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No new taxes necessary for Medicare Single Payer Insurance because taxpayers own it

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Razoo

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In my mind after having been associated with the Medicare Single Payer Insurance movement for a few years my speculation suggests no new tax should be necessary.

- Moving funds from medicare as we know it, Medicaid, VA healthcare budget, native American health care and a budget for government employees to Single Payer should provide a substantial contribution.

- Cut corporate subsidies 50%. Cut War Budget 50%

- Single Payer eliminates CEO salaries, golden parachutes for CEO's, eliminates donations to political campaigns, eliminates all commercial advertising, eliminates bonus checks and will reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Single Payer Insurance will also eliminate 8 lobbyists per elected official and all of the money they sling throughout the halls of capitol hill..

- As we speak the government is shelling out more than $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover health care costs annually for government connected budgets.

- Leaving Medicare for ALL under a government umbrella will allow the $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover the nation if my memory serves me well. It is simply more efficient use of tax dollars.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Among the most fiscal responsible attributes is everybody pays in no matter what which reduces the cost to all of us across the board.

- There is no reinventing the wheel. It's all in place waiting to be delivered. There should be no co-pays and no deductibles.

- Nobody will ever be late paying for their insurance and all of us will be helping each other.

- No more bankruptcies due to medical bills and such.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf
 
The R&D is done primarily through the USA college community = taxpayers are funding.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Wow. Delusional comedy gold.
Click to expand...




Curious, The US does do the majority of research and development with medical advances, how is the comedy. If you can show otherwise please do and be specific.
 
Razoo said:
In my mind after having been associated with the Medicare Single Payer Insurance movement for a few years my speculation suggests no new tax should be necessary.

- Moving funds from medicare as we know it, Medicaid, VA healthcare budget, native American health care and a budget for government employees to Single Payer should provide a substantial contribution.

- Cut corporate subsidies 50%. Cut War Budget 50%

- Single Payer eliminates CEO salaries, golden parachutes for CEO's, eliminates donations to political campaigns, eliminates all commercial advertising, eliminates bonus checks and will reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Single Payer Insurance will also eliminate 8 lobbyists per elected official and all of the money they sling throughout the halls of capitol hill..

- As we speak the government is shelling out more than $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover health care costs annually for government connected budgets.

- Leaving Medicare for ALL under a government umbrella will allow the $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover the nation if my memory serves me well. It is simply more efficient use of tax dollars.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Among the most fiscal responsible attributes is everybody pays in no matter what which reduces the cost to all of us across the board.

- There is no reinventing the wheel. It's all in place waiting to be delivered. There should be no co-pays and no deductibles.

- Nobody will ever be late paying for their insurance and all of us will be helping each other.

- No more bankruptcies due to medical bills and such.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf
Click to expand...


I don’t think I have ever read a more misinformed opinion on healthcare than this.
 
Bassman said:
And no more medical breakthroughs nor R&D. The ONLY country that has that is the US now.
Click to expand...

Big pharma actually spends very little on R&D. It shows in their carelessness about side effects.
 
Razoo said:
The R&D is done primarily through the USA college community = taxpayers are funding.
Click to expand...

Even if you were correct, which, without a link, no one believes you, here’s what it takes to get a new drug to MARKET...And only 1 in every 5,000 drugs make the trip to release.

Drug Approvals - From Invention to Market ... A 12- Year Trip

In the United States, it takes an average of 12 years for an experimental drug to travel from the laboratory to your medicine cabinet. That is, if it makes it.

Only 5 in 5,000 drugs that enter preclinical testing progress to human testing. One of these 5 drugs that are tested in people is approved. The chance for a new drug to actually make it to market is thus only 1 in 5,000. Not very good odds.

The process of drug approval is controlled in most countries by a governmental regulatory agency. In the U.S., the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) governs this process. The FDA requires the following sequence of events before approving a drug.

Preclinical Testing: A pharmaceutical company conducts certain studies before the future drug is ever given to a human being. Laboratory and animal studies must be done to demonstrate the biological activity of the drug against the targeted disease. The drug must also be evaluated for safety. These tests take on the average 3 1/2 years.


