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John Kelly on the Fallen Soldier Calls made by Trump. [W:33]

cpwill said:
Hey TT, if I were to do a quick search for your opinions during the campaign, what would I find you saying about Trump's decision to attack a Gold Star family?
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I can't say for sure. I joined DP just around this time last year. I know this... then and now, I continue to have no higher priority in this lifetime than the care and welfare of the four children I fathered. No right-minded parent wants to outlive any of their children.... regardless of whether or not they served in the military. My sincere condolences to all parents who experience the death of any of their children.
 
Parrish said:
He never denied what was said or the tone of what he said. He just made it about him. An empty barrel. I was stunned by his remarks. but I'm sure he's a
"very fine person."
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Looks like Kelly lied about that 2105 event, where he slandered her with that empty barrel remark.

It just gets worse.
Frederica Wilson says John Kelly lied from the White House podium
Frederica Wilson says John Kelly lied | Miami Herald

WASHINGTON "When White House Chief of Staff John Kelly condemned a Miami congresswoman on Thursday for sneering at President Donald Trump’s condolence call to a soldier’s widow, the retired general recalled when the two attended a somber ceremony in Miramar to dedicate a new FBI building named after two slain FBI agents.


Kelly criticized Democratic U.S. Rep. Frederica Wilson for claiming “she got the money” for the new building during the 2015 ceremony while he and others in the audience were focused on the heroism of agents Benjamin Grogan and Jerry Dove, killed during a 1986 shootout with bank robbers south of Miami.
Thursday night, Wilson said Kelly got the story flat-out wrong. In fact, she said Washington approved the money before she was even in Congress. The legislation she sponsored .

Read more here: Frederica Wilson says John Kelly lied | Miami Herald

Here's what Comey had to say of her at that dedication at the time: “Rep. Wilson truly did the impossible, and we are eternally grateful,” Comey said in his remarks.
 
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Paperview said:
Looks like Kelly lied about that 2105 event, where he slandered her with that empty barrel remark.

It just gets worse.
Frederica Wilson says John Kelly lied from the White House podium
Frederica Wilson says John Kelly lied | Miami Herald

WASHINGTON "When White House Chief of Staff John Kelly condemned a Miami congresswoman on Thursday for sneering at President Donald Trump’s condolence call to a soldier’s widow, the retired general recalled when the two attended a somber ceremony in Miramar to dedicate a new FBI building named after two slain FBI agents.


Kelly criticized Democratic U.S. Rep. Frederica Wilson for claiming “she got the money” for the new building during the 2015 ceremony while he and others in the audience were focused on the heroism of agents Benjamin Grogan and Jerry Dove, killed during a 1986 shootout with bank robbers south of Miami.
Thursday night, Wilson said Kelly got the story flat-out wrong. In fact, she said Washington approved the money before she was even in Congress. The legislation she sponsored .

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Kelly came across as a complete and utter bought-and-paid for ***** today.

If he could sink any lower, it'll have to do with Trump.

What a ****ing sucker.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
They don't have to...they are GRIEVING!

Stop treating them like a political football, which IMO is what the Congresswoman did.
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The Congresswoman actually knew the soldier who died personally. Have you ever considered that both she and the widow are emotional and maybe Trump sucks at consoling people? I totally agree that she should have kept it to herself and he behaved poorly. Can you agree that Trump behaved poorly? Can you agree that maybe Trump could have taken the high road and simply called her back or said something like, "I'm sorry if I was misunderstood in anyway. If there is anything I can do to help you and your family get through this please let me know'?

No, instead he goes on the attack and makes this into an argument during a funeral.

Can you admit that Trump and the congresswoman both handled this poorly?
 
Oh, my, Paperview.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
The Congresswoman actually knew the soldier who died personally. Have you ever considered that both she and the widow are emotional and maybe Trump sucks at consoling people? I totally agree that she should have kept it to herself and he behaved poorly. Can you agree that Trump behaved poorly? Can you agree that maybe Trump could have taken the high road and simply called her back or said something like, "I'm sorry if I was misunderstood in anyway. If there is anything I can do to help you and your family get through this please let me know'?

No, instead he goes on the attack and makes this into an argument during a funeral.

Can you admit that Trump and the congresswoman both handled this poorly?
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I can clearly see Trump handled Congresswoman Wilson's criticism poorly. My disdain for Trump, my lifetime of familiarity with Dade County, FL (home of La David Johnson's family), Wilson's apparent support by Sgt Johnson's family and her support from the vast majority of her constituency colors my ability to fault Congresswoman Wilson.

