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Our form of gvmt has never been in greater peril.

HowardBThiname said:
In other words, you got nothin'.

:lamo
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I just posted a lie, which was the easiest thing in the world to find, you can't name a single person in the Trump administration or campaign who hasn't lied about their Russian connections, and you can't even bring yourself to admit that if your son came home late and lied to you repeatedly about where he was or who he was with that you would suspect he had been up to no good. You are not good at this.
 
MaggieD said:
From Newsweek:




Whose “paranoid claim” is it now??


The Left excuses Obama’s failure to send in the cavalry when he supposedly found out the SHOCKING fact that the Russians were meddling in our election. He didn’t want to reveal it for political reasons. Simple as that. Why doesn’t the Left see that?? Politics!! And you and others are more than willing to read that analysis and agree that was a good reason!! Are you KIDDING me??


And, as this link makes clear, Obama did nothing to expose it in a prominent way. He put political interests ahead of the “shocking revelation” that the Russians were currently and actively SUPPOSEDLY interfering in our most sacred right. The right to vote. Our right to choose.


Yet, and STILL, our entire Federal security force on task couldn’t and STILL can’t identify specifically how it was happening and couldn’t stop it. Hundreds of billions of budget dollars spent on national security and STILL the best we’ve got is “the Russians meddled.” And the NEXT best thing we have is that “It’s Trump’s fault. He colluded.” [BOLD]Even FURTHER, our investigation is starting from the premise that he DID and desperately trying to make the pieces fit.[/BOLD]


Using Trump as the excuse, his saying he might not accept the results, HC calling that “HORRIFYING.” Saying his statement is frightening. A threat to the very core of our Republic! Yet who is it that is not accepting the results?? Who is it that is tearing this nation apart?? The Democrats... led by standard bearer HC.


Is the left as HORRIFIED that the DNC purposefully got rid of Bernie? It did. We all know. No, of course not. THAT was CLEARLY an effective disenfranchisement of the American people’s right to choose. And not one powerful Leftist gives a damn.


What we’ve got here is a coupe attempt. A desperate and seemingly pretty effective run at destroying the opposition, destroying the POTUS and delegitimizing the election itself. And our politicians, desperate to keep their jobs, holding up a finger in the wind to see which way it’s blowing and deciding their loyalties NOT on what is best for this COUNTRY. Oh, no! “What’s the best way for me to retain my seat.”


Believe this old lady. Our nation, our form of government and its survival has never been in greater peril in all its history.

Discussion?
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We're in peril because so many Americans have put loyalty to political party over loyalty to country. For the good of the political party instead of for the good of the nation. If the Republicans proposes something, the Democrats oppose it, if the Democrats propose something, the GOP opposes it. Neither party will give the proposals thought, decide whether it is good or bad for the country. The only thing that matters is the other party proposed this or wanted this legislation, so we have to be against it. Both parties think the other party is the worst enemy, the worst threat facing this nation. Neither is willing to work with the other for the good of the nation.

There were quite a few Republicans that outright wanted Obama to fail so one of their own could be elected. Today, the Democrats are trying to destroy Trump and they won't stop even if it also means destroying the nation. It is our two major parties that have put this nation in peril. We're destroying ourselves and we are destroying ourselves from within. Being an R or a D has become more important than being an American. Do we want a strong and secure American, each major party answer is if it is my party in power. If my party isn't in power, then we need to weaken America and perhaps destroy it so my party can get into power. Even if that means there is no nation left.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
Thanks so much for telling people who vote differently than you they can leave..... Won't ever happen! You lost the election get over it. Trump is president and will be for the next 3 + years.
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You won and you're whining that some Americans are protesting your guy. You need to get over it.
 
DaveFagan said:
Israel meddled in our election and always does. AIPAC, wealthy donors and if its' good for one its' good for all. Comparatively speaking, I don't see Russian meddling. I see a Corporate owned governmental structure that has been nurtured by the Patriot Act, Citizens United, the AUMF, and Big Banking collusion. I see Russia continually being forced to defend itself against collusive economic attack. I see the USA using the "fiat dollar" and its' support structure being used as a weapon. I see the War Industry ginning up business/war all over the World. Does the War Industry want to wipe out ISIS? Hell, no! It's the Golden Goose. This same Deep State wants to control our President, just like Israel, or UK, or Russia, or China and creates an environment of illusions of freedom and democracy. If our last election represents democracy, we are in deep doodoo, and we are. Local Police are armed and trained like the Military because a Police State is coming.
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You see everything BUT a KNOWN Russian attempt to influence the election.....

