Why The Term 'Black-On-Black' Crime Is Veiled Racism

ultmd · Nov 14, 2017

AlbqOwl said:
Sure. Criminals most often go to the cities where they are less conspicuous, less likely to be noticed, and where it is easier to disappear. All I am arguing is that poverty in and of itself is not necessarily a recipe for a high crime society. And we should have learned by now that just throwing money at poverty doesn't fix anything and likely encourages more of it.

LOL, I think it's pretty obvious what your argument really is, AlbqOwl. The link to the so-called "trusted source" you provided (i.e. the white identity publication) pretty much gave it away. You share the editorial opinions of the author of the column (and founding editor of the magazine itself), Jarod Taylor. The only difference between your arguments and the views expressed by Taylor and his publication (i.e. American Renaissance) seems to be that they proudly own their true views, while you only hint at them.

AlbqOwl · Nov 14, 2017

ultmd said:
LOL, I think it's pretty obvious what your argument really is, AlbqOwl. The link to the so-called "trusted source" you provided (i.e. the white identity publication) pretty much gave it away. You share the editorial opinions of the author of the column (and founding editor of the magazine itself), Jarod Taylor. The only difference between your arguments and the views expressed by Taylor and his publication (i.e. American Renaissance) seems to be that they proudly own their true views, while you only hint at them.

Again, in a previous post, I already did my mea culpa inadvertently using an American Renaissance link. I was going after the government data quoted in the link. I normally would never use American Renaissance as a source any more than I would use Media Matters or other dishonest leftwing sites as a source. American Renaissance is not my cup of tea and I do not support their emphasis in any way.

FastPace · Nov 14, 2017

Geoist said:
To compare inner cities to rural or even suburban settings is comparing apples to oranges. Urban settings mean more people in closer vicinity. Higher crime in cities has been a problem for centuries, no matter the race.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w5430.pdf

This not entirely true, and has not been for decades.

When back in the 1990s I pulled into the Chicago suburb of Maywood, Illinois (at a White Castle there) there was as much gang activity there as there was in Chicago or Milwaukee. In fact Maywood back ten boasted a murder rate far higher than either cities, the murder rate back then was something like 80 per 100,000 people. Much higher than even the nationally known (in the Hip Hop world) LA suburb of Compton, California which then circa that time period had a murder rate of roughly 60 per 100,000.

As impoverished (not wealthy or middle-class) blacks of Chicago flee to more suburbs of Chicago be sure they will bring their culture of violence with them.

"Only The Strong Survive" (The Maywood Documentary)

Atwill Williams
Published on Nov 28, 2013

Documentation of Maywood,IL aka The Murderwoods.
Film produced by Atwill Williams & Stevina Hampton.

In year 2015 this was the homicide rate of Maywood, Illinois: 53.9 per 100,000. (Source: Maywood, Illinois (IL 60153) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news, sex offenders)

Santiago, Chile in Latin America, a city of over at least 1 million people, has generally had murder rates below that of European cities like London and Paris.

Maywood is predominately Black-American, like over 70% of the population is black, Latinos the next largest group and whites make up a fraction.

Democrats and Republicans since the 1980s have had total reign over Americans, over Black-Americans, and the same thing they have repeated over and over has failed. If this was Vietnam and you wanted to win the war you would can these clowns and put in a new General with a new plan. Rather than repeating the same thing over as if magically a different result is going to occur.

So, it's time an Independent gets placed in charge. Or at minimum a Democrat or Republican with fresh ideas.

Oh, and I'm familiar with the "program" culture of Democrats. I live in Milwaukee. If it weren't for Democrat's few government funded "work programs" very few blue collar blacks would probably have jobs. That's no way to run an economy for an entire racial group. White Republicans exported a lot of the new jobs (industrial parks) to predominately white suburbs and white towns. So, they (Republicans) are useless.

