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Our form of gvmt has never been in greater peril.

code1211 said:
You asked who was being dehumanized. I responded. I made no mention of the First Amendment or the rights it gaurantees.

What point are you making now? The same one I made previously?

My previous point: The methodology of propaganda is to dehumanize your enemy. The First Amendment protects the rights of propagandists as well as real, ethical journalists.

Do you disagree that propaganda is published as straight news right now, everyday? If yes, watch a half hour of FOX and and a half hour of CNN and tell me there is not difference in the coverage of current events.

I put forth an example on Trump condemning the violence on both sides of the confrontation between the hate filled Klan types and the hate filled Antifa types.

On more than one occasion, Obama took a side in a racially charged dispute and was applauded. Trump condemns the hate without taking a side and is condemned AS A RACIST!

IF taking a side based solely on Race is ethically good or condemning hate is ethically bad, I'm confused on the ethics that allows these positions to be supported, ethically, by the reporting.
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You're doing the same in your post. You are calling Obama a racist, defending Trump, and acting like anybody calling Trump a racist is dehumanizing him. A lot of Trump supporters act like anybody not supporting Trump is brainwashed by the MSM.

Trump is deeply unpopular. Trump polls as the least unpopular president in the history of polling. How can that be the medias fault?

The problem with Trump supporters is that you have all followed a demagogue. The man said he would build a wall around Mexico and give you the greatest health care imaginable. He has failed to do anything he promised, and that isn't the fault of the media. Trump ran on empty rhetoric. He ran on chants of "lock her up," and now that he sits in the white house and his former campaign operatives are under investigation, Trump supporters scream and cry that the country is in ruins because of an investigation. The investigation isn't even over, but his supporters already know the outcome... it's unfair to Trump... it's the democrats and media looking for an excuse for having lost the election.

The country isn't an any more danger than it was under Obama. It's the same country. There is a lot of division and a lot of radical right wingers and left wingers, but it's not 100% of the country.
 
BitterPill said:
Russian 'democracy' - that's rich with irony.

We need to be more like the Russians, not less. We need to make Trump president for life. Only then will America be great again!

MAGA, baby, MAGA!

PS RT rocks!
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What are you even talking about? What world do you live in? Putin has not been in "power for life." His political career has been shorter than the political career of Hillary Clinton, or this esteemed American politician of yours.

Look... Americans (like you) don't even know one damn thing about your own country, so, spare me your insinuation you all are experts on every other country on earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Conyers


John James Conyers Jr.
May 16, 1929 (age 88)
Highland Park, Michigan, U.S.
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In total, he has won re-election twenty-five times and is serving in his twenty-sixth term. He is the longest-serving current member of the House, the longest-serving current member of the entire Congress, the fourth longest-serving member of the House in history, and the seventh longest-serving member of Congress in history. He is the second-longest serving member of either house of Congress in Michigan's history, trailing only his former boss, Dingell. He is also the last member of the large Democratic freshman class of 1964 who is still serving in the House.
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The man is 88 years of age and is more comparable to the former leader of Zimbabwe than he is to Putin.

Brazil has a multi[arty democracy. The United States has a two party democracy. Cuba has a one party government. By math the USA is closer to Cuba than it is to Brazil. I forget the exact number of *major* political parties in Brazil but I know it is more than 3 and I think 5. It might be 7. Then they have numerous smaller parties under those.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-party_system

A multi-party system is a system in which multiple political parties across the political spectrum run for national election, and all have the capacity to gain control of government offices, separately or in coalition.[1] Apart from one-party-dominant and two-party systems, multi-party systems tend to be more common in parliamentary systems than presidential systems and far more common in countries that use proportional representation compared to countries that use first-past-the-post elections.
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Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Lebanon, Mexico, Moldova, Nepal, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, the Philippines, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Tunisia and Ukraine are examples of nations that have used a multi-party system effectively in their democracies.
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FastPace said:
What are you even talking about? What world do you live in? Putin has not been in "power for life." His political career has been shorter than the political career of Hillary Clinton, or this esteemed American politician of yours.

Look... Americans (like you) don't even know one damn thing about your own country, so, spare me your insinuation you all are experts on every other country on earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Conyers







The man is 88 years of age and is more comparable to the former leader of Zimbabwe than he is to Putin.

Brazil has a multi[arty democracy. The United States has a two party democracy. Cuba has a one party government. By math the USA is closer to Cuba than it is to Brazil. I forget the exact number of *major* political parties in Brazil but I know it is more than 3 and I think 5. It might be 7. Then they have numerous smaller parties under those.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-party_system
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At least you 'esteem' Trump, a point in your honor, or should I write honour? And wikipedia is fake-news as opposed to wikileaks.

Lock her up!
 
