Would Alabama Conservatives Be Ok With Nude Modeling of Underage Women?

TheGoverness said:

Girls couldn't wear pants? That's some bull****.

Click to expand...

Neither could your dress be more than 3 inches above the knee. And this was at PUBLIC schools! Gotta love Texas. LOL!

In 1975, they started allowing the girls to wear polyester "pant suits." But it had to be a matching outfit. You could NOT wear jeans and a blouse. You had to dress like Hillary Clinton or wear a dress.

Captain America said:

Neither could your dress be more than 3 inches above the knee. And this was at PUBLIC schools! Gotta love Texas. LOL!

In 1975, they started allowing the girls to wear polyester "pant suits." But it had to be a matching outfit. You could NOT wear jeans and a blouse. You had to dress like Hillary Clinton or wear a dress.

Click to expand...

Those aren't very good options to choose from! :lol:

Captain America said:

Oh yes.... I remember those times in Texas all too well.

In the 5th grade, my teacher, Miss Melville, didn't like my Beatle boots, surfer shirt, hair and Rat Fink ring. So, she yanked me by the arm, pulled me behind her desk, jerked the Rat Fink ring off my finger, threw it in the garbage, grabbed her scissors, started cutting my hair, and stabbed me in the forehead in the process. Then she sent me to the office for resisting and I got 3 swats with a board from Mr, Dover.

This day and age, both would have been sent to prison for that.

Click to expand...

Yes, I remember those elementary school days as well. At Madding they only swatted boys which caused me to enjoy spanking women after i saw it happen in the Trevor Howard movie, Pearls from Heaven ( I think that was the name). The girls could get away with murder and nothing would happen to them. I saw it time after time.

At least they let us have our RAT FINK rings. I loved them. had a whole shoe box full or the rat finks and the rings they stuck on the top of them.
5 cents each out of a machine at the grocery store.

I tried to get some one time and all I found were cheap Chinese imitations.

Captain America said:

Oh yes.... I remember those times in Texas all too well.

In the 5th grade, my teacher, Miss Melville, didn't like my Beatle boots, surfer shirt, hair and Rat Fink ring. So, she yanked me by the arm, pulled me behind her desk, jerked the Rat Fink ring off my finger, threw it in the garbage, grabbed her scissors, started cutting my hair, and stabbed me in the forehead in the process. Then she sent me to the office for resisting and I got 3 swats with a board from Mr, Dover.

This day and age, both would have been sent to prison for that.

Click to expand...

I remember in the first grade one teacher taking a dislike to this one boy named Doyle and brought a chair out in front of the class, put a baby bonnet on his head, then took him over her knee, pulled down his pants and spanked him for about 5 minutes straight on his bare bottom the very first day of class right there in front of everyone. I have no doubt she was a pedophile. I was so glad we moved in a few months and i did not have to attend Hartsfield Elem anymore.

PleasantValley said:

I remember in the first grade one teacher taking a dislike to this one boy named Doyle and brought a chair out in front of the class, put a baby bonnet on his head, then took him over her knee, pulled down his pants and spanked him for about 5 minutes straight on his bare bottom the very first day of class right there in front of everyone. I have no doubt she was a pedophile. I was so glad we moved in a few months and i did not have to attend Hartsfield Elem anymore.

Click to expand...

I had a teacher, Ms. Haltom that would make one kid go stick his nose in the naughty corner when the class said the pledge each morning. His family was Jehovah Witnesses and they don't do pledges of allegiance kind of things. EVERY day she would scorn and embarrass him and offer snide comment regarding his "un-American devil" worship.

Captain America said:

I had a teacher, Ms. Haltom that would make one kid go stick his nose in the naughty corner when the class said the pledge each morning. His family was Jehovah Witnesses and they don't do pledges of allegiance kind of things. EVERY day she would scorn and embarrass him and offer snide comment regarding his "un-American devil" worship.

Click to expand...

