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Say "Merry Christmas" or else!

If a school is in a largely muslim area can they celebrate those traditions front and center?

They can celebrate whatever the community, teachers, students, parents want to celebrate. But since the National Christmas Holiday has zero to do with Ramadan or anything other than Christmas, in my opinion it is appropriate to recognize Christmas in the Christmas season. We would think it silly to celebrate something other than presidents on Presidents Day or anybody but Martin Luther King on his birthday or to feature Bastille Day or the Emancipation Proclamation on the 4th of July.
 
The 1st Amendment reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (emphasis added)

The first part prohibits the state from using its operations (like state-run schools) as a means of promulgating religion. And yes, that generally includes singing explicitly religious songs in official school events.

Further, we have carved out ways for individuals to exercise their religious beliefs within these institutions. E.g. students are allowed to pray in school, including in the company of faculty and staff, as long as they do so in private. They cannot do so in connection with official events, such as leading a prayer during graduation or before a sporting event.

What does the second part mean? It means the state cannot stop you from expressing your religious views -- in the privacy of your own home, or in the public square. It does not license the state to compel students to participate in or be exposed to religious expressions.

Along those lines, there is not, nor should there be, an exception because "students want it." (Santa Fe Independent School District v. Jane Doe) It still results in the idea that the state is sanctioning a belief system, and that students are compelled to participate. And if the students want to sing Christian songs, nothing whatsoever stops them from doing it on their own time.


I did not say that the 1st Amendment took effect before it was ratified. My point is that there is nothing in either the history or theology of Christianity which entails tolerance for other religions.

It is also false to say that the first colonies were formed out of a desire for religious freedom. The Virginia colonies were purely a for-profit venture; the Puritans had no interest in religious liberties, and claims that they fed persecution in England are vastly overstated. It was only the most extreme Puritans, who wanted to leave the Church of England, who were persecuted in any way; most Puritans were not, and considered themselves as Anglican reformers. Rather, the Puritans came to the US because they wanted to create their own utopian Christian society at a low point in their political influence. The vast majority of Puritans stayed in England, and slowly gained in political power. And obviously, the Puritans were incredibly intolerant of any other religious groups, until conditions forced them to change.

I.e. the motivations to colonize the New World had nothing to do with the ideas which resulted in the passage of the 1st Amendment.


The idea that "political correctness is the worst!" is as ignorant as it is repugnant. What has it done -- made some privileged people feel bad about saying certain words? Awwww. How awful for you all!!! Meanwhile, racial intolerance has led to all sorts of violence, ranging from assaults to lynchings to discrimination to segregation and more. We see similar outcomes due to the intolerance of LGBT individuals. Sectarian and religious intolerance has been intertwined with or causative in centuries of persecution, oppression, torture (think Inquisition) and warfare (ranging from the Wars of the Reformation era, to Iraq today); and of course, anti-semitism, which resulted in the slaughter of millions of Jews during WWII.

When President Jerry Brown Orders the Suede-Denim Police compel you to jog for the Master Race, on pain of putting your uncool niece into an organic gas chamber, let me know.**


** 10 points to anyone who gets the reference

You can cite case law until you are blue in the face and throw in every straw man and red herring in the book into the discussion, and it will not change my long considered and well thought out opinion on this. But do have a pleasant evening.
 
Like I said, I think we're missing something, such as there weren't actually rules or written guidance that banned one, but allowed other religious displays. Too many federal employees not to run across a Christian employee who DID care, copied the memo, and sent it to Bill O'Reilly or something.

The written guidance encouraged "seasonal" decor as I recall. The more explicit displays were private additions on the margins and no one minded.
 
1.) you mean YOUR fed HR said so at YOUR place
2.) You said something along the lines as that Christmas decorations were ruled out in favor of holiday decorations, if there was a santa your statment was completely inaccurate
3.) according to YOU thats what happened at YOUR facility.

As you wish. I'm not going to debate your unique personal view.
 
They can celebrate whatever the community, teachers, students, parents want to celebrate. But since the National Christmas Holiday has zero to do with Ramadan or anything other than Christmas, in my opinion it is appropriate to recognize Christmas in the Christmas season. We would think it silly to celebrate something other than presidents on Presidents Day or anybody but Martin Luther King on his birthday or to feature Bastille Day or the Emancipation Proclamation on the 4th of July.
It is equally appropriate to celebrate many other religious traditions that occur in December....maybe not celebrate Christmas at all
 
They can celebrate whatever the community, teachers, students, parents want to celebrate. But since the National Christmas Holiday has zero to do with Ramadan or anything other than Christmas, in my opinion it is appropriate to recognize Christmas in the Christmas season. We would think it silly to celebrate something other than presidents on Presidents Day or anybody but Martin Luther King on his birthday or to feature Bastille Day or the Emancipation Proclamation on the 4th of July.