JMR said:
Very good explanation for why some Americans have come to believe the concept of "Fake News" Now anything that is reported is obviously not true. Donald may do as he pleases.
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If that's what you understood from what I posted, no news would have any impact on you. You seem to read whatever you please into the printed words.

Propaganda is published from all points on the political spectrum every day in our society by our various media sources.

The best course of action is to sample as many sources as possible and try to knit together a story that makes sense based on the outcomes that can be demonstrated by statistics or actual facts.

As an example, the narrative from the network news seems to be that Trump is a loose cannon and the US is hated internationally and the world is uniting against the US as the result of his Presidency.

In the real world, 50 Arab Muslim Majority Nations Unite behind Trump's leadership to fight Fundamentalist Islamic Terror, The UNSC unanimously condemns N. Korea, NATO Nations are all increasing their contributions to support the alliance, the world economy is improving, the US Stock Markets are sky rocketing and there is an unending parade in international leaders visiting or hosting Trump and making deals that benefit US business.

Either the narrative, change to read "propaganda", is wrong or the real world facts are wrong.
 
poweRob said:
4 months I believe.
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Thank you! I've never even tried to find that out. I lived through it and it seemed like it took a lot longer than it should have.

I've been negotiating stuff on various levels in various capacities for my whole life.

I've never once, at any time for any reason in any situation on any deal considered the shape or even the existence of a table.
 
SheWolf said:
You're doing the same in your post. You are calling Obama a racist, defending Trump, and acting like anybody calling Trump a racist is dehumanizing him. A lot of Trump supporters act like anybody not supporting Trump is brainwashed by the MSM.

Trump is deeply unpopular. Trump polls as the least unpopular president in the history of polling. How can that be the medias fault?

The problem with Trump supporters is that you have all followed a demagogue. The man said he would build a wall around Mexico and give you the greatest health care imaginable. He has failed to do anything he promised, and that isn't the fault of the media. Trump ran on empty rhetoric. He ran on chants of "lock her up," and now that he sits in the white house and his former campaign operatives are under investigation, Trump supporters scream and cry that the country is in ruins because of an investigation. The investigation isn't even over, but his supporters already know the outcome... it's unfair to Trump... it's the democrats and media looking for an excuse for having lost the election.

The country isn't an any more danger than it was under Obama. It's the same country. There is a lot of division and a lot of radical right wingers and left wingers, but it's not 100% of the country.
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I did not call Obama a racist. I said he was applauded.

I cited actual events compared the classifications applied by the media. YOU inferred something that I did not write.

How can an erroneous public impression be the fault of the media that labors 24 hours each to create that erroneous impression? Do you read your posts before you post them. The Liberal propagandists are relaying half truths, innuendo, unsupported rumors and quotes out of context to create the impression you hold.

You are a victim of media malpractice. Creating your impression is the outcome they desire.

The third paragraph is a delusional rant.

Our form of government is in great peril. Under Obama, the DOJ illegally attacked non-union businesses using dictatorial harassment. The IRS illegally attacked people to limit the first amendment freedoms. The EPA attacked private citizens for creating ponds on private property. The DNC paid for the creation of this ridiculous dossier that Mueller is using to conduct his witch hunt. A POLITICAL PARTY used the power of government to advance its agenda.

The best way to unify any group, even one as large as the US Population, is to first concentrate on what we share in common.

"We", "us", "together" and "united" are good words for our politicians to use.

Words like "them", any cited group that starts with the word "the" like the "the rich" or creating any imagined opposing pair like "rich and poor", "cops and blacks, "white and black", "native born and immigrant" is bad for unity.

Any denial of the rule of law is bad. If anyone must break the law to be moral, then the law needs to be changed. Our lawmakers have no interest in justice or fairness as long as they are re-elected. This is what defines our Federal Government.

In our current system, the way it is practiced by the expediently political, outlaws are embraced and the rule of law is rejected in favor of personality or identity. The powerful criminal goes free while the unconnected gets jail time.

This is a recipe for disaster. The Black Guy wrongly convicted who rots in jail and Hillary who was not convicted despite her crimes and goes free are two sides of the same coin.
 
code1211 said:
Thank you! I've never even tried to find that out. I lived through it and it seemed like it took a lot longer than it should have.

I've been negotiating stuff on various levels in various capacities for my whole life.

I've never once, at any time for any reason in any situation on any deal considered the shape or even the existence of a table.
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Was watching the PBS Vietnam documentary just the other day when they covered this.
 
code1211 said:
If that's what you understood from what I posted, no news would have any impact on you. You seem to read whatever you please into the printed words.

Propaganda is published from all points on the political spectrum every day in our society by our various media sources.

The best course of action is to sample as many sources as possible and try to knit together a story that makes sense based on the outcomes that can be demonstrated by statistics or actual facts.

As an example, the narrative from the network news seems to be that Trump is a loose cannon and the US is hated internationally and the world is uniting against the US as the result of his Presidency.