Yes. Crap like that made us tough though.
It also made us both experienced in actual child abuse.
Now we can know it when it happens because we have seen it happen right in front of us, and remember it too.
Its seriousness is why I do not put any faith in accusations, but real evidence instead.
Mere accusations alone can destroy an innocent life.
It is a shame few here agree with me on this.
But it has always been easier to join a mob than to effectively analyze the issue.

Winston said:

You know what else they used to do to women in the 16th century?

Click to expand...

Protect them with chivalry? Of course, it depends where on earth one was in the 1500s. I think Martin Luther running off with a nun.

Rape them...

Click to expand...

Sure, women don't get rapped today.

buy them, sell them, trade them...

Click to expand...

Your post #1 was not about but about whether it is okay or not for a 15 year-old girl to model naked. Your post #1 was not about women being enslaved (men were enslaved too).

marry them off, forbid them from speech. Lots of bad stuff.

Click to expand...

Okay, I know Western people of today get all frightened and huffy when they hear the term "arranged marriage." Admittedly, I used to be one of them. But as some Asians from the East that still culturally practice arranged marriages let me know, and corrected me some years ago, arranged marriages are not the same thing as forced marriages. Essentially, all arranged marriages are are the parents playing match maker. The children still make their choice to marry x, y, z person or not. Some people are happy with this, some people are not, if you don't like it then don't do it. Kind of like Western people and there LGBTQ stuff.

At least arranged marriages aren't parents dressing their 7 year-old sons up as girls and sending them to school, and worse yet them and some willing doctors putting the kid on estrogen so he'll grow female looking breasts at some point and bubble butt like a girl.

Women could speak in the 16th century. I'm fairly confident of that. You weren't around then and most Americans don't even know what's going on in their own country today, so, I hardly can take some opinion of a modern American or Western person on all of Europe (with all its national, cultural, legal variations) about life in the 1500s or 1600s seriously.

I'll answer you last question separately.

PleasantValley said:

Yes. Crap like that made us tough though.
It also made us both experienced in actual child abuse.
Now we can know it when it happens because we have seen it happen right in front of us, and remember it too.
Its seriousness is why I do not put any faith in accusations, but real evidence instead.
Mere accusations alone can destroy an innocent life.
It is a shame few here agree with me on this.
But it has always been easier to join a mob than to effectively analyze the issue.

Click to expand...

People are very selective as to whom they afford the "benefit of the doubt."

However, when you have a busload of people coming forth one has to think where there is smoke there is fire.

If Trump or Moore was a, "librul democrat," the same apologists, making excuses for them now, would be going for their throat. I am certain of that.

Winston said:

Thankfully we don't live in the 16th century any longer. So, you've said a lot of crap here to basically say, what? It's not that bad of Roy Moore to sleep with a 16 year old? It's really bad for a liberal to point that out though.

Click to expand...

Do you even recall what your post #1 was about?

Here is what you posted. And I will highlight in green the most relevant part.

Since it's not really a big deal. Because I mean, have you seen the 15 year olds lately? They look like they're 20.

(But, they're not. They're still just girls.)

Since it's perfectly fine for Roy Moore to engage in adult behavior with girls, should the young girls of Alabama be allowed to nude model too?

Click to expand...

Ergo, my points I made about Caravaggio and that Brazilian film from year 1980 called Pixote

Caravaggio a famous 17th century Italian painter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravaggio

And his painting in question of a naked little boy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amor_Vincit_Omnia_(Caravaggio) (Boy in painting is naked, so, don't click the link if one can't or doesn't want to see such an image)

And the highly acclaimed Brazilian film from year 1980, Pixote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixote (naked boy, the star of the show, on the movie cover box or poster).



So, I was mainly addressing your question and that it culturally derives from Puritan Democratic Party holier than thou preaching. I point out Democrats in part because Democrats have a very strong tradition of putting up Protestant preachers, going to Protestant churches to campaign (a Federal violation that's supposed end their tax free exemption, but Democrats and Protestant do it all the time, whereas Catholics walk on egg shells--the exception might be that Catholic Black Church in Chicago that draws celebrity Democrats and liberal political figures from all over with its Black Protestant service-like Mass and preaching). The Republicans are really no better.