Investigational New Drug Application (IND): The pharmaceutical company files an IND with the FDA to begin testing the drug in people. The IND becomes effective if the FDA does not disapprove it within 30 days. The IND must include the following information: the results of previous experiments; how, where and by whom the new studies will be conducted; the chemical structure of the compound; how it is thought to work in the body; any toxic effects found in the animal studies; and how the compound is manufactured. The IND must also be reviewed and approved by the Institutional Review Board where the studies will be conducted.


Phase I Clinical Trials: Phase I studies are usually the first tests of a drug under development in healthy volunteers. These studies involve about 20 to 80 volunteers. The tests determine a drug's safety profile, including the safe dosage range, plus how the drug is absorbed, distributed, metabolized and excreted, and the duration of its action. Phase I trials take on the average 1 year.


Phase II Clinical Trials: These are slightly larger studies that are done in patients with the disease for which the drug is intended. This phase is usually designed to identify what are the minimum and maximum dosages. The trials generally involve 100 to 300 volunteer patients and are controlled in design. They are done to assess the drug's effectiveness. Phase II typically takes about 2 years.


Phase III Clinical Trials: These are the definitive, large randomized trials that are submitted to the FDA in order to obtain approval of a drug. This phase examines the effectiveness as well as the safety (adverse events) of the new drug. Phase III trials usually involve 1,000 to 3,000 patients in clinics and hospitals. Patients are usually asked a list of possible side effects, often derived from what was observed in phase II studies. Patients are also free to report any other side effects that occur while they are on the new drug or the placebo (the "sugar pill" that is given to a percentage of patients in a trial study). Phase III takes on the average 3 years.


New Drug Application (NDA): Following the Phase III Clinical Trials, the drug manufacturer analyzes all the data from the studies and files an NDA with the FDA (provided the data appear to demonstrate the safety and effectiveness of the drug). The NDA contains all of the data gathered to date about the drug. (An NDA typically consists of at least 100,000 pages.) The average NDA review time for new drugs approved in 1992 was close to 30 months (2 1/2 years).


Phase IV Studies: Phase IV is any organized collection of data from patients who are taking a drug that has already received approval from the FDA. In Phase IV studies, patients may check boxes on a list (as in phase III studies) or they may just report other symptoms. Phase IV studies are commonly called "post-marketing studies
Click to expand...
 
Razoo said:
The R&D is done primarily through the USA college community = taxpayers are funding.
Click to expand...

R & D is done primarily by for profit business. About 2/3's. In that we lead the world and bear most of worldwide costs.

There would be far more is government didn't take decades to approve new drugs. Costs would also be far less.
 
Razoo said:
In my mind after having been associated with the Medicare Single Payer Insurance movement for a few years my speculation suggests no new tax should be necessary.

- Moving funds from medicare as we know it, Medicaid, VA healthcare budget, native American health care and a budget for government employees to Single Payer should provide a substantial contribution.

- Cut corporate subsidies 50%. Cut War Budget 50%

- Single Payer eliminates CEO salaries, golden parachutes for CEO's, eliminates donations to political campaigns, eliminates all commercial advertising, eliminates bonus checks and will reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Single Payer Insurance will also eliminate 8 lobbyists per elected official and all of the money they sling throughout the halls of capitol hill..

- As we speak the government is shelling out more than $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover health care costs annually for government connected budgets.

- Leaving Medicare for ALL under a government umbrella will allow the $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover the nation if my memory serves me well. It is simply more efficient use of tax dollars.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Among the most fiscal responsible attributes is everybody pays in no matter what which reduces the cost to all of us across the board.

- There is no reinventing the wheel. It's all in place waiting to be delivered. There should be no co-pays and no deductibles.

- Nobody will ever be late paying for their insurance and all of us will be helping each other.

- No more bankruptcies due to medical bills and such.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf
Click to expand...

There is only ONE reason Medicare works... the rest of us, through our insurance premiums and the higher bills our insurance companies pay for the same services billed to Medicare are paying to subsidize Medicare. Without those premiums and the higher costs regular insurance pays for treatments, in my opinion, half of all hospitals would close and half of all docs would quit the business, if not more.

Medicare gets billed $140 for an X-ray. They pay about $8. Your insurance company gets billed $140 bucks and generally pays very close to $140. Without that? Medicare would be dead.
 