In the real world, 50 Arab Muslim Majority Nations Unite behind Trump's leadership to fight Fundamentalist Islamic Terror, The UNSC unanimously condemns N. Korea, NATO Nations are all increasing their contributions to support the alliance, the world economy is improving, the US Stock Markets are sky rocketing and there is an unending parade in international leaders visiting or hosting Trump and making deals that benefit US business.

Either the narrative, change to read "propaganda", is wrong or the real world facts are wrong.
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And also, your original statement:
Propaganda does not attempt to prove your enemy is wrong. It attempts to prove they are inhuman.

AFTER this is accomplished, THEN ALL of the lies and distortions are acceptable.
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Leaving your insults aside I would repeat that the TRUMP WHITE HOUSE's use of propaganda against the press fits nicely into your description. He has after all described the press as the enemy of the people. Once this bs is bought, all of his lies and alternative facts become acceptable. It is difficult to see how that is an unreasonable reading of your post.

I quite understand that propaganda is published by many and/or all sources. It seems to me to be important to measure the level and intensity of propaganda, unproven stories, unsubstantiated accusations, and political agenda of the publishing agencies. And excuse me just one critique of your analysis above: just today press reports indicate that there has been a marked drop in international leaders visiting and/or hosting Trump, that Washington is becoming more and more isolated and allies have no real confidence of their status with Trump. So indeed, it is important to check a variety of press sources before forming hard opinion. Your real world facts are a bit of a cherry picking expedition, and not at all conclusive, some of them (i.e. stock market rising due to Trump) patently misdirected.
 
JMR said:
And also, your original statement:

Leaving your insults aside I would repeat that the TRUMP WHITE HOUSE's use of propaganda against the press fits nicely into your description. He has after all described the press as the enemy of the people. Once this bs is bought, all of his lies and alternative facts become acceptable. It is difficult to see how that is an unreasonable reading of your post.

I quite understand that propaganda is published by many and/or all sources. It seems to me to be important to measure the level and intensity of propaganda, unproven stories, unsubstantiated accusations, and political agenda of the publishing agencies. And excuse me just one critique of your analysis above: just today press reports indicate that there has been a marked drop in international leaders visiting and/or hosting Trump, that Washington is becoming more and more isolated and allies have no real confidence of their status with Trump. So indeed, it is important to check a variety of press sources before forming hard opinion. Your real world facts are a bit of a cherry picking expedition, and not at all conclusive, some of them (i.e. stock market rising due to Trump) patently misdirected.
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You really have a way of reading your own bias into my posts.

You posted that I said that the Stock Markets have risen due to Trump. What I posted is that the Stock Markets have risen. What you infer and what I post are seemingly unrelated.

Trump is putting forth propaganda. He and his staff are striving to sell his agenda. Trump, like Obama and all before them, are salesmen. Like any salesman, they are endorsing a particular line of thought on a particular line of goods.

We all know they are doing it and we all know what they are doing. Nothing nefarious and nothing misdirecting. Trump says it and he said it. Or Tweeted it.

Due to constraints of space and time, all outlets edit content. Editing can be fair or unfair, very fair or very unfair.

When more than 90% of coverage and more is negative, this preponderance points to editorial decisions being made that are unfair.

When the News networks pick out a damaging 5 second bite of a 90 minute speech specifically selected to create a negative impression of Trump that is unrelated to anything he said, but was an off hand joke, THAT is propaganda.

When they show him dumping fish food into a pond and the voice over says he's doing it stupidly after editing out the previous similar action by his host, THAT'S propaganda.

You would help yourself to wake up to the facts and stop trying to justify the obviously untrue.

Regarding the declining number of visits or hostings that you seem to think is occurring, when was Trump in Asia negotiating the pardon of the UCLA moron basketball players?

How deeply mired in the haze of propaganda do you live?



[h=1]propaganda[/h]

[h=3][/h]
[prop-uh-gan-duh]
Spell Syllables



See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun1.information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help orharm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

2.the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.

3.the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization ormovement.


 
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You spend quite a bit of time trying to change the meaning of your posts.

As an example, the narrative from the network news seems to be that Trump is a loose cannon and the US is hated internationally and the world is uniting against the US as the result of his Presidency.

In the real world, 50 Arab Muslim Majority Nations Unite behind Trump's leadership to fight Fundamentalist Islamic Terror, The UNSC unanimously condemns N. Korea, NATO Nations are all increasing their contributions to support the alliance, the world economy is improving, the US Stock Markets are sky rocketing and there is an unending parade in international leaders visiting or hosting Trump and making deals that benefit US business.
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You accidentally typed In the Real World to introduce your string of "accomplishments" ???? You were not drawing a difference between those and your previous statement about how network news would have us believe he is a loose cannon?

Save me your condescending dictionary postings...though I imagine you find yourself very entertaining.
 
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