Simply amazing.
 
Our form of gvmt has never been in greater peril.
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well, i'd argue that it was in greater peril in 1812, during the Civil War, and while the US was fighting the Nazis, Italy, and the Japanese Empire at the same time. the current investigation of Donald Trump's campaign and his alleged collusion with the Russian government pales in comparison to those events.
 
Threegoofs said:
It's also not 'violating the Constitution' if a court needs to argue it and vote to interpret it.
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It's unconstitutional if a court says it's unconstitutional. Yes? Especially, if the EO sidesteps The Constitution.
 
iguanaman said:
So now whataboutism has become an excuse for the Trump campaigns collusion with Russia? I don't think so. It is illegal.
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I don't make excuses for the Donald.

Looks to me that both parties have a lot of answering to do when it comes to Russia, especially if that dossier was used for FISA warrants.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I don't make excuses for the Donald.

Looks to me that both parties have a lot of answering to do when it comes to Russia, especially if that dossier was used for FISA warrants.
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In that case we are also at "WTF judges!".
 
Cardinal said:
I just posted a lie, which was the easiest thing in the world to find, you can't name a single person in the Trump administration or campaign who hasn't lied about their Russian connections, and you can't even bring yourself to admit that if your son came home late and lied to you repeatedly about where he was or who he was with that you would suspect he had been up to no good. You are not good at this.
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I'm just being honest.

You've admitted that you're lying.

I believe honesty is better than non-honesty, so I really don't think you have a grasp of who is good at this and who isn't.

;)
 
What if...? said:
If you acknowledged that your side does the same ****ing thing we might get somewhere.

Both sides point to the other and cry "manipulators!" while ignoring their own manipulators.

This is the EXACT phenomenon you are pointing to. The EXACT technique used by Fox and Limbaugh and Hannity.
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Well, you missed or ignored the point completely.

Propaganda does not attempt to prove your enemy is wrong. It attempts to prove they are inhuman.

AFTER this is accomplished, THEN ALL of the lies and distortions are acceptable.

IF Trump is a racist, THEN all of his programs are tainted. The left constantly and incessantly calls him a racist and there is NO PROOF that he is.

Sexist. Same thing.

Buffoon. Same thing.

Russian collusion. Same thing.

The left is running a propaganda campaign not to make people disagree with Trump, but to make them hate Trump.

Almost ALL of the attributes they ascribe to Trump are basic to their tactics.

They depend on the blindly biased, propaganda poisoned mob to react like Zombies and continue to hate in spite of what is actually happening right in front of their eyes.

As H.L. Mencken wrote:

"No one... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

All you need to do to be a pretty smart guy is listen to those who really were smart. The Political elite strive to be smart and use whatever plagiarism works at the moment to serve their needs. Their needs are usually biased and their methods are usually underhanded.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Americans can meddle in the worlds elections and still reserve the right to be furious when it happens to them.
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Indeed. We must never forget Obama actually coming to the UK and telling the Brits to vote to remain in the EU. Who the bloody hell did he think he was?
 
SheWolf said:
Who is being dehumanized? How?
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Trump is being dehumanized.

The method is to reduce him to catch phrases and labels that are reviled so that he will also be reviled.

So he is racist. No need for you to seek proof- all you need to do is hate him. Just call him a sexist. Same. Anything that is reviled is okay to attach to him at this point. There are many on this board who will, with certitude say that Trump had nothing to do with the recent release of the basketball players. They will probably use this action as further proof of his racism.

When Trump condemned the violence on BOTH sides held by the hate-filled terrorists in whatever city it was when Antifa and the KKK fought, he was called a racist.

Wait! What? THIS was the ideal example to follow. This could have been used to show the corrosive nature of blind hate in whatever guise it assumes and to publicize the shared tactics of the hate filled mobs.