As for a 30 year-old having sex with a 16 year-old? If it was the choice of both I see it as the sexual sin of premarital sex, unchaste sexual behavior. I was never taught in my university biology classes that sexual intercourse between a 30 year-old and 16 year-old is "unnatural." By the way does biology say that about homosexual sex, sodomy, or any thing LGBTQ? Furthermore, I believe in Catholicism for which I was raised in by age 16 one has reached what Catholicism terms "the age of reason," and if you stab some homeless guy to death for kicks and giggles, or blow a 30 year-old for $100, then you pretty much knew what you were doing. You see... there is an equality in the Catholic perception you modern Western people want to run from. Sexual sin is sexual sin. The question is which sexual sin does one reason ought be made illegal. Homosexuality? The "her body, her choice" except when it comes to sex and ageism pertaining to her mate? Adultery? Prostitution?

I'm for government's promoting a high moral bar. Like very high. So high few to no one can keep it or obtain it. Similar to very high academic standards. But allowing almost everything to be legal. But the high moral bar will be your North Star if you ever get to the point you need to make your way back home. And leave the Church--not the government--to preaching and tugging people morally along.

You Democratic Party people are Puritans. I don't care if you don't realize it. You're even more Puritanical than atheist liberals in Europe.

Truthfully, modeling naked for art is one thing. That is still blurry. But modeling for porn (the US Supreme Court decided the difference between art and porn has to do with intent to sexually arouse the viewer or audience) no one should do even if they are adults. All people are called to live as Christian saints. But extremely few of us do. I don't. I'm not trying to control the body of a 15 year-old that is not my daughter. Her taking a naked picture is no more harmful than her aborting her child. The latter ought be illegal.

As for Roy Moore I on't know enough about him or Conyers and I'm more or less indifferent to their sexual lives. I have not followed the Moore case and I just presume he chased after teenage girls. I presume he is a liar, a sexually immoral man, and a hypocrite that tries to portray himself as saintly and condemn others. That's my presumption.

PleasantValley said:

The is an Australian movie called WALKABOUT where they filmed a 15 yo girl nude and a small boy with full frontal nudity.
I was a bit shocked so I did some research and found out they had to wait until the girl reached 15 before they could film her nude from any angle.
After 15 = any angle. Australian law.
The scene is at the end when she is daydreaming about them both skinny dipping with an Aboriginal young man.
Actually the scene is quite charming as no sexual implications were made. Just three kids all playing and enjoying themselves in the water.
But she was 15 and the little boy looked to be about 6 or 7.

Click to expand...

Never heard of this film. I'm a big fan of the public library system. Palaces of wealth. Their own kind of wealth. And because the Milwaukee Public Library system stocks DVDs from countries all over the world I have gotten to occasionally watch foreign movies with subtitles. That and I have to credit my parents: they were unusual for Americans in that they watched foreign language movies occasionally and I got exposed to that at a very young age. It has stayed with me.

The Aussies speak English but it's still "foreign film." I've seen a few Aussie movies but I generally looked for more Brazilian, Mexican, French, Korean, Chinese, and Indian movies. So far, no film descriptions from Nigeria (Nollywood) has gained my interest.

But yeah... you get to see how some cultures (countries) are a bit more at ease with human nudity than Americans. But then again... back during the 1950s supposedly Americans were swimming nude all over the place. Most of us would be shocked and frightened if we saw even a single individual swimming nude today let alone an entire pool full of people. :lol:

FastPace said:

Never heard of this film. I'm a big fan of the public library system. Palaces of wealth. Their own kind of wealth. And because the Milwaukee Public Library system stocks DVDs from countries all over the world I have gotten to occasionally watch foreign movies with subtitles. That and I have to credit my parents: they were unusual for Americans in that they watched foreign language movies occasionally and I got exposed to that at a very young age. It has stayed with me.

