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False allegations of sexual abuse- The rise of the fine lie

Kobie said:
Someone who works for a sign language interpreting company hired by a canpaign is now a “campaigner”?
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Have you ever been involved in a public political event such as that? Everyone involved is a supporter, if not more involved. They don't signers off the street. Plenty of signers out there today, no one's going to pull a Trump supporter to a Hillary rally.
 
Aristaeus said:
False allegations of sexual abuse should of course be punished, but women who make allegations against men should not be accused of making false claims just because the man they're accusing belongs to the political party you support.
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Both should be given the benefit of the doubt until all facts are in.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Have you ever been involved in a public political event such as that? Everyone involved is a supporter, if not more involved. They don't signers off the street. Plenty of signers out there today, no one's going to pull a Trump supporter to a Hillary rally.
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How many professional signing companies are there in Alabama? It is a niche business and she was hired to provide a service. Breaking news: it is possible to keep politics out of your professional career. It's just another attempt to discredit the accuser.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Well, isn't that interesting? A Hillary campaigner making accusations against a conservative GOP candidate.

Fascinating.
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Don't get me wrong, she may still be legitimate, and this all may be a coincidence.

But when was the last time you read, or heard about such a thing in the political arena?
 
HowardBThiname said:
I'm suspicious as well. While I don't want to disregard any true accusations, as you say, it's common for these types of allegations to come out against someone when they run for office. I've not heard about one of Moore's accusers having worked for the DNC, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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Lives will be ruined for sure, and reputations smeared beyond repair. Pity on them if they are wrongly accusing a man/woman because they are being coaxed to do so or for personal motive.
Pity on the man or woman who abuses. I don't see much difference between the two.
We don't know and we shouldn't rush to judgment. Some accusers are very convincing. Abusers are good at covering up their deeds.
Having these accusations come out perfectly timed, with little room to investigate before the upcoming election, that makes me very suspicious. Again, we don't know.
If Moore is an abuser, he will have to face his ultimate judge. If he is innocent, then what? The elections will be over, his reputation smeared, distrust and rumors abound. He can't come back from that.
If the women were indeed abused, assaulted, harassed, of course we have to empathize. Statute of limitations has run out, but we can see to that they get proper help. If they made up a story, they will have to carry their burden, which is in no way comparable to the harm they have done.
So again, we don't know. I will not be someone's judge and jury without knowing more, having all the facts and enough time to get to the bottom of this.
How many were convinced that those rich white boys at Duke were guilty?
 
Aristaeus said:
How many professional signing companies are there in Alabama? It is a niche business and she was hired to provide a service. Breaking news: it is possible to keep politics out of your professional career. It's just another attempt to discredit the accuser.
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You'd have to look up the number of "signing companies." I've never actually heard of one, but, around here, a good number of people sign and will sign for various events.

While you're correct that someone can sign for an event and not support that event, that's pretty unlikely to happen in politics, especially if the signer is a supporter of the opposing party.
 
Oborosen said:
Don't get me wrong, she may still be legitimate, and this all may be a coincidence.

But when was the last time you read, or heard about such a thing in the political arena?
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It's extremely rare, and, when added to the other oddities surrounding these accusations, it seems important.
 
HowardBThiname said:
You'd have to look up the number of "signing companies." I've never actually heard of one, but, around here, a good number of people sign and will sign for various events.

While you're correct that someone can sign for an event and not support that event, that's pretty unlikely to happen in politics, especially if the signer is a supporter of the opposing party.
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Alabama.com found 6 more locals saying it was well known he was hunting teenagers, so far. Somehow I see more coming. Your going to have a tough time challenging all of them. Hannity has even come around.
 
HowardBThiname said:
You'd have to look up the number of "signing companies." I've never actually heard of one, but, around here, a good number of people sign and will sign for various events.

While you're correct that someone can sign for an event and not support that event, that's pretty unlikely to happen in politics, especially if the signer is a supporter of the opposing party.
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As has been explained in a previous post, signing seems to be one of those careers where people put politics to one side for the benefit of the community. Just like a Trump supporting paramedic wouldn't refuse to help someone injured at a democratic convention or a Clinton supporting breakdown mechanic wouldn't refuse to help a stranded Trump supporter.
 
HowardBThiname said:
It's extremely rare, and, when added to the other oddities surrounding these accusations, it seems important.
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I think thbe largest problems with all of this is the timing, and the fact that we now know Hillary. Or to that extension the DNC may actually have a hand in it at some level. Given the fact that we know that Hillary's touch is a rather corrupting element in nature, and that in general the DNC is one of her own little playthings. We must be open to the idea that this could be just another political ploy.

My worst problem with the accusations, is that one of the stories supplied by the article I originally read. Said that the girl went to a photo booth with Moore, and yet we see a lack of photographs available in the articles. Not just of her & Moore, but of all of the girls in this current mess.
 
Aristaeus said:
False allegations of sexual abuse should of course be punished, but women who make allegations against men should not be accused of making false claims just because the man they're accusing belongs to the political party you support.
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Oh the ****ing irony. :roll:
 
Lovebug said:
Lives will be ruined for sure, and reputations smeared beyond repair. Pity on them if they are wrongly accusing a man/woman because they are being coaxed to do so or for personal motive.
Pity on the man or woman who abuses. I don't see much difference between the two.
We don't know and we shouldn't rush to judgment. Some accusers are very convincing. Abusers are good at covering up their deeds.
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That's the smartest way to proceed -- just don't rush to judgement. More will either come out, or not, as time passes, but these things tend to fade away after an election, no matter who wins.