General Kelly, in my mind, sucked up a lot of personal pain in trying to implement damage control for a highly dubious Commander in Chief. Kelly's description of Congresswoman Wilson as an Empty Barrel came off as contrived, racist and hollow.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
I can't say for sure. I joined DP just around this time last year. I know this... then and now, I continue to have no higher priority in this lifetime than the care and welfare of the four children I fathered. No right-minded parent wants to outlive any of their children.... regardless of whether or not they served in the military. My sincere condolences to all parents who experience the death of any of their children.
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And so what was your opinion of Trump's decision to attack a Gold Star father?
 
Paperview said:
Looks like Kelly lied about that 2105 event, where he slandered her with that empty barrel remark.

It just gets worse.
Frederica Wilson says John Kelly lied from the White House podium
Frederica Wilson says John Kelly lied | Miami Herald

WASHINGTON "When White House Chief of Staff John Kelly condemned a Miami congresswoman on Thursday for sneering at President Donald Trump’s condolence call to a soldier’s widow, the retired general recalled when the two attended a somber ceremony in Miramar to dedicate a new FBI building named after two slain FBI agents.


Kelly criticized Democratic U.S. Rep. Frederica Wilson for claiming “she got the money” for the new building during the 2015 ceremony while he and others in the audience were focused on the heroism of agents Benjamin Grogan and Jerry Dove, killed during a 1986 shootout with bank robbers south of Miami.
Thursday night, Wilson said Kelly got the story flat-out wrong. In fact, she said Washington approved the money before she was even in Congress. The legislation she sponsored .

Read more here: Frederica Wilson says John Kelly lied | Miami Herald

Here's what Comey had to say of her at that dedication at the time: “Rep. Wilson truly did the impossible, and we are eternally grateful,” Comey said in his remarks.
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So if the money was appropriated before Wilson got to congress, what was Comey talking about? And just because the money was appropriated before she got to congress does not mean she didn't stand up and take credit for it. She is a politician you know.
 
calamity said:
lol...ironic. But, you probably fail to see the irony.
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I don't see the irony. Why don't you point it out to me.

Let's put it this way. Is the Gold Star wife and mother lying?
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I have no idea. I wasn't in on the phone call. But being a Gold Star spouse or parent doesn't turn you into Mother Theresa
 
Captain Adverse said:
Finally, the "proof" Mr. Trump promised:



I figured it was something like this when his Press Secretary said people were present when Mr. Trump made the call.

So, cue the nay-sayers who choose to believe a Congresswoman who admits shei didn't hear the whole call, but strangely just the part she got up in arms about. :coffeepap:
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I agree that the Congresswoman shouldn’t have been on the call. But since the conversation was publicized, I have a problem with the justification story Kelly used to back up Trump’s call.

Kelly was a career military officer when his son died in action. General Kelly, like all parents, would naturally grieve. But Kelly wasn’t an ordinary parent. He was a high ranking soldier who understood the wages of war. As Kelly grieved over his son’s death, his friend tried to console him in a way that a career military soldier understands oh so well.

General Kelly was was still participating in the same commitment that his son made when he “voluntarily joined the military”. Kelly’s friend reminded him of the very same risks and commitments that all soldiers acknowledges and accepts.

While Kelly’s friend didn’t take away the reality of Kelly’s son’s death and the pain was feeling, his words had a very personal meaning to Kelly that Kelly’s wife couldn’t fully internalize or take any comfort from in the same manner General Kelly would.

What Trump said to the wife of Sgt. Johnson might be okay or appropriate to tell a career soldier, but his wife, despite knowing her husband “signed up” in a dangerous line of work, or call it a patriotic calling. She can’t emotionally grasp the acknowledgment and acceptance risks and commitment of placing one’s life in such a selfless way...unless she, herself, had “signed up” at some point in her life. But even then, Trump’s call could have been way more sympathetic and empathetic. Trump needs to attend a Death Call Etiquette class.

I personally felt Like Kelly might be the only person in the White House who had some snap. But the Bowery Boy mentally that’s so prevalent in the White House has consumed Kelly like a sci-fi body snatcher. Sad.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
I can clearly see Trump handled Congresswoman Wilson's criticism poorly. My disdain for Trump, my lifetime of familiarity with Dade County, FL (home of La David Johnson's family), Wilson's apparent support by Sgt Johnson's family and her support from the vast majority of her constituency colors my ability to fault Congresswoman Wilson.

General Kelly, in my mind, sucked up a lot of personal pain in trying to implement damage control for a highly dubious Commander in Chief. Kelly's description of Congresswoman Wilson as an Empty Barrel came off as contrived, racist and hollow.
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How was it racist? Or do you guys just automatically throw that term out there whenever you see a black face?
 
Removable Mind said:
I agree that the Congresswoman shouldn’t have been on the call. But since the conversation was publicized, I have a problem with the justification story Kelly used to back up Trump’s call.