The Aussies speak English but it's still "foreign film." I've seen a few Aussie movies but I generally looked for more Brazilian, Mexican, French, Korean, Chinese, and Indian movies. So far, no film descriptions from Nigeria (Nollywood) has gained my interest.

But yeah... you get to see how some cultures (countries) are a bit more at ease with human nudity than Americans. But then again... back during the 1950s supposedly Americans were swimming nude all over the place. Most of us would be shocked and frightened if we saw even a single individual swimming nude today let alone an entire pool full of people. :lol:

Click to expand...

I can only hang my head in shame and admit this is where those damned Puritans landed.
Since then, we have been suffering under their silly beliefs.
All the while other peoples were kicking back and merely enjoying life.
Under the Puritan system you are not supposed to smile or laugh because we are here to suffer.
No wonder the Indians thought they were weird.

Winston said:

It's saying if you're okay with a 30+ year old man having a sexual relationship with a 15-17 year old, then you must be okay with child porn too because that's where this road leads us.

Click to expand...

So, you have a problem with 15 and 17 year old people undergoing hormonal therapy for sex change, and even a 15 year year-old born a boy getting girl breast implants? Or you have no problem with that because you'll get red in the face, and give the rebuttal, "They're mature enough to know themselves and what they can handle and what the future holds in store for them."

But you have a problem with any 15 or 17 year-old being photographed naked by professional photographers for a magazine or modern online website?

How about we make it law that once a person reaches age 14 they can legally get on opposite sex sex hormones, get breast implants, or even model nude if they want? But by empowering them that might strip you Democrats and Republicans of your power to use them as pawns pieces in your selfish (and that's what it is because none of you give a damn about these kids) social wars you are trying to engineer.

You know what child abuse is? Dressing your 7 year old son up as a girl and sending him to school under the Democratic Party Religion preaching that said 7 year-old boy is more emotionally mature, more wise to the world, understands the ramifications of his choices more, than a 15 or 17 year-old heterosexual girl that wants to get paid $1,000 having a professional photographer take nude photos of her. Judging by the Kardashian's it might launch the 15 or 17 year-old girl into a multi-million dollar career.

PleasantValley said:

I can only hang my head in shame and admit this is where those damned Puritans landed.
Since then, we have been suffering under their silly beliefs.
All the while other peoples were kicking back and merely enjoying life.
Under the Puritan system you are not supposed to smile or laugh because we are here to suffer.
No wonder the Indians thought they were weird.

Click to expand...

Well... I don't want to bash Puritans too hard. They still exist and some have admirable virtues: firmly teaching their sons not to womanize, and placing an emphasis on hard work.

The 17th century Italy was a wild place. Even being cognizant that Italy was not one unified national identity then. Nonetheless, we can still speak of the Italians as each region was culturally similar enough. And I think Italian culture went to far towards sexual liberalism, mainly with children, during the 17th century. While I used Caravaggio's painting of that naked little boy as an example, I personally don't care for it, not only is it too "gay" it is pedophile-like. But Caravaggio like many of the Italian painters of his time had teenage boy lovers and even some had prepubescent boy lovers. And the whole of Italian society was pretty bisexual. The port city of Naples in particular was a international kind of city (due to its port and location) and wild. Supposedly it is where modern transvestiteism originates from. Naples was San Francisco before San Francisco ever existed.

All that was fine except that 17th century Italy did not protect prepubescent children (particularly boys) well enough. Presumably, Puritans did a better job of that. Even the Anglican English or the Catholic Spaniards.

In my view prepubescent children need to be given less freedom--and more protection--than teenagers. I don't see the two as the same physically, emotionally, or "mentally."

Naked prepubescent children in art like cinema or paintings is probably not so bad so long as its done on a way not meant to intentionally cause sexual arousal in adult viewers. I think like that Pixote movie cover. I think that was meant to grab attention and arouse empathy (not sexual lust).