WARNING: Rap Video Set in and About LA Suburb of Compton Has Language and Content Not Appropriate for Work:

Eazy-E ft. BG Knocc Out & Dresta"Real Compton City G's" (Uncensored) (HD)

Someone like this young black man or even this black woman (I've seen a couple of her videos before but I'm new to this dude) needs to be put in office in some city full of blacks and all the career Dem's and Rep's kicked the hell onto the street. Government "programs" aren't need it but a complete revolution as to how Black-Americans think. Period.

Some of the financial terms he uses I'm not familiar with. Hell, some (not all) of the things he says is over my head. And imagine that there are millions of blacks that no less than me, so, probably understand him even less.

This is not a game. Or a [F word] fairy tale we live in. (The US economy may collapse in a few years, if the predictions of one of the guy's who predicted the last crash when everyone called him crazy, is correct, but that is another issue.)

ultmd · Nov 14, 2017

AlbqOwl said:
Again, in a previous post, I already did my mea culpa inadvertently using an American Renaissance link. I was going after the government data quoted in the link. I normally would never use American Renaissance as a source any more than I would use Media Matters or other dishonest leftwing sites as a source. American Renaissance is not my cup of tea and I do not support their emphasis in any way.

I read your mea culpa. But, as I noted in response to your previous post, the problem with that explanation is that there was no link to any DOJ data anywhere on that site. If you were going after the DOJ data, one would think that you would have simply gone directly to the DOJ website and looked it up for yourself. That's what I would do. So it seems more likely that you were looking for OPINIONS that re-affirmed your existing personal biases, and you found them on that "white identity" website. The "government data" you are referencing was, in fact, misrepresented in that Jared Taylor opinion piece you posted.

And again, it's ridiculous to equate what you call "left wing liberal" entities (i.e. SPLC and Media Matters)......to white supremacy groups on the right. The SPLC, which CORRECTLY reported the DOJ data in its column, doesn't promote racial superiority/inferiority. Jared Taylor and American Renaissance do. The two sides are hardly analogous, and the fact that you consider them to be analogous is quite telling.

You continue to hint and imply (without saying it explicitly) that race is a factor is criminality, AlbqOwl. That's EXACTLY what the American Renaissance and white nationalists/supremacists/idenity types argue. So it's hardly an accident or coincidence to me that you posted the opinion piece from the "trusted source" that you chose.

AlbqOwl · Nov 14, 2017

ultmd said:
I read your mea culpa. But, as I noted in response to your previous post, the problem with that explanation is that there was no link to any DOJ data anywhere on that site. If you were going after the DOJ data, one would think that you would have simply gone directly to the DOJ website and looked it up for yourself. That's what I would do. So it seems more likely that you were looking for OPINIONS that re-affirmed your existing personal biases, and you found them on that "white identity" website. The "government data" you are referencing was, in fact, misrepresented in that Jared Taylor opinion piece you posted.

And again, it's ridiculous to equate what you call "left wing liberal" entities (i.e. SPLC and Media Matters)......to white supremacy groups on the right. The SPLC, which CORRECTLY reported the DOJ data in its column, doesn't promote racial superiority/inferiority. Jared Taylor and American Renaissance do. The two sides are hardly analogous, and the fact that you consider them to be analogous is quite telling.

You continue to hint and imply (without saying it explicitly) that race is a factor is criminality, AlbqOwl. That's EXACTLY what the American Renaissance and white nationalists/supremacists/idenity types argue. So it's hardly an accident or coincidence to me that you posted the opinion piece from the "trusted source" that you chose.

I googled DOJ data and that site came up. I was careless in paying attention to what site it was. So sue me.

gfm7175 · Nov 14, 2017

Geoist said:
The term 'black-on-black' crime is more popular than ever, especially now that we have president complaining about it. It makes us think black criminals targeting blacks is some unique phenomenon occurring within their race. However, the alt-right and many conservatives ignore one obvious reality: criminals tend to commit crimes against those within their community. Statistics show that 57% of white crime is perpetrated against other whites. Compare that to 63% of black crime perpetrated against other blacks. Also, the rate of white-on-white violent crime is four times larger (12 per 1,000) than the rate of black-on-black crime (3.1 per 1,000). So why aren't we talking about 'white-on-white' violent crime? This seems like a major problem within the white race, no? Shouldn't Trump and the alt-right have declared the Vegas shooting an incident of white-on-white violent crime? Of course, they won't, and that is why the whole black-on-black crime thing is veiled racism.

