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Say "Merry Christmas" or else!

Cephus said:
One holiday is Christmas. There is more than one holiday. Happy Holidays is inclusive of all of them so you don't have to rattle off a list of holidays. I fail to see why this is a big deal.
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I don't rattle. For Christmas I say Merry Christmas. After Christmas and for New Years, I say Happy New Years. I don't ever remember someone saying Happy New Years before Christmas is over. That's not saying someone hasn't, but if so, I don't remember it. From what I observed in my old age is when Christmas nears, it's Merry Christmas. After Christmas, it becomes Happy New Years. No rattle at all.

If you like Happy Holidays, fine. But if you said that to me prior to Christmas I would respond Merry Christmas as I would take it that was your political correct way of stating the obvious Merry Christmas. You could say Happy Holidays after Christmas, I would respond with Happy New Years. But I never heard anyone use Happy Holidays after Christmas. Seems Happy holidays is just away of getting around saying Merry Christmas by some.
 
Mr Person said:
Nobody cares, but you still brought it up in support of the false victim routine in claiming that there's some kind of "PC" or liberal War on Christmas:



Either you cared enough about it to be disgusted, remember it, and then post it in response to a thread about how Trump is pretending that there's a war on Christmas....

...OR you rolled your eyes because it really did not matter, did not affect you in any way, and in no way supports your claim that there is some big anti-Christmas movement perpetrated by a "PC crowd".




Which is it?






Right-wing media starts this stupid bull**** up every year. (Anyone remember "Santa Claus is certifiably white" from Ms. Kelly?)

Nobody is stopping you from celebrating Christmas. I've never overheard anyone getting offended because someone wished them Merry Christmas or anything like that. Maybe someone at your job really did ask for a Christmas tree to be called a Holiday tree.

That'd be silly if true, but all it would be is silly. It doesn't demonstrate any sort of war on Christmas. So it was, at best, completely irrelevant to the thread.
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MaggieD said:
I posted it because I felt like it.
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That doesn't change the fact that it was stupid anti-left BS.

:shrug:

MaggieD said:
And I certainly don’t need you deciding whether my post is relevant or not.
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Meanwhile I certainly don't need your permission to criticize your posts when you post bull****.









Did you have anything further to say on the subject or are you just jabbing at me to get a reaction?
 
Thorgasm said:
How do they feel about gay people?
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Given that in Canada they don’t like Harry Potter (witchcraft) and did not want donations of toys associated with HP, I expect openly gay people would give them heart attacks
 
Mr Person said:
That doesn't change the fact that it was stupid anti-left BS.

:shrug:



Meanwhile I certainly don't need your permission to criticize your posts when you post bull****.









Did you have anything further to say on the subject or are you just jabbing at me to get a reaction?
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It wasn't really stupid BS of any kind.
 
Jack Hays said:
It wasn't really stupid BS of any kind.
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Mentioning a personal anecdote in support of the notion that there is some "PC crowd" attacking Christmas is stupid BS. Right wing media dredges it out every year around Christmas, and its viewers flock to internet forums to mentally copy/paste the swill here.

And funny enough, none of the people mentally copy/pasting it to forums can ever really manage to defend it. So we get an anecdote about one busybody who complained to a private employer.

Some war....
 
Jack Hays said:
I am neither a Christian nor a Republican, but I think you're quite wrong. White evangelical Christians feel themselves under siege because they are the only group whom it is permissible in polite society to mock.

I read an article today at Real Clear Politics about a meeting of middle America Democrats to discuss why they're getting wiped out between the coasts. Their conclusion? Too easy condescension and assumption of middle American racism among their fellow Dems on the coasts.
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But this is nothing new that evangelicals are mocked. It has been that way from the beginning over 2000 years ago.
 
Mr Person said:
Mentioning a personal anecdote in support of the notion that there is some "PC crowd" attacking Christmas is stupid BS. Right wing media dredges it out every year around Christmas, and its viewers flock to internet forums to mentally copy/paste the swill here.

And funny enough, none of the people mentally copy/pasting it to forums can ever really manage to defend it. So we get an anecdote about one busybody who complained to a private employer.

Some war....
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Jack Hays said:
Not really. The federal prohibition on Christmas parties and Christmas trees is PC.
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The framers would be rather surprised to hear that the establishment clause is PC. As I said, the rules are different when you're talking about government actions re: religion.
 
Mr Person said:
That doesn't change the fact that it was stupid anti-left BS.

:shrug:

Meanwhile I certainly don't need your permission to criticize your posts when you post bull****.

