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Trump’s tweet

MaggieD

MaggieD

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I think we may be missing something here... His tweet, paraphrased, said something like, “I fired Flynn because he lied to VP Pence and the FBI.” Sounds like he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he fired Flynn. I agree with that. It does. And if so, we are all assuming Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice.

Not so fast.

In order for that to be obstruction of justice, two more things must be true...


  1. Trump must have known he lied to the FBI at that time.
  2. Trump must have KEPT that knowledge FROM the FBI.

Trump had no legal duty to tell the public the full extent of why he fired Flynn. None at all.

There is this printed in February 2017...

So the White House knew that (1) Flynn was falsely denying that he had talked about sanctions, (2) he had been interviewed by the FBI, and (3) the interview had prompted a warning from the Justice Department about Flynn giving a false account. Did White House officials, in their interrogations of Flynn, ask him what he had told the bureau? It’s almost inconceivable that they didn’t. But Priebus refuses to confirm that they did. “Did he mislead the FBI or lie to the FBI? Is that one of the issues that came up during the deposing?” Todd asked Priebus. “That’s a different issue for the FBI to answer,” Priebus replied. “Certainly we’ve talked about that issue with leadership at the FBI. But I’m not in a position to talk about that with you.
Click to expand...


Timing is everything.

So, those who say that tweet is definitive evidence that Teump is guilty of obstruction have, yet again, jumped the gun.
 
Well, Trump is certainly guilty of lying, one way or the other.
 
MaggieD said:
I think we may be missing something here... His tweet, paraphrased, said something like, “I fired Flynn because he lied to VP Pence and the FBI.” Sounds like he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he fired Flynn. I agree with that. It does. And if so, we are all assuming Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice.

Not so fast.

In order for that to be obstruction of justice, two more things must be true...


  1. Trump must have known he lied to the FBI at that time.
  2. Trump must have KEPT that knowledge FROM the FBI.

Trump had no legal duty to tell the public the full extent of why he fired Flynn. None at all.

There is this printed in February 2017...

[/B]

Timing is everything.

So, those who say that tweet is definitive evidence that Teump is guilty of obstruction have, yet again, jumped the gun.
Click to expand...

You feeling ok from all the gymnastic wording and spinning you did? Trump lied and most likely did obstruct. Ok but who from the crooked, stealing and lying GOP is going to impeach trump over it? Don’t worry trump will he just fine with his beaten down GOP dogs.
 
MaggieD said:
I think we may be missing something here... His tweet, paraphrased, said something like, “I fired Flynn because he lied to VP Pence and the FBI.” Sounds like he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he fired Flynn. I agree with that. It does. And if so, we are all assuming Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice.

Not so fast.

In order for that to be obstruction of justice, two more things must be true...


  1. Trump must have known he lied to the FBI at that time.
  2. Trump must have KEPT that knowledge FROM the FBI.

Trump had no legal duty to tell the public the full extent of why he fired Flynn. None at all.

There is this printed in February 2017...

[/B]

Timing is everything.

So, those who say that tweet is definitive evidence that Teump is guilty of obstruction have, yet again, jumped the gun.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with your two stipulations, Maggie.

An obstruction charge needs only to show Trump tried to impede the investigation. Motive is irrelevant.
 
MaggieD said:
I think we may be missing something here... His tweet, paraphrased, said something like, “I fired Flynn because he lied to VP Pence and the FBI.” Sounds like he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he fired Flynn. I agree with that. It does. And if so, we are all assuming Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice.

Not so fast.

In order for that to be obstruction of justice, two more things must be true...


  1. Trump must have known he lied to the FBI at that time.
  2. Trump must have KEPT that knowledge FROM the FBI.

Trump had no legal duty to tell the public the full extent of why he fired Flynn. None at all.

There is this printed in February 2017...

[/B]

Timing is everything.

So, those who say that tweet is definitive evidence that Teump is guilty of obstruction have, yet again, jumped the gun.
Click to expand...

They are now claiming a lawyer drafted the tweet.
 
Praxas said:
You feeling ok from all the gymnastic wording and spinning you did? Trump lied and most likely did obstruct. Ok but who from the crooked, stealing and lying GOP is going to impeach trump over it? Don’t worry trump will he just fine with his beaten down GOP dogs.
Click to expand...

What is incorrect with my two stipulations? I didn’t spin or do any gymnastics with wording at all.

Chomsky said:
I don't agree with your two stipulations, Maggie.