So how is using detailed words to describe a perception of an event racism exactly?

ultmd · Nov 14, 2017

AlbqOwl said:
I googled DOJ data and that site came up. I was careless in paying attention to what site it was. So sue me.

I won't sue you. But it seems clear to me from your arguments in this thread that you believe race is a factor in criminality, and you keep ducking that part of this dialogue.

I'm just pointing out that you claimed that was a "trusted source", and then claimed that it had links to the DOJ data (which was untrue), and that your views are exactly the same as those expressed in that opinion piece by the "white identity" leader who penned it (Jared Taylor).

I'm just wondering why you don't own your personal convictions and feelings like Taylor owns his.

AlbqOwl · Nov 14, 2017

ultmd said:
I won't sue you. But it seems clear to me from your arguments in this thread that you believe race is a factor in criminality, and you keep ducking that part of this dialogue.

I'm just pointing out that you claimed that was a "trusted source", and then claimed that it had links to the DOJ data (which was untrue), and that your views are exactly the same as those expressed in that opinion piece by the "white identity" leader who penned it (Jared Taylor).

I'm just wondering why you don't own your personal convictions and feelings like Taylor owns his.

I do not believe I said anything about trusting that source or that it included DOJ data and I am quite sure that I have made no argument that race is a factor in criminality as I have consistently argued against race being a factor in criminality. Now please go pester somebody else with such nonsense and have a pleasant day.

Geoist · Nov 15, 2017

Fishking said:
Oh...I see. Then you're still wrong. The % of black on black crime is still greater than white on white crime, or significantly higher if you look at actual crime rates.

My point wasn't that the rates were exactly the same or that the black-on-black crime rate was lower than whites. My point was that the rates of each are around the same ballpark (12 per 1,000 vs. 16.5 per 1,000) because people target those who live close to them.

Now, where you may be getting confused is looking at net totals but then you're comparing a group that makes up 74% of the population vs 13%.

No, I am not looking at net totals.

Geoist · Nov 15, 2017

AlbqOwl said:
All I am arguing is that poverty in and of itself is not necessarily a recipe for a high crime society.

In order to have high crime you would need to have people who can be victimized. Rural areas have low populations and people are usually checked by the fact they are likely to be recognized. However, it does not stop crime from being a problem for most impoverished areas, urban or rural. For example, many poor rural areas face a major meth and opioid crisis.

Geoist · Nov 15, 2017

FastPace said:
This not entirely true, and has not been for decades.

When back in the 1990s I pulled into the Chicago suburb of Maywood, Illinois (at a White Castle there) there was as much gang activity there as there was in Chicago or Milwaukee. In fact Maywood back ten boasted a murder rate far higher than either cities, the murder rate back then was something like 80 per 100,000 people. Much higher than even the nationally known (in the Hip Hop world) LA suburb of Compton, California which then circa that time period had a murder rate of roughly 60 per 100,000.

Maywood is much closer to the city of Chicago and hosts a much larger population density than most suburbs. But yes, you got me on a technicality and I should have said "most suburbs."

Btw, interesting you mentioned it, as I just went through Maywood yesterday.

ultmd · Nov 15, 2017

AlbqOwl said:
I do not believe I said anything about trusting that source or that it included DOJ data and I am quite sure that I have made no argument that race is a factor in criminality as I have consistently argued against race being a factor in criminality. Now please go pester somebody else with such nonsense and have a pleasant day.

1. For your edification:

AlbqOwl said:
The link to the DOJ statistics was in the link I posted. .

You claimed there was a link to the DOJ data. There was no such link. The entire article was just an un-sourced opinion piece from a white supremacist who actually MISREPRESENTED the data from the DOJ. That's why I posted a true link to DOJ data for you.