Did you have anything further to say on the subject or are you just jabbing at me to get a reaction?
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:lamo
 
Mr Person said:
The framers would be rather surprised to hear that the establishment clause is PC. As I said, the rules are different when you're talking about government actions re: religion.
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The framers would be amused that a holiday celebration would be considered "establishment," especially since there's no prohibition on Muslim, Jewish or Kwanza activities.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Given that in Canada they don’t like Harry Potter (witchcraft) and did not want donations of toys associated with HP, I expect openly gay people would give them heart attacks
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My wife used to work for them- the Sally Ann. They had a contract with Corrections for a half-way house in downtown Vancouver and took in some really bad dudes and she was a caseworker.
All I'm gonna say is that for the last couple weeks she was there she wore a wire, her union (BCGEU) turned their backs on her, the Salvation Army paid her off to leave and sign a nondisclosure agreement. Everyone involved, Corrections, the BCGEU, the Salvation Army, disgraced themselves.
 
Jack Hays said:
I am neither a Christian nor a Republican, but I think you're quite wrong. White evangelical Christians feel themselves under siege because they are the only group whom it is permissible in polite society to mock.

I read an article today at Real Clear Politics about a meeting of middle America Democrats to discuss why they're getting wiped out between the coasts. Their conclusion? Too easy condescension and assumption of middle American racism among their fellow Dems on the coasts.
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They are the only group who feels they can ban entire groups of people from traveling to this country solely based on their religious affiliation, but then get deeply offended and outraged if someone wishes them happy holidays.
What's not to mock?
 
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Jack Hays said:
The framers would be amused that a holiday celebration would be considered "establishment," especially since there's no prohibition on Muslim, Jewish or Kwanza activities.
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Disputes have tended to arise when non-Christian religious groups ask if they can put up a religious display near the Christian displays, and some government official is dense enough to refuse.

But anyway, you are kind of missing the point here. It's not a "holiday celebration", it's a celebration of one specific religion's holiday. That's why federal offices are wary of putting up just the one Christian display, even if this is a 70%+ Christian country.
 
Mr Person said:
Disputes have tended to arise when non-Christian religious groups ask if they can put up a religious display near the Christian displays, and some government official is dense enough to refuse.

But anyway, you are kind of missing the point here. It's not a "holiday celebration", it's a celebration of one specific religion's holiday. That's why federal offices are wary of putting up just the one Christian display, even if this is a 70%+ Christian country.
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But there's no rule against the others.
 
ataraxia said:
They are the only group who feels they can ban entire groups of people from entering the country solely based on their religious affiliation, but then get deeply offended and outraged if someone wishes them happy holidays.
What's not to mock?
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Thank you for illustrating my point with your bigotry. What makes you think Christians are the core supporters of immigration restrictions?
 
Jack Hays said:
But there's no rule against the others.
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First, I did say this:

Mr Person said:
Disputes have tended to arise when non-Christian religious groups ask if they can put up a religious display near the Christian displays, and some government official is dense enough to refuse.
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But I also said this:

Mr Person said:
But anyway, you are kind of missing the point here. It's not a "holiday celebration", it's a celebration of one specific religion's holiday. That's why federal offices are wary of putting up just the one Christian display, even if this is a 70%+ Christian country.
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There doesn't have to necessarily be a rule against the others.

I don't personally care if they put Christmas trees in front of the courthouse, but given the way the clause has been interpreted it makes sense that federal offices would be wary of using federal dollars to put up displays for one and only one religion.

It's a different story if someone wants to put their own thing on their desk or whatever.
 
americanwoman said:
Trump: 'We're saying merry Christmas again' | TheHill





Beautiful Christmas season that people don't talk about? What reality is this guy in, I've been seeing and hearing about Christmas for the past couple weeks now and it's not even Halloween yet!

I do wonder how he plans to roll out to have department stores and whatnot say Merry Christmas. I mean, he can't actually think he's going to make people say Merry Christmas, right? :lol:
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Christians love to feel persecuted. Bill Maher has an excellent way of encapsulating the "attack on Christianity".

 
<alt>doxygen said:
In stores the Christmas stuff is mixed with Halloween stuff.

Y'all have a Scary Christmas!

Personally, I don't care what people say. I don't care if they say nothing. Christmas is an appropriated Pagan holiday anyway. There really are more important things to get stressed over.
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Dude, c'mon. Get into the spirit of the conservative/Christian victim culture! You're no fun!

'This the season to make Christmas a folly, fah lah lah lah lah, lah lah lah lahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
 
lurchadams said:
Christians love to feel persecuted. Bill Maher has an excellent way of encapsulating the "attack on Christianity".
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Honestly, it's not Christians. It's the right.

The persecution thing started 10ish years ago, just before Obama looked like he'd be the winner. I'm not saying it necessarily had to do with Obama.