MaggieD said:
There is only ONE reason Medicare works... the rest of us, through our insurance premiums and the higher bills our insurance companies pay for the same services billed to Medicare are paying to subsidize Medicare. Without those premiums and the higher costs regular insurance pays for treatments, in my opinion, half of all hospitals would close and half of all docs would quit the business, if not more.

Medicare gets billed $140 for an X-ray. They pay about $8. Your insurance company gets billed $140 bucks and generally pays very close to $140. Without that? Medicare would be dead.
Click to expand...

They pay about $8.
Click to expand...

They pay about $8 dollars? Medicare Part B (medical insurance) covers %80 percent of approved charges while Medicare part A(hospital insurance) is covered......

In response to your "cost-shifting" argument.......do-private-insurers-subsidize-public-programs?
 
jimbo said:
R & D is done primarily by for profit business. About 2/3's. In that we lead the world and bear most of worldwide costs.

There would be far more is government didn't take decades to approve new drugs. Costs would also be far less.
Click to expand...

About 65 percent of research is done by for profit business...30 percent of research is invested by Federal Gov through universities, military, ect...rest is done by Foundations.....
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Wow. Delusional comedy gold.
Click to expand...

Well, yes and no. For a number of areas a main portion of global R&D as in the pharmaceutical sector is aimed at American demand. So it is not really false to say the USA is its motor. A market that pays high prices for drugs and treatments as well as paying much more per capita than any other country market, pays the R&D costs and the others receive the products at whatever reduced price they will carry.
 
Bassman said:
And no more medical breakthroughs nor R&D. The ONLY country that has that is the US now.
Click to expand...

Heard of the U.K.?
Switzerland? Germany? China?
I worked on medical research there
Boy, such ignorance
 
Private HMOs are required by law to pay 80% of premiums to cost of care leaving 20% to run their business. Do you think the Federal governement can run medicare on only 20% ? Lol. No.




Razoo said:
In my mind after having been associated with the Medicare Single Payer Insurance movement for a few years my speculation suggests no new tax should be necessary.

- Moving funds from medicare as we know it, Medicaid, VA healthcare budget, native American health care and a budget for government employees to Single Payer should provide a substantial contribution.

- Cut corporate subsidies 50%. Cut War Budget 50%

- Single Payer eliminates CEO salaries, golden parachutes for CEO's, eliminates donations to political campaigns, eliminates all commercial advertising, eliminates bonus checks and will reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Single Payer Insurance will also eliminate 8 lobbyists per elected official and all of the money they sling throughout the halls of capitol hill..

- As we speak the government is shelling out more than $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover health care costs annually for government connected budgets.

- Leaving Medicare for ALL under a government umbrella will allow the $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover the nation if my memory serves me well. It is simply more efficient use of tax dollars.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Among the most fiscal responsible attributes is everybody pays in no matter what which reduces the cost to all of us across the board.

- There is no reinventing the wheel. It's all in place waiting to be delivered. There should be no co-pays and no deductibles.

- Nobody will ever be late paying for their insurance and all of us will be helping each other.

- No more bankruptcies due to medical bills and such.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf
Click to expand...
 
MaggieD said:
There is only ONE reason Medicare works... the rest of us, through our insurance premiums and the higher bills our insurance companies pay for the same services billed to Medicare are paying to subsidize Medicare. Without those premiums and the higher costs regular insurance pays for treatments, in my opinion, half of all hospitals would close and half of all docs would quit the business, if not more.

Medicare gets billed $140 for an X-ray. They pay about $8. Your insurance company gets billed $140 bucks and generally pays very close to $140. Without that? Medicare would be dead.
Click to expand...

I can't comment on medicare billing as I don't have any experience with it. You may be generally correct as I do know there are physicians and specialists who won't take medicare patients. I assume for that reason. I do know our GP office sees lots of them. Reimbursements amounts by insurance companies varies greatly by location and insurance company. Larger companies can usually negotiate better pricing. Here in GA I have a BCBS policy out of Minnesota from work and I just checked a few EOB's. My GP $120.00 office visit was reduced to $101.00. My $212.00 semi-annual labs were reduced to $32.00 and a visit to the skin doctor for a check up after a basal cell removal went from $111.00 to $83.00. There is a part of the reason you doctor's office has 7 people up front to handle paper work and billing for three physicians. It is the morass of paperwork, not from the government, but the insurers. What do you think additional office staff adds to the cost of our medical system?
But to address another part of your post. The same argument can be made about the effect of the uninsured. They pay nothing. The system has to absorb all of the cost. Georgia lost a handful of rural hospitals in the few years prior to O'care. The ones that are left are now worried that the trend will return.
O'care was not the answer, but the current system is not going to survive in any fashion that can serve all of society well.
 
