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Doug Jones Wins. Is this the beginning of the end for Trump?

SonOfDaedalus said:
(not official yet as of 10:25 PM EST but I'm calling it. I'll be embarrassed if I'm wrong)

What does this mean for Trump who pushed for Moore? Is this the beginning of the end?
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The easy thing to do after a win like this is make some incredibly simple sweeping generalization about how bad the other side is and about how great our side is or that this proves people are against the current agenda etc. In reality Moore could have lost because of 100 different reasons. It's entirely possible that if you remove trumps unpopularity that he wins. Or if you run Roy Moore without the child ****ing he almost assuredly wins. But very likely this one single race and it's results are nothing more than a snapshot of this one race and isn't useful for anything more than a possible vague trend in the democrats direction.

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SonOfDaedalus said:
(not official yet as of 10:25 PM EST but I'm calling it. I'll be embarrassed if I'm wrong)

What does this mean for Trump who pushed for Moore? Is this the beginning of the end?
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The beginning of the end for Trump was in January. Notice how he hasn't accomplished anything of note during his entire time in office?

That's unusual for a president, particularly one with unified control of government.

His best days as president are behind him, and he hasn't had any good ones yet.
 
Fishking said:
Which means what when you have someone with credible accusations of child molestation? Your position is weird and illogical.
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"credible accusations of child molestation". What does that tell us about the moral base of the President, that he would support such a person? If Trump was willing to support a "child molester", why shouldn't we believe the women who have accused Trump of sexual assault and harassment?

Doug Jones winning in Alabama says a lot also about the rather strange moral values of many who call themselves evangelicals, a group which apparently has some rather strange ideas about acceptable behaviour by adult males.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
But Trump asked them to. Trump said, "go out and vote for Roy Moore." Trump robocalled them. It didn't work. That's incredibly damaging. It means Trump took a position that was beyond their moral threshold. So, how can they feel the same about Trump if he encouraged them to do something they thought was objectionable? This has grave repercussions for Trump.

This is how political power collapses. This is the beginning of the crumbling of Donald J. Trump. Trump is just no longer popular, even in the deep red states.
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So? What's your point? You think that Trump telling people to vote for a credibly accused child molester will just automatically mean people will ignore all that? What a strange thought.
 
Fishking said:
So? What's your point? You think that Trump telling people to vote for a credibly accused child molester will just automatically mean people will ignore all that? What a strange thought.
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No, it means Trump asked his supporters to do something they believed was immoral and they refused to do it. That kills loyalty.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
But Trump asked them to. Trump said, "go out and vote for Roy Moore." Trump robocalled them. It didn't work. That's incredibly damaging. It means Trump took a position that was beyond their moral threshold. So, how can they feel the same about Trump if he encouraged them to do something they thought was objectionable? This has grave repercussions for Trump.

This is how political power collapses. This is the beginning of the crumbling of Donald J. Trump. Trump is just no longer popular, even in the deep red states.
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That's just dumb. Trump won the state easily in 2016 and will win it again easily in 2020. This was a referendum on Moore, not Trump.
 
Somerville said:
"credible accusations of child molestation". What does that tell us about the moral base of the President, that he would support such a person? If Trump was willing to support a "child molester", why shouldn't we believe the women who have accused Trump of sexual assault and harassment?

Doug Jones winning in Alabama says a lot also about the rather strange moral values of many who call themselves evangelicals, a group which apparently has some rather strange ideas about acceptable behaviour by adult males.
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Trump isn't someone with a personal character that I use for my kids as a role model so I'm still failing to see your point.
 
MrPeanut said:
Nine women came out to accuse Moore of a being a predator. If you don't like the fact that I refer to 16 year old girls as children we are going to have to disagree.
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Uhhh...how about you reread what you responded to and get back to me, because you obviously didn't understand it. Obviously, I was pointing out that beating a child molester isn't something to be proud of or seen as an accomplishment but you think it is. I guess that means that you don't think child molestation is that big of a deal.
 
Fletch said:
That's just dumb. Trump won the state easily in 2016 and will win it again easily in 2020. This was a referendum on Moore, not Trump.
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That's true. But let's imagine you're a supporter of President John Smith. You love president John Smith. Now president John Smith asks you to vote for a known child molester. He tells you to ignore your conscience. You refuse to do it. Are you telling me that wouldn't change the way you feel about president John Smith? That's what happened here when Trump asked his supporters to vote for Roy Moore.
 
volsrock said:
U beat an accused child molester, without that u cant win!
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Funny. A lot of people on this forum seemed quite supportive of the accused child molester until recently. What changed?
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
No, it means Trump asked his supporters to do something they believed was immoral and they refused to do it. That kills loyalty.
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How about that people just don't automatically do what they are told to do? Ever think about the fact that we still have free agency in the U.S.? I know that's a tough concept for those who lean left to understand but it remains true, none the less.
 