Kelly was a career military officer when his son died in action. General Kelly, like all parents, would naturally grieve. But Kelly wasn’t an ordinary parent. He was a high ranking soldier who understood the wages of war. As Kelly grieved over his son’s death, his friend tried to console him in a way that a career military soldier understands oh so well.

General Kelly was was still participating in the same commitment that his son made when he “voluntarily joined the military”. Kelly’s friend reminded him of the very same risks and commitments that all soldiers acknowledges and accepts.

While Kelly’s friend didn’t take away the reality of Kelly’s son’s death and the pain was feeling, his words had a very personal meaning to Kelly that Kelly’s wife couldn’t fully internalize or take any comfort from in the same manner General Kelly would.

What Trump said to the wife of Sgt. Johnson might be okay or appropriate to tell a career soldier, but his wife, despite knowing her husband “signed up” in a dangerous line of work, or call it a patriotic calling. She can’t emotionally grasp the acknowledgment and acceptance risks and commitment of placing one’s life in such a selfless way...unless she, herself, had “signed up” at some point in her life. But even then, Trump’s call could have been way more sympathetic and empathetic. Trump needs to attend a Death Call Etiquette class.

I personally felt Like Kelly might be the only person in the White House who had some snap. But the Bowery Boy mentally that’s so prevalent in the White House has consumed Kelly like a sci-fi body snatcher. Sad.
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Trump asked Kelly for advice on what to say and Kelly gave him advice that worked for him. It may not have been the best advice for what to say to a young widow.
 
cpwill said:
And so what was your opinion of Trump's decision to attack a Gold Star father?
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Come on cp, make this a bit more of a quid pro quo. Share some of your feelings in this thread. I don't approve of high profile politicians disparaging Gold Star Families. I felt empathy for the Tillman and Sheehan families... and others I have known hands on affected by war but never touched by publicity.
 
I have no doubt that Kelly told Trump (A) don't make the call at all, and when Trump insisted on making the call anyway (B) Kelly relayed what he had been told, soldier to soldier, general to general, by his dear friend when his own son perished.

I also have no doubt that Trump translated that into Trumpspeak, and "Your son died doing what he loved, surrounded by the best people on the planet, the buddies he loved" suddenly became "I'm sorry you lost your guy. He knew what he was signing up for, but I guess it still hurts."

I was also saddened Kelly was forced to speak publicly about the death of his son when Trump dragged in out by challenging a reporter to "ask Gen. Kelly if Trump called him". Ham-fisted, eloquence-impaired, turning the bully pulpit into just plain bullying, lying and denying, just like his latest tweet when he accused the congresswoman (who has been dear friends with the Johnson family for decades, and whom they turned to for support) of "SECRETLY listening" to a phone call when their was nothing secret about it; they were in a car, the call was on speakerphone, and everyone who heard what the congresswoman said knows it.

Of course, Kelley (and others) also were listening on Trump's end, and specifically did not deny what the congresswoman and Sgt. Johnson's family had reported. I get it that Trump was trying to do the right thing, but when it didn't go his way, he turned an offensive moment for a grieving family into a four-day media nightmare with his narcissism and lack of even a modicum of class.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
Come on cp, make this a bit more of a quid pro quo. Share some of your feelings in this thread. I don't approve of high profile politicians disparaging Gold Star Families. I felt empathy for the Tillman and Sheehan families... and others I have known hands on affected by war but never touched by publicity.
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I castigated him for it, as he deserved.

Just as you deserve, for your comments about Gen Kelly.

No, it doesn't ****ing matter if you disagree with them, or if you find them or their statements politically inconvenient. Nor does it matter which side they are inconvenient for.
 
Fletch said:
How was it racist? Or do you guys just automatically throw that term out there whenever you see a black face?
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General Kelly, born 1950 and 6 years older than me, grew up in a segregated section of Boston. I spent my earliest years, through 2nd grade, in a segregated section of NW Miami, then moved to the Gainesville Florida area.

If "you guys" includes - Mixed race 61 year old Hippie, UF graduate, R.E. Broker, born and raised in Florida, with extensive parenting, sailing and vagabond experience... then NO, I don't just throw that term out there whenever I see a black face. Before I transferred to UF, i picked up an AA at Miami-Dade. I know a lot of people, including relatives, who live in South Florida. I feel connected to the Miami area. Look up some pictures of Miami Gardens, Overtown, Liberty City and Carol City. Or don't bother and stick with your Empty Barrel nature! I remember your sense of humor in a Sessions The Weasel Thread.
 
cpwill said:
I castigated him for it, as he deserved.

Just as you deserve, for your comments about Gen Kelly.