2. You also dismissed (and refused to even read) the report on the SPLC site (which ACCURATELY discussed the DOJ data) on the grounds that it was an unreliable source, and then you posted instead a link to that white nationalist/identity leader's site (which MISREPRESENTED the DOJ data).

You have a pleasant day as well.

Geoist · Nov 16, 2017

gfm7175 said:
So how is using detailed words to describe a perception of an event racism exactly?

Because the emphasis is on the fact that they are black. It implies that there is something inherently wrong with black people and ignores the reality of urban crime and the history of institutional racism.

gfm7175 · Nov 16, 2017

gfm7175 said:
So how is using detailed words to describe a perception of an event racism exactly?

Geoist said:
Because the emphasis is on the fact that they are black. It implies that there is something inherently wrong with black people and ignores the reality of urban crime and the history of institutional racism.

1. Factually noting a person's skin color is not racism.

2. When specifically speaking about federal crime statistics, YES, there is something wrong. There is nothing wrong with black people themselves, but there seems to be something wrong with the methods and circumstances of how black children are being raised. Using 2012 numbers, when black people make up ~13% of the national population but they commit ~28+% of national crimes, something is obviously wrong. In contrast to this, white people make up ~78% of the national population, but only commit ~69% of national crimes... With Indians/Alaskan Natives, those numbers are a bit above 1% for each... With Asians/Pacific Islanders, those numbers are approx. 5% and 1% respectively. There is no denying that the race which statistically sticks out like a sore thumb when specifically talking about crime statistics is blacks. They happen to statistically commit a disproportionate number of crimes, which I think we need to ask ourselves why this is the case and work to reverse those statistics.

3. What is the "reality of urban crime"? Please elaborate...

4. How does the history of institutional racism relate to current crime statistics? (I'm not implying that it doesn't.. I'm just curious as to what your thought process behind bringing this up is)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
Racism | Define Racism at Dictionary.com

I added those links because I am under the impression from your posts that you are ignorant of the definition of racism. People call everything racism these days, which has unfortunately made the word almost meaningless. (It's become a "cry wolf" type of deal)

FastPace · Nov 16, 2017

Geoist said:
Maywood is much closer to the city of Chicago and hosts a much larger population density than most suburbs. But yes, you got me on a technicality and I should have said "most suburbs."

Btw, interesting you mentioned it, as I just went through Maywood yesterday.

Happy to see you're still alive.

J/k.

Geoist · Nov 16, 2017

gfm7175 said:
1. Factually noting a person's skin color is not racism.

Do you understand what 'implication' means?

2. When specifically speaking about federal crime statistics, YES, there is something wrong. There is nothing wrong with black people themselves, but there seems to be something wrong with the methods and circumstances of how black children are being raised. Using 2012 numbers, when black people make up ~13% of the national population but they commit ~28+% of national crimes, something is obviously wrong. In contrast to this, white people make up ~78% of the national population, but only commit ~69% of national crimes... With Indians/Alaskan Natives, those numbers are a bit above 1% for each... With Asians/Pacific Islanders, those numbers are approx. 5% and 1% respectively. There is no denying that the race which statistically sticks out like a sore thumb when specifically talking about crime statistics is blacks. They happen to statistically commit a disproportionate number of crimes, which I think we need to ask ourselves why this is the case and work to reverse those statistics.

Perhaps one needs to look at those statistics under the context of poverty levels and urban settings.

3. What is the "reality of urban crime"? Please elaborate...

The reality that urban areas are generally centers of higher crime rates, no matter what race/ethnic group makes up the majority of the population.

4. How does the history of institutional racism relate to current crime statistics? (I'm not implying that it doesn't.. I'm just curious as to what your thought process behind bringing this up is)

History doesn't exist in bubbles. What happens in the past affects the future. Do you agree? So if policies were implemented in order to drive racial wedges and create more disparity in the past then it can surely affect the future, even if such policies are eventually repealed.

I added those links because I am under the impression from your posts that you are ignorant of the definition of racism.

And what have I stated that led you to that conclusion?