That Caravaggio painting was really skating the line though in my view. Italians of that time period were perfectly fine with it though.

FastPace said:

So, you have a problem with 15 and 17 year old people undergoing hormonal therapy for sex change, and even a 15 year year-old born a boy getting girl breast implants? Or you have no problem with that because you'll get red in the face, and give the rebuttal, "They're mature enough to know themselves and what they can handle and what the future holds in store for them."

But you have a problem with any 15 or 17 year-old being photographed naked by professional photographers for a magazine or modern online website?

How about we make it law that once a person reaches age 14 they can legally get on opposite sex sex hormones, get breast implants, or even model nude if they want? But by empowering them that might strip you Democrats and Republicans of your power to use them as pawns pieces in your selfish (and that's what it is because none of you give a damn about these kids) social wars you are trying to engineer.

You know what child abuse is? Dressing your 7 year old son up as a girl and sending him to school under the Democratic Party Religion preaching that said 7 year-old boy is more emotionally mature, more wise to the world, understands the ramifications of his choices more, than a 15 or 17 year-old heterosexual girl that wants to get paid $1,000 having a professional photographer take nude photos of her. Judging by the Kardashian's it might launch the 15 or 17 year-old girl into a multi-million dollar career.

Click to expand...

How about hardcore stuff? You want to go there let's go. Is it okay for a 15 year old girl, who Roy Moore wants to bang to do hardcore porn?

Winston said:

How about hardcore stuff? You want to go there let's go. Is it okay for a 15 year old girl, who Roy Moore wants to bang to do hardcore porn?

Click to expand...

Okay in what terms? I subscribe to St. Thomas Aquinas's and St. Augustine's views that prostitution should be legal for not every sin should be made illegal they both claimed. I bring up prostitution because I view it along similar lines of your question. Prostitution is not okay insofar as it is immoral. Just as getting on opposite sex hormones to look like the opposite sex or getting in a lesbian or gay male sexual relation is not okay insofar as it is immoral.

It's not okay for a 15 year-old or a 30 year-old to do porn insofar as doing soft or hardcore porn is immoral. Whether these sinful things should be illegal is another matter.

A 15 year-old should not be having sex even with another 15 year-old in privacy. In terms of morality. As sex is only morally okay inside of the bonds of marriage. By marriage I mean a union between male and female.




If I'm to be consistent on granting a 14 year-old and above the right and authority over their own body to shoot it up with opposite sex hormones then I think I have to grant them the right to do hardcore porn if they wish. If you object to them doing porn maybe it is born from the same prejudice others have of teen boys dressing up as girls, using the girls locker rooms, and doing girls cheerleading?






You can regret doing porn later on. You can also regret living as the opposite sex later on.








That teen cheerleader that was born a boy. Chances are high that he is--if he hasn't already--going to get banged in his butt by a series of males. He may never regret it. Or maybe one day he will. Why shrug our shoulders over his regrets over his several years of different males banging his butt, but then act like hysterical women over a 15 year-old girl that free wills to get her vagina banged by different men over a year or more in porn?

The hard fact is heartache is going to come to many in this world. We can try to make soft landing for them. And we can keep the moral North Star shining bright in the sky and point to it as what they should follow to reduce or avoid unneeded heartache. Some will fall, and like I said, we can make a soft landing for them, or try to.

I don't know, life comes with suffering. I wish it did not but it does. Of course we should try to reduce suffering. I guess some of us disagree on the paths to doing that.

Winston said:

Since it's not really a big deal. Because I mean, have you seen the 15 year olds lately? They look like they're 20.

(But, they're not. They're still just girls.)

Since it's perfectly fine for Roy Moore to engage in adult behavior with girls, should the young girls of Alabama be allowed to nude model too?

Click to expand...

Well I am 54 years old and according to the left its just A-OK ..If i put on a dress call myself Nancy and walk into a locker room where a 15 year old girl may be nude and also A-OK if I get nude in front of her! I have seen many times they claim why be scared of a penis in a locker room or bath room