LunaRose said:
They pay about $8 dollars? Medicare Part B (medical insurance) covers %80 percent of approved charges while Medicare part A(hospital insurance) is covered......

In response to your "cost-shifting" argument.......do-private-insurers-subsidize-public-programs?
Click to expand...

The operative words are “approved charges.” Here are some examples right from my Explanation of Benefits...

Dr. Visit....doctor billed $290. Medicare approved $114.72, of which they paid 80%. You’re right with that %.
Drugs...hospital billed $17,268.00.Medicare approve $6,341.00.
Lab Service...hospital billed $20. Medicare approved $3.
Therapy billed at $488.00. Medicare approved $147.
Lab services billed at $55. Medicare approved $10.
Dr. Visit billed at $290. Medicare approved $114.00.
Chest X-rays billed at $578. Medicare paid $48.17.

Without cost shifting, which your opinion piece clearly indicates goes on, Medicare would be out of business, as would doctors and hospitals all over the country. It’s smoke and mirrors. Try calling your hospital and asking how much it will cost to set a broken arm. They will laugh at you. Depends if you’re Medicare, Blue Cross, Humana, American Family... but the cheapest of all, without doubt, is Medicare. And every other company pays their freight.
 
Razoo said:
In my mind after having been associated with the Medicare Single Payer Insurance movement for a few years my speculation suggests no new tax should be necessary.

- Moving funds from medicare as we know it, Medicaid, VA healthcare budget, native American health care and a budget for government employees to Single Payer should provide a substantial contribution.

- Cut corporate subsidies 50%. Cut War Budget 50%

- Single Payer eliminates CEO salaries, golden parachutes for CEO's, eliminates donations to political campaigns, eliminates all commercial advertising, eliminates bonus checks and will reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Single Payer Insurance will also eliminate 8 lobbyists per elected official and all of the money they sling throughout the halls of capitol hill..

- As we speak the government is shelling out more than $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover health care costs annually for government connected budgets.

- Leaving Medicare for ALL under a government umbrella will allow the $2.5 trillion tax dollars to cover the nation if my memory serves me well. It is simply more efficient use of tax dollars.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

- Among the most fiscal responsible attributes is everybody pays in no matter what which reduces the cost to all of us across the board.

- There is no reinventing the wheel. It's all in place waiting to be delivered. There should be no co-pays and no deductibles.

- Nobody will ever be late paying for their insurance and all of us will be helping each other.

- No more bankruptcies due to medical bills and such.

== https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf
Click to expand...

Your arguments make no sense. You are simply diverting assets then claiming reduced costs. It presumes that money belongs to government to be distributed as they see fit.

If we can get by with 50% less military and subsidies. We should. Then return the money to its rightful owners. Which is not UHC or single payer.

If we can cut costs, we should. But not just to institute a new money guzzling program.

My plan:

Institute a minimum tax. Say $200/person. No exceptions, no deductions.

Reduce the dependent deduction. A hundred bucks each would be a good start.

The groups affected would be those who enjoy the largest tax advantages. No one should live in this country without some skin in the game.
 
trblmkr said:
I can't comment on medicare billing as I don't have any experience with it. You may be generally correct as I do know there are physicians and specialists who won't take medicare patients. I assume for that reason. I do know our GP office sees lots of them. Reimbursements amounts by insurance companies varies greatly by location and insurance company. Larger companies can usually negotiate better pricing. Here in GA I have a BCBS policy out of Minnesota from work and I just checked a few EOB's. My GP $120.00 office visit was reduced to $101.00. My $212.00 semi-annual labs were reduced to $32.00 and a visit to the skin doctor for a check up after a basal cell removal went from $111.00 to $83.00. There is a part of the reason you doctor's office has 7 people up front to handle paper work and billing for three physicians. It is the morass of paperwork, not from the government, but the insurers. What do you think additional office staff adds to the cost of our medical system?
But to address another part of your post. The same argument can be made about the effect of the uninsured. They pay nothing. The system has to absorb all of the cost. Georgia lost a handful of rural hospitals in the few years prior to O'care. The ones that are left are now worried that the trend will return.
O'care was not the answer, but the current system is not going to survive in any fashion that can serve all of society well.
Click to expand...