An obstruction charge needs only to show Trump tried to impede the investigation. Motive is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I made no reference at all to “motive.” That tweet does not indicate Trump tried to impede the investigation unless he knew about Flynn’s specificmtestimony AND he didn’t inform the FBI about it.
 
MaggieD said:
In order for that to be obstruction of justice, two more things must be true...


  1. Trump must have known he lied to the FBI at that time.
  2. Trump must have KEPT that knowledge FROM the FBI.
Click to expand...

It's obstruction of justice if Trump knew that Flynn committed a crime and Trump tried to stop the investigation into the matter. Trump fired Flynn on February 13th and asked Comey to stop investigating on Feb 14th.

Trump fired Flynn on Feb. 13, and at the time said it was because Flynn had misled Vice President Mike Pence about his conversations with Russian officials about sanctions. It was three days later that The Washington Post reported that Flynn had lied to the FBI about those conversations.

Related: Michael Flynn pleads guilty to lying to FBI in Mueller probe

The tweet was a departure from Trump's earlier support for Flynn, on the campaign trail and afterwards. It suggested that he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI — a felony — when, on Feb. 14, Trump asked FBI Director James Comey to shut down the investigation into Flynn, as The New York Times reported. Comey confirmed before Congress in June that the president had pressured him to be lenient toward Flynn.

"The President then returned to the topic of Mike Flynn, saying, 'He is a good guy and has been through a lot,'" Comey's written testimony said. "He repeated that Flynn hadn't done anything wrong on his calls with the Russians, but had misled the Vice President. He then said, 'I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.'"
Click to expand...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...gests-he-knew-flynn-had-lied-fbi-time-n825936
 
MaggieD said:
How do you figure?
Click to expand...

He’s claimed from the start no one from his team had contacts with Russians. Now two of the four indicted have pleaded guilty to lying about having contact with Russians.
 
MaggieD said:
I think we may be missing something here... His tweet, paraphrased, said something like, “I fired Flynn because he lied to VP Pence and the FBI.” Sounds like he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he fired Flynn. I agree with that. It does. And if so, we are all assuming Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice.

Not so fast.

In order for that to be obstruction of justice, two more things must be true...


  1. Trump must have known he lied to the FBI at that time.
  2. Trump must have KEPT that knowledge FROM the FBI.

Trump had no legal duty to tell the public the full extent of why he fired Flynn. None at all.

There is this printed in February 2017...

[/B]

Timing is everything.

So, those who say that tweet is definitive evidence that Teump is guilty of obstruction have, yet again, jumped the gun.
Click to expand...

At this point, I agree, Trump might have kept it from the FBI not because of criminal intent but because of his stupidity. Or he could have been the one ordering ALL of his minions to lie. But it's a technicality. Oh boy. What a great defense! Our PRESIDENT, is either an idiot or a criminal. He will probably end up as both.

This is one step in the conspiracy leading to a much larger picture. Flynn has a lot of dirt and probably did a whole lot of stuff (with his son) we don't even know about too. That's why he got a plea deal. That's why he is cooperating. That's why he is only being charged with something small.

This is just the beginning. Kushner will be next. Followed by Trump Jr or maybe even Sessions, and then Trump himself.
The man has lied so so much.
Mueller might even get some hangers-on like Priebus or Pence
 
MaggieD said:
How do you figure?
Click to expand...

He repeatedly said he fired Flynn for lying to Pence. He'd already been told weeks earlier by Acting AG Sally Yates that Flynn had lied because he'd been caught on tape with Russians by the FBI. Trump then fired Sally Yates. Trump repeatedly asked FBI Director Comey to let Flynn go. Then he fired Comey. Trump repeatedly said that Comey was fired because of how he'd mishandled Hillary's email investigation, and gave new Acting AG Rosenstein's letter as the reason. Rosenstein went ballistic to be blamed. Trump then came out on tv and said, well, it was really the Russia thing. Meanwhile, Trump continued to send his minions to the FBI to beg for the Russia thing to be dropped. Rosenstein, seeing what he was dealing with, appointed Mueller.

Enough lies, or shall I go on, lol! Never mind, I'm tired and there is a 5,000 word limit to posts. Bottom line, I'm convinced that Trump is the Liar in Chief and don't believe a damned thing he says, because inevitably he'll contradict himself in a matter of days... or even hours. YMMV.
 
MaggieD said:
A lawyer for Clinton? ;)
Click to expand...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-lawyer-wrote-tweet-implying-trump-knew-flynn-lied-to-fbi/

President Trump's personal attorney composed a tweet that implied Mr. Trump knew his former national security adviser Michael Flynn had lied to the FBI when he demanded his resignation in February, sources with direct knowledge of the situation tell CBS News.