It was several years ago I went to a Holiday program at our kids public school. It was the lamest thing I had ever seen. A bunch of songs and other things from every single religion in the world - and not a word or song or decoration about Christmas. There was not one Christmas song you would even recognize, not even Frosty The Snowman or Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer. Normally you want to be a proud parent at these events but the whole thing was very boring and actually quite disgusting and unbelievable.
 
People are aware that Christmas is a stolen holiday and that Christ was not born in December.....right?
 
The customers are not obligated to be their captive audience. People paid for a product that does not include political expression. If fans don't like it they can not be forced to watch it. Owners are within their rights to expect the players to give the fans what they are asking for.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

My point is that so long as they are not violating the rights of others, everybody should be allowed to be who and what they are without reprisal or interference from anybody. And yes, if they conduct their business affairs in a way that is displeasing or offensive, we have every right to express our disapproval and/or take our business elsewhere. That concept is 100% opposite of political correctness. Which is the point I was making.
 
People are aware that Christmas is a stolen holiday and that Christ was not born in December.....right?

Stolen from pagans nonetheless...
 
He never said he was going to make stores say Merry Christmas but he will create an environment where they will feel more comfortable in saying it and not being attacked by the left for saying it. Now we will be able to say it freely again and screw everyone who is offended by it. Only a real scrooge would be offended by someone telling them, "Merry Christmas".

And, only a real uptight person would be offended by someone saying happy holidays.
 
As you wish. I'm not going to debate your unique personal view.

Theres nothign to debate. i didnt give you any personal views I gave you:


one fact
Santa = Christmas decorations so your description was factually wrong

and I clarified your "story"

according to YOU, YOUR HR at YOUR facility did what you claim, its not all FED HRs
 
It is equally appropriate to celebrate many other religious traditions that occur in December....maybe not celebrate Christmas at all

Your choice. But Christmas is an official national holiday because of its historical place in the culture of our nation from its very beginnings. And to regulate how it will observed or forbid parts of it being observed is just dumb and often hateful.
 
It must be tough being part of the overwhelming majority

I was talking about the punch being thrown, if you lack empathy for the victim that is a different matter that does not interest me because I am aligned along right/wrong.
 
It was several years ago I went to a Holiday program at our kids public school. It was the lamest thing I had ever seen. A bunch of songs and other things from every single religion in the world - and not a word or song or decoration about Christmas. There was not one Christmas song you would even recognize, not even Frosty The Snowman or Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer. Normally you want to be a proud parent at these events but the whole thing was very boring and actually quite disgusting and unbelievable.

I can only shake my head in sympathy and think how sad it is that such a wonderful, lovely, fun, and generous tradition as Christmas--a holiday Christians and non-Christians alike mostly loved and enjoyed up for most of two centuries--has been largely destroyed by political correctness. And people wonder why i am engaged in a one-woman war against political correctness. it might be the single most destructive force in our society today.
 
I was talking about the punch being thrown, if you lack empathy for the victim that is a different matter that does not interest me because I am aligned along right/wrong.

If only we could find some white Christians to serve in politics......
 
Your choice. But Christmas is an official national holiday because of its historical place in the culture of our nation from its very beginnings. And to regulate how it will observed or forbid parts of it being observed is just dumb and often hateful.

In my kids school it is holiday break....Christmas is no more important than any other religious holiday
 
Christmas and all it's trappings has for some time now been a celebration of excess and Mammon.
 
I can only shake my head in sympathy and think how sad it is that such a wonderful, lovely, fun, and generous tradition as Christmas--a holiday Christians and non-Christians alike mostly loved and enjoyed up for most of two centuries--has been largely destroyed by political correctness. And people wonder why i am engaged in a one-woman war against political correctness. it might be the single most destructive force in our society today.

Christmas, comedy, increasingly food....ruined in the name of a bad idea.

I would mention the NFL but they had it coming.
 
Theres nothign to debate. i didnt give you any personal views I gave you:


one fact
Santa = Christmas decorations so your description was factually wrong

and I clarified your "story"

according to YOU, YOUR HR at YOUR facility did what you claim, its not all FED HRs

Sorry, but no. Santa has no religious Christmas content.
 
So, what are you saying? Are you saying that stores should be directed to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas?
I am saying I don't understand why "happy holidays" is so offensive and outrageous while banning entire groups of people from travel based solely on their religion is not.
 
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