Having these accusations come out perfectly timed, with little room to investigate before the upcoming election, that makes me very suspicious. Again, we don't know.
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I admit to being suspicious as well. The problem is that the special election is next month so people are going to be making snap judgement calls.

If Moore is an abuser, he will have to face his ultimate judge. If he is innocent, then what? The elections will be over, his reputation smeared, distrust and rumors abound. He can't come back from that.
If the women were indeed abused, assaulted, harassed, of course we have to empathize. Statute of limitations has run out, but we can see to that they get proper help. If they made up a story, they will have to carry their burden, which is in no way comparable to the harm they have done.
So again, we don't know. I will not be someone's judge and jury without knowing more, having all the facts and enough time to get to the bottom of this.
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The smartest thing voters could do - in my opinion - is just vote the way they intended to vote last month. Then, if Moore wins, and the women persist in their allegations and real evidence points toward Moore's guilt, he can always step down.
How many were convinced that those rich white boys at Duke were guilty?
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Nearly an entire nation was playing the mob trying to lynch those boys. It was something we all should have learned from.

False allegations happen more often than we like to admit, and they can destroy lives.
 
Aristaeus said:
False allegations of sexual abuse should of course be punished, but women who make allegations against men should not be accused of making false claims just because the man they're accusing belongs to the political party you support.
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This post pretty much should have ended the thread.
 
Aristaeus said:
False allegations of sexual abuse should of course be punished, but women who make allegations against men should not be accused of making false claims just because the man they're accusing belongs to the political party you support.
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The problem we're running into is that our justice system philosophy says that a person is innocent until proved guilty. If we assume the accused's innocence, by default we're saying that the accuser is making false claims.

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. If we could strengthen our legal punishment for those who lie about sexual abuse, we might deter more of the liars.

But, if we immediately jump to judgement on the accused, especially if that person vehemently denies the charges, we are a part of the bandwagon that's destroying his reputation.

It's a fine line but we should err on the side of caution.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Have you ever been involved in a public political event such as that? Everyone involved is a supporter, if not more involved. They don't signers off the street. Plenty of signers out there today, no one's going to pull a Trump supporter to a Hillary rally.
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Really? So when Hillary campaigned in my town, every cop, traffic director, paramedic, and yes, sign language interpreter who worked the event was a de facto Hillary supporter?
 
CletusWilbury said:
Alabama.com found 6 more locals saying it was well known he was hunting teenagers, so far. Somehow I see more coming. Your going to have a tough time challenging all of them. Hannity has even come around.
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Personally, I don't plan to challenge any of them, but it behooves us to look at the backgrounds and activities before we pass mass judgement on someone who just might be innocent.

Right?
 
Kobie said:
Really? So when Hillary campaigned in my town, every cop, traffic director, paramedic, and yes, sign language interpreter who worked the event was a de facto Hillary supporter?
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Yes, that's how this works.
 
Aristaeus said:
As has been explained in a previous post, signing seems to be one of those careers where people put politics to one side for the benefit of the community. Just like a Trump supporting paramedic wouldn't refuse to help someone injured at a democratic convention or a Clinton supporting breakdown mechanic wouldn't refuse to help a stranded Trump supporter.
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I find that highly unlikely.
 
Oborosen said:
I think thbe largest problems with all of this is the timing, and the fact that we now know Hillary. Or to that extension the DNC may actually have a hand in it at some level. Given the fact that we know that Hillary's touch is a rather corrupting element in nature, and that in general the DNC is one of her own little playthings. We must be open to the idea that this could be just another political ploy.

My worst problem with the accusations, is that one of the stories supplied by the article I originally read. Said that the girl went to a photo booth with Moore, and yet we see a lack of photographs available in the articles. Not just of her & Moore, but of all of the girls in this current mess.
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There's a lot missing in the women's accusations, as you point out. And, now we're hearing about rumors of people being offered money to "come forward." That doesn't really sit well with me.
 
countryboy said:
It's self explanatory.
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No, it really isn't. What was it about my post that was ironic?

"False allegations of sexual abuse should of course be punished, but women who make allegations against men should not be accused of making false claims just because the man they're accusing belongs to the political party you support."

Nothing ironic there.
 
Aristaeus said:
False allegations of sexual abuse should of course be punished, but women who make allegations against men should not be accused of making false claims just because the man they're accusing belongs to the political party you support.
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:yt

Yep that. Nails it perfectly.

In the states, laws should be changed/improved when theres PROOF of FALSE allegations made. Not just loosing the case but it must be proven the allegations were false and fabricated. These people are also criminals and in that case the accused is now the victium in the end.

Also YES, the accused and the accuser should not be judged based on political party or anything else along that lie gender, race, religion, sexual orientation etc. We cant stop the jury of public opinion, thats going to happen no matter what, but we can be better at not throwing gas on the fire.

I'm happy theres an increase in both women and men speaking up about this stuff! It shows people are less afraid, people are less tolerant of this behavior and we are getting better at not rushing to judgment in either direction. As a society we are still NOT GOOD at it but better. That's awesome! Like i said in another thread initially false stories will increase just like anything we start actually cracking down on, thats the unfortunate nature of the beast but I gladly welcome it because it also means means actual criminals or sleazeballs are outted/caught. WE just have to do our job as people to not leap to conclusions and do our part to be fair, look at evidence/circumstance. We cant let the criminals in either direction get away and harm their victims.

Things will get better in this regard!
 
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