Instead, our hate-filled media used this to incite the weak minded mob to reinforce the classification of Trump as a racist.

Incredible!
 
code1211 said:
Well, you missed or ignored the point completely.

Propaganda does not attempt to prove your enemy is wrong. It attempts to prove they are inhuman.

AFTER this is accomplished, THEN ALL of the lies and distortions are acceptable.

IF Trump is a racist, THEN all of his programs are tainted. The left constantly and incessantly calls him a racist and there is NO PROOF that he is.

Sexist. Same thing.

Buffoon. Same thing.

Russian collusion. Same thing.

The left is running a propaganda campaign not to make people disagree with Trump, but to make them hate Trump.

Almost ALL of the attributes they ascribe to Trump are basic to their tactics.

They depend on the blindly biased, propaganda poisoned mob to react like Zombies and continue to hate in spite of what is actually happening right in front of their eyes.

As H.L. Mencken wrote:

"No one... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

All you need to do to be a pretty smart guy is listen to those who really were smart. The Political elite strive to be smart and use whatever plagiarism works at the moment to serve their needs. Their needs are usually biased and their methods are usually underhanded.
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Yes. And the right did the same **** to Obama.

And trump IS a bufoon.

Bigly. Preening jackass.

He's also lost his edge. Is declining.

His command of the language is failing.

And I'll put you down as one of those who cheers when their side does it and cries when the other side does.

Instead of condemning both for doing it.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I'm just being honest.

You've admitted that you're lying.

I believe honesty is better than non-honesty, so I really don't think you have a grasp of who is good at this and who isn't.

;)
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You were briefly honest in a rare moment of lucidity, but that it.

You can't even admit that you would find it deeply suspicious if your son repeatedly lied about where he was and who he was with, because any human being with two brain cells to rub together would; and you refuse to acknowledge that that that same suspicion is warranted with an administration and campaign that has lied one hundred percent about the time about its connections with Russians, a fact you have already acknowledged (that brief moment of lucidity I referred to). So as a result, instead of taking an honorable position, you've resorted to trolling me in full because, in your mind, hard core trolling is acceptable in the face of being wrong before a liberal.

I knew from reading your posts in the past that you were hard to the right on any issue and a Trump supporters, but you've lowered yourself in this thread, Howard.
 
Cardinal said:
You were briefly honest in a rare moment of lucidity, but that it.
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Hey, you're the one who said you'd lied. I don't lie. I'm honest all the time.

You can't even admit that you would find it deeply suspicious if your son repeatedly lied about where he was and who he was with, because any human being with two brain cells to rub together would; and you refuse to acknowledge that that that same suspicion is warranted with an administration and campaign that has lied one hundred percent about the time about its connections with Russians, a fact you have already acknowledged (that brief moment of lucidity I referred to). So as a result, instead of taking an honorable position, you've resorted to trolling me in full because, in your mind, hard core trolling is acceptable in the face of being wrong before a liberal.
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Look, you put forth a lazy comparison that any parent could answer, but that didn't relate to anything other than parenting/discipline. You continue to make exclusionary statements such as "literally everyone," or, as in this last post, "one hundred percent." That's where you lose credibility because no one lies "100%" and not "literally everyone" has lied. It throws your whole argument over the edge. You asked me for one person who had not lied about being connected with Russian election meddling and I put forth Trump. That was a direct answer to your question, yet it appears to have angered you. Trump hasn't been on the stand. Trump hasn't been shown to be lying about Russia, but you didn't like that, so you made the lazy parent comparison.


I knew from reading your posts in the past that you were hard to the right on any issue and a Trump supporters, but you've lowered yourself in this thread, Howard.
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I'm actually more of a centrist, but consider that you may be so far to the Left that anyone in the middle appears to be far-right to you.

I've been honest in this thread, and you know that. You're just upset because your comparison games backfired.

Here's an idea. Try supporting your position using your own arguments, rather than attempting to trap another through word- and situation-twisting. If your argument is strong -- and valid -- you'll should be able to pull it off, without lying. If you're on shaky ground, however, as you were here, you'll just be repeating the same mistakes again.

Think about it.
 
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