Nothing is going to survive until we get a handle on costs. Until protocols are changed. Until there is serious tort reform. Until it doesn’t take twelve years for a new drug to go from development to FDA okay. Until the approved drug ratio gets better than one in five thousand from start to finish.

Protocol of a lung module picked up first in an xray...a CAT scan. Then a PET scan. Then a biopsy. Then another PET scan. Then a push toward surgery which provides no better chance of survival than having chemotherapy and radiation.

That’s just one protocol I’m familiar with.

Doctors are,not God’s. They make mistakes. But if they vary from protocol, and even if they DON’T, a patient has a really good chance at a lawsuit that will cost millions. And we know it’s a very lucrative business since law firms advertise continually on TV with ads like, “If you have had ovarian cancer and used Johnson’s Baby Powder, you may be entitled to rich rewards. Call our office today.” Or, “If you used Xarelto and had a blood clot, call us. We’ll sue.” Xarelto was approved by the FDA, but that doesn’t matter. Side effects, even when clearly stated, don’t make any difference.

Medicaid is even worse than Medicare on what they will call “approved amount.” Try to find a doc who takes Medicaid. It is very difficult.

And, yes, all those uninsured taking their kids to the ER for colds? They cost us tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars.

It’s not finding the right insurance. It’s all about controlling costs. And neither side of the aisle is willing to tackle that. Wonder why?
 
woodsman said:
Curious, The US does do the majority of research and development with medical advances, how is the comedy. If you can show otherwise please do and be specific.
Click to expand...

It's quite simple. The claim was: "The ONLY country that has that is the US now." It didn't say anything about 'the majority'.

The US is not the only country that has R&D and medical breakthoughs.

To assert that it is is delusional. China, Germany, the UK, etc..
 
Bassman said:
HAHAHA! Prove it!
Click to expand...

LOL! Yet MORE delusional comedy gold.

You made the claim that the US is the only country that has R&D and medical breakthrought, and you've never proven it.

Ever heard of Bayer? Novartis? Astrazeneca?

No? Why am I not surprised?
 
MaggieD said:
Nothing is going to survive until we get a handle on costs. Until protocols are changed. Until there is serious tort reform. Until it doesn’t take twelve years for a new drug to go from development to FDA okay. Until the approved drug ratio gets better than one in five thousand from start to finish.

Protocol of a lung module picked up first in an xray...a CAT scan. Then a PET scan. Then a biopsy. Then another PET scan. Then a push toward surgery which provides no better chance of survival than having chemotherapy and radiation.

That’s just one protocol I’m familiar with.

Doctors are,not God’s. They make mistakes. But if they vary from protocol, and even if they DON’T, a patient has a really good chance at a lawsuit that will cost millions. And we know it’s a very lucrative business since law firms advertise continually on TV with ads like, “If you have had ovarian cancer and used Johnson’s Baby Powder, you may be entitled to rich rewards. Call our office today.” Or, “If you used Xarelto and had a blood clot, call us. We’ll sue.” Xarelto was approved by the FDA, but that doesn’t matter. Side effects, even when clearly stated, don’t make any difference.

Medicaid is even worse than Medicare on what they will call “approved amount.” Try to find a doc who takes Medicaid. It is very difficult.

And, yes, all those uninsured taking their kids to the ER for colds? They cost us tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars.

It’s not finding the right insurance. It’s all about controlling costs. And neither side of the aisle is willing to tackle that. Wonder why?
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm right there with you. We incurred 39K at Mayo in Jax (a really, really good provider that I highly recommend), last year and still do not have a diagnosis for what look like seizures. I always request itemized statements for ER or In-patient stays. The amounts billed for something have absolutely nothing to to do with the actual cost of that item. Billing is adjusted to make the bottom line work. The first thing, the absolute first thing that needs to happen is to put real costs on a ledger. What it really cost to buy that pill and a nurse deliver that pill and document the delivery of that pill. That is what that pill cost. That needs to happen throughout medicine. Your damn Dodge dealer can do it regarding a brake job.
 
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