No, it doesn't ****ing matter if you disagree with them, or if you find them or their statements politically inconvenient. Nor does it matter which side they are inconvenient for.
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Let me guess. You served at sometime... which explains your self-righteousness. You sure have not explained yourself very well in this thread. Peace to you and yours!
 
Fearandloathing said:
Look, this administration is known for one thing above all else, and that's lying. I don't give a rats as what Moron's minions are told to say, these are the same stooges we see "explaining" his utterances, and lying themselves; I still chuckle at "alternate facts".

And, it isn't like Moron has shown any kind of character or grit worthy of the benefit of the doubt. The man is a prick of a boss, a degenerate with women, racist, too stupid to know when he's shat in his own shoes.

And did I mention lying?

So, who to believe in these petty little dramas is easy: ABT, anyone but Trump.

Dumb **** never got the moral of the story about chicken little
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What I would like to know is this --

Trump, through August, has lied (fact-checked) over 1,000 times. He averages 4 to 5 lies per day, and these are verifiable. Why should we believe him, and his water carrier, over a grieving widow and family, and the Congresswoman?

I mean - come on. He lied about what he said, and then it was proven that he lied, because Kelly admitted that yes, he did tell him to say that.

So - you have a habitual liar on one hand, and a grieving family on the other.

Yet people are believing the habitual liar. This kind of **** makes my head hurt.
 
DiAnna said:
I have no doubt that Kelly told Trump (A) don't make the call at all, and when Trump insisted on making the call anyway (B) Kelly relayed what he had been told, soldier to soldier, general to general, by his dear friend when his own son perished.

I also have no doubt that Trump translated that into Trumpspeak, and "Your son died doing what he loved, surrounded by the best people on the planet, the buddies he loved" suddenly became "I'm sorry you lost your guy. He knew what he was signing up for, but I guess it still hurts."

I was also saddened Kelly was forced to speak publicly about the death of his son when Trump dragged in out by challenging a reporter to "ask Gen. Kelly if Trump called him". Ham-fisted, eloquence-impaired, turning the bully pulpit into just plain bullying, lying and denying, just like his latest tweet when he accused the congresswoman (who has been dear friends with the Johnson family for decades, and whom they turned to for support) of "SECRETLY listening" to a phone call when their was nothing secret about it; they were in a car, the call was on speakerphone, and everyone who heard what the congresswoman said knows it.

Of course, Kelley (and others) also were listening on Trump's end, and specifically did not deny what the congresswoman and Sgt. Johnson's family had reported. I get it that Trump was trying to do the right thing, but when it didn't go his way, he turned an offensive moment for a grieving family into a four-day media nightmare with his narcissism and lack of even a modicum of class.
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Always the voice of reason.

And yes. All he had to do was apologize. "Geez, I'm sorry, ma'am. I'm new at this. I screwed up, and I apologize so very much for your loss, as well as the way that it was handled."

That was all he had to do. But malignant narcissists never apologize, because they truly feel that they have done nothing wrong.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
As an Anti-Trumper, I see it a lot differently than you. Shame on Trump, not for what he allegedly said to the grieving family, but for his predictable clumsy handling of criticism by the Congresswoman. She represents a decidedly Anti-Trump constituency. The Press does what it does. General Kelly took a hapless job. Hapless duty drove his rhetorical spin. Some of noticed and rolled our eyes after Kelly criticized the Congresswoman but not the Jackass.
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The fact that you have a bigger problem with Trumps clumsy handling of criticism then you do with the congresswoman and the press using dishonesty and the death of a service member to attack the president says a lot about you. And it’s rather disgusting. It also shows just how much your hate for Trump has clouded your ability to think clearly.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Kelly came across as a complete and utter bought-and-paid for ***** today.

If he could sink any lower, it'll have to do with Trump.

What a ****ing sucker.
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I would be willing to bet that Kelly has more honor and integrity in his big toe then you have in your entire being. And the fact that you would attack someone who spent their entire life serving this country, in such a pathetic manner more or less proves it. You should really feel ashamed of yourself.
 
JasperL said:
Just FWIW, this isn't remotely "proof" of anything. At best Kelly is in the identical position as the Congresswoman - a bystander listening in. Other than that, carry on.

FWIW, my own view is it appears Kelly and the Congresswoman are both telling the truth.
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I think it's proof that he didn't just blurt out "He knew what he was signing up for" in a nonchalant manner unsympathetic manner that it has been portrayed. But I agree that it appears they are both telling the truth.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
No shame on me. Shame on you! I wrote what I believe and what I feel. No right-minded parent, that includes me, wants to outlive any of their children. God Bless General Kelly's family. His children rank neither higher nor lower than anyone else's children.
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Just stop while you have two shreds of decency left..................
 
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