opposing treason, the murder of American soldiers and sailors, terrorism and oppression of African Americans is "hateful and bigoted"? With that attitude no wonder it took a damn century to force y'all into abiding by the constitution.
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Case in point above. You ain't discussin', you're just cussin'.
 
Goshin said:
Case in point above. You ain't discussin', you're just cussin'.
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No, I'm stating historical facts. I'm sorry that the real history, instead of whatever romanticized **** you teach down there to try to make yourselves feel better, hurts your feelings.

Care to comment on the fact that we needed to send in one of the most battle hardened divisions in the US Army to keep kids from being beaten or worse for the horrific crime of.... going to school?
 
Tigerace117 said:
Gee buddy, considering the fact that the US is the world's lone superpower and with the high demand for illicit substances it's really not all that surprising---which you would know if your entire argument wasn't based around your own ignorance.

Ignoring the usual blather of garbage which you seem to feel obligated to continually spew...

Did you forget about your support for terrorist groups like the Black Panthers? I guess even you can't keep track of the stupidity you produce.

RT is literally nothing but propaganda......0 for 1. The Russians sold Saddam immense amounts of material, including the crucial Hind gunships, so them spewing that nonsense is particularly amusing.

Yet more of your CTer nonsense.....0 for 4.

You are quite bad at this.
Click to expand...

Oh look, denial. The original Black Panther Party for Self Defense? Yup, sure did, still would. The so called "New Black Panthers"? Nope, I'd put them in the same pile with tiki torch bearing "jew will not replace us" white supremacist nazi/klanners.

But you can't deal with nuance and objective reality so we're left with your emotional diarrhea.
 
Fenton Lum said:
Oh look, denial. The original Black Panther Party for Self Defense? Yup, sure did, still would. The so called "New Black Panthers"? Nope, I'd put them in the same pile with tiki torch bearing "jew will not replace us" wite supremacists.

But you can't deal with nuance and objective reality so we're left with your emotional diarrhea.
Click to expand...

The original Black Panthers were just as much a band of terrorist thugs as their modern day counterparts.

You wouldn't know "objective reality" if it whacked you upside the head.
 
Tigerace117 said:
No, I'm stating historical facts. I'm sorry that the real history, instead of whatever romanticized **** you teach down there to try to make yourselves feel better, hurts your feelings.

Care to comment on the fact that we needed to send in one of the most battle hardened divisions in the US Army to keep kids from being beaten or worse for the horrific crime of.... going to school?
Click to expand...

You're emotionally unraveled today pard, more than usual, just sayin'. Are you wanting to make sense? Why don't you attempt to calm down and explain what you're incoherently blathering on about?
 
Tigerace117 said:
Oh, I've made it very clear the specific example I had in mind.
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Could of fooled me. I still dont know what you have in mind. If you dont want to spell it out than this is where i will bow out

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Tigerace117 said:
The original Black Panthers were just as much a band of terrorist thugs as their modern day counterparts.

You wouldn't know "objective reality" if it whacked you upside the head.
Click to expand...

We just disagree pard, that's all, calm down.
 
trouble13 said:
Could of fooled me. I still dont know what you have in mind. If you dont want to spell it out than this is where i will bow out

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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Good choice, he circles around things for hours while emoting.
 
Fenton Lum said:
We just disagree pard, that's all, calm down.
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The Black Panthers tried desperately to undermine Dr.King's work and directly set back the struggle for African Americans trying to exercise their constitutional rights. They were nothing more than thugs.
 
trouble13 said:
Could of fooled me. I still dont know what you have in mind. If you dont want to spell it out than this is where i will bow out

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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Oh really bud?

You really couldn't grasp the fact that I was referring to the Jim Crow era?
 
Tigerace117 said:
The Black Panthers tried desperately to undermine Dr.King's work and directly set back the struggle for African Americans trying to exercise their constitutional rights. They were nothing more than thugs.
Click to expand...

Got it, don't share your perceptual reality.
 
Fenton Lum said:
I heard, and where did I say he did not? Pretty ****ed up ain't it, that america required that. And hell, folks are still upset about it.
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It wasn't "America" though......Eisenhower only needed to do it once before people grudgingly accepted that African Americans had the right to attend the same schools as their kids.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Oh really bud?

You really couldn't grasp the fact that I was referring to the Jim Crow era?
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Some folk may not find you worth chasing indefinitely through your anger issues to arrive at some kind of point.
 
Fenton Lum said:
Got it, don't share your perceptual reality.
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It's a historical fact. Elements in American society opposed to the civil rights movement used the example of the Black Panther terrorist group to justify their opposition.
 
Tigerace117 said:
It wasn't "America" though......Eisenhower only needed to do it once before people grudgingly accepted that African Americans had the right to attend the same schools as their kids.
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So your argument is that it was only somewhat ****ed up, got it. What is this about again?
 
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