Bucky said:
Your guy beat a guy who was accused of molesting teens. Should Democrats be proud of that?
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Should Republicans be proud that so many are willing to vote for an accused child molester?
 
It’s certainly a signal that conservative hypocrites do not win elections, even in red states. And the Breitbart/Russian school of trying to discredit opposition and divide to win, in a country like America, has stunted legs.
 
Fishking said:
Uhhh...how about you reread what you responded to and get back to me, because you obviously didn't understand it. Obviously, I was pointing out that beating a child molester isn't something to be proud of or seen as an accomplishment but you think it is. I guess that means that you don't think child molestation is that big of a deal.
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He was backed by the POTUS, FOX News, and plenty of other right wing news sources. He was also in an extremely deep red state. It is something to be proud of.
 
Fishking said:
How about that people just don't automatically do what they are told to do? Ever think about the fact that we still have free agency in the U.S.? I know that's a tough concept for those who lean left to understand but it remains true, none the less.
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Yes, and they used their free agency to decide the Trump was asking them to do something immoral. They don't see Trump as a leader anymore.
 
It is the continuation of the end for Trump which started on January 21 with the three million strong Womens March.
 
I'm not certain what this means overall but let's hope that this is the beginning of the country moving back towards civility.
 
Fishking said:
VA has pretty much always been Democrat.
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Not in this decade, with the huge advantage the GOP has had in both Virginia state houses after the 2010 elections. Those 2010s in VA and two dozen other states led to federal and state remaps still in court across the Nation.

VA remaps allowed GOPs to keep control of the House of Delegates last month while losing the overall vote by over 10%. I believe we'll see this pattern repeated in most GOP states next year as it will take two elections to undo the current GOP advantage ...
 
I don't understand some of the comments in this thread.
Trump won with a minority vote yet everyone that supported Trump said..take that you pieces of liberal ****.
Trump won against a severly flawed candidate...same thing Trump will win again in 2020, take that
Trump won that state by a large margin that has been cut by about 20% less popularity in that state.

Now it's Doug Jones did not win this election but Roy Moore lost it.

What is it?
You can't have it both ways.
If Trump is great then so is Doug Jones he won an un-winnable race against a bad candidate just like Trump did.
 
Middle_Ground said:
I don't understand some of the comments in this thread.
Trump won with a minority vote yet everyone that supported Trump said..take that you pieces of liberal ****.
Trump won against a severly flawed candidate...same thing Trump will win again in 2020, take that
Trump won that state by a large margin that has been cut by about 20% less popularity in that state.

Now it's Doug Jones did not win this election but Roy Moore lost it.

What is it?
You can't have it both ways.
If Trump is great then so is Doug Jones he won an un-winnable race against a bad candidate just like Trump did.
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Extremely fair point. Well put.

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All it means is that those who want to preserve and defend America, rather than surrender to a Socialist U.N. World Government, will have to Quadruple their efforts to defeat the damnable Leftists!

I will not quaiver in my support for Trump, his administration or his goals.

I will not aid or accept anything the damnable Leftist who just Illegal Immigrant CHEATED his way into office in any way, nor will I accept any thing in legislation he does!

Gods Damn the Left and any who vote for them!


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Kurmugeon said:
All it means is that those who want to preserve and defend America, rather than surrender to a Socialist U.N. World Government, will have to Quadruple their efforts to defeat the damnable Leftists!

I will not quaiver in my support for Trump, his administration or his goals.

I will not aid or accept anything the damnable Leftist who just Illegal Immigrant CHEATED his way into office in any way, nor will I accept any thing in legislation he does!

Gods Damn the Left and any who vote for them!


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Who are you referring to?
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Trump stuck his neck out for a child molester and lost. Now Republicans are thinking that maybe Trump is not as popular as he thinks he is. Trump is at 32%, should they be surprised? Dems have flipped Alabama. Republicans need to ditch Trump.
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What crap - Trump stuck his neck out for Luthor Strange and lost too - not a big deal. If anything, it's a blow for Bannon.

Speaking of child sex - what's your opinion on Left-wing attempts to sexualize children by teaching them about sex at ever younger ages?
 
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