On Saturday, a tweet from Mr. Trump's account stated that he "had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI." John Dowd was the principle wordsmith for the tweet, and it's unclear whether Mr. Trump saw the final version, sources said. The president was in between fundraisers in New York when the tweet was sent from an iPhone.
Click to expand...
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
At this point, I agree, Trump might have kept it from the FBI not because of criminal intent but because of his stupidity. Or he could have been the one ordering ALL of his minions to lie. But it's a technicality. Oh boy. What a great defense! Our PRESIDENT, is either an idiot or a criminal. He will probably end up as both.

This is one step in the conspiracy leading to a much larger picture. Flynn has a lot of dirt and probably did a whole lot of stuff (with his son) we don't even know about too. That's why he got a plea deal. That's why he is cooperating. That's why he is only being charged with something small.

This is just the beginning. Kushner will be next. Followed by Trump Jr or maybe even Sessions, and then Trump himself.
The man has lied so so much.
Mueller might even get some hangers-on like Priebus or Pence
Click to expand...

Trump was elected to drain the Washington swamp. Look at things now.
 
MaggieD said:
What is incorrect with my two stipulations? I didn’t spin or do any gymnastics with wording at all.



I made no reference at all to “motive.” That tweet does not indicate Trump tried to impede the investigation unless he knew about Flynn’s specificmtestimony AND he didn’t inform the FBI about it.
Click to expand...
My point is, Trump doesn't have to meet either of those stipulations.

If he tried to impede the investigation, that alone can be obstruction.
 
MaggieD said:
What it does NOT make clear is whether or not Trump spoke to the FBI about it even if he did know.
Click to expand...

Honestly, who cares? Even if he did obstruct justice, nothing will ever come of it and his supporters will believe it is just some grand conspiracy or they will jump into some Whataboutism rant of how Hillary got away with e-mails and Bengahzi. We no longer live in an era of a accountability. Trump is literally untouchable.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
At this point, I agree, Trump might have kept it from the FBI not because of criminal intent but because of his stupidity. Or he could have been the one ordering ALL of his minions to lie. But it's a technicality. Oh boy. What a great defense! Our PRESIDENT, is either an idiot or a criminal. He will probably end up as both.

This is one step in the conspiracy leading to a much larger picture. Flynn has a lot of dirt and probably did a whole lot of stuff (with his son) we don't even know about too. That's why he got a plea deal. That's why he is cooperating. That's why he is only being charged with something small.

This is just the beginning. Kushner will be next. Followed by Trump Jr or maybe even Sessions, and then Trump himself.
The man has lied so so much.
Mueller might even get some hangers-on like Priebus or Pence
Click to expand...
That's quiet a tall order.

I never thought it could be possible. But it is.

Is it probable? It's getting to the point, that I just don't know.
 
CriticalThought said:
They are now claiming a lawyer drafted the tweet.
Click to expand...

I had to look that up because I thought it was a joke. it is not.

Update: The Post is now reporting that the tweet was authored by Trump's personal lawyer, John Dowd, according to two people familiar with the situation. The fact that Dowd authored the tweet could limit its salience to the investigation, but the White House still hasn't publicly corrected anything.
Click to expand...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-be-a-problem-for-him/?utm_term=.78755d8437c0
 
CriticalThought said:
Honestly, who cares? Even if he did obstruct justice, nothing will ever come of it and his supporters will believe it is just some grand conspiracy or they will jump into some Whataboutism rant of how Hillary got away with e-mails and Bengahzi. We no longer live in an era of a accountability. Trump is literally untouchable.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree with you. He is as vulnerable as any president if he has broken the law. Repubs will not protect him when and if the chips go down.
 
CriticalThought said:
Honestly, who cares? Even if he did obstruct justice, nothing will ever come of it and his supporters will believe it is just some grand conspiracy or they will jump into some Whataboutism rant of how Hillary got away with e-mails and Bengahzi. We no longer live in an era of a accountability. Trump is literally untouchable.
Click to expand...
It will take an act of Congress, to get Trump. Literally.
 
Chomsky said:
That's quiet a tall order.

I never thought it could be possible. But it is.

Is it probable? It's getting to the point, that I just don't know.
Click to expand...

I always hate it when we get down to this point, but here it is: The President is either an idiot or a criminal, but probably both. We are here, of course MSNBC Morning Coffee Joe says Trump's insane, but that's something different :mrgreen:
 
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