I started dancing on internet debate forms around near 2000ish, maybe year or two later. At first, the stupidity was actually on the conspiratorial left, claiming that Bush knew there weren't WMDs but got us into Iraq for oil, yadda yadda yadda. But several years in, and all of a sudden I notice that across the right, there was a growing mythology of victimization: that the left isn't simply wrong (according to the right), but actually wants to harm people on the right in some way.

It grew and grew and grew. These days, we're at the point where many on the right seem to think that the best policy or politician is one that pissess off the left. Who cares what's good for the country:



But the false victim routine remains. The fake "War on Christmas" is one example.

Others? For 8 years, Obama's statement about how "they cling to their guns and bibles" was supposed to justify every last unfair attack on anyone on the let. In the 2016 election, "deplorables" somehow made every awful thing Trump said/did, OK.

But this isn't about Christians. Most of my friends are Christians, naturally. The ones falling somewhere on the left sure don't act like they're being victimized.
 
AlbqOwl said:
The President's point was that the government under his tenure would not be restricted in any way in the celebration of a great national holiday. He would be saying Merry Christmas and nobody under his authority would be restricted from doing the same. And in so stating this, he is encouraging everybody else to feel free to do the same. In my opinion, this a GOOD thing. Anybody who doesn't want to say "Merry Christmas" is certainly not required to do so and employers can enforce whatever rules they deem appropriate as they have always done. But nobody need fear the government/Justice Dept. on the issue of whether it is appropriate to say "Merry Christmas" or observe the traditions of it as they see fit.

To me it is a breath of fresh air and I applaud it 100%. I hate political correctness and everything it stand for.

I have no problem with the display of the Christian cross or the Star of David or whatever symbol people want to use during the season. I don't care what rules any business owner enforces during the season and I am not offended by a "Happy Holidays." But I personally am uplifted and enjoy hearing a joyful, heartfelt "Merry Christmas" and I probably will continue to shop in those stores that don't inhibit the meaning of the Season. I already do as much of my shopping as possible at stores that allow the Salvation Army kettle and bell ringers during Christmas and choose not to frequent those that do not. It is my choice. And I think everybody else should do whatever is their choice.

I am just happy to have a Presidential example that encourages a choice.
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Well, then I hope we get one in 2020.
 
Jack Hays said:
That's exactly what I've been talking about. Go back to my first post. Activities within offices.
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"Activities within offices" is too broad. You need to specify whose office. If it's a government office, things are different and they're different for a reason.

I'm not necessarily defending all of the law on this, but I do think it's generally a good idea for government to avoid giving off the appearance of favoring one religion. Private individuals can do whatever they please, imo. (Ok, within limits. If someone's Christmas display is blasting 2000 lumens into your bedroom at night, that's a property rights issue).

But I also think that as between busybodies annoyed at Christmas trees and people lying about a "war on Christmas", the latter are more in the wrong than the former.





Bear in mind, I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, but sure enough I scroll down and I see someone coughing up a personal anecdote about a busybody in response to an OP that criticized Trump and/or the right generally for the "war on Christmas" lie. I didn't even see your first post, so I wasn't really talking about what you were until you responded to me.
 
Jack Hays said:
Thank you for illustrating my point with your bigotry. What makes you think Christians are the core supporters of immigration restrictions?
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Evangelical Christians were one of the core groups that voted for Trump. There was no outrage when he was proposing banning people's travel based on their religion, clearly an unconstitutional proposal, if not in the spirit of Christian love for thy neighbor. They turned out in droves to vote for him to do it. But wish them happy holidays, and boy you better watch out for all the seething outrage and Christian love!
 
Mr Person said:
"Activities within offices" is too broad. You need to specify whose office. If it's a government office, things are different and they're different for a reason.

I'm not necessarily defending all of the law on this, but I do think it's generally a good idea for government to avoid giving off the appearance of favoring one religion. Private individuals can do whatever they please, imo. (Ok, within limits. If someone's Christmas display is blasting 2000 lumens into your bedroom at night, that's a property rights issue).

But I also think that as between busybodies annoyed at Christmas trees and people lying about a "war on Christmas", the latter are more in the wrong than the former.





Bear in mind, I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, but sure enough I scroll down and I see someone coughing up a personal anecdote about a busybody in response to an OP that criticized Trump and/or the right generally for the "war on Christmas" lie. I didn't even see your first post, so I wasn't really talking about what you were until you responded to me.
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In federal offices, Christmas is specifically ruled out in favor of Holiday decorations and gatherings. There are no similar prohibitions on specifically Muslim, Jewish, Kwanza or other observances, celebrations or decorations.
 
ataraxia said:
Evangelical Christians were one of the core groups that voted for Trump. There was no outrage when he was proposing banning people's travel based on their religion, clearly an unconstitutional proposal, if not in the spirit of Christian love for thy neighbor. They turned out in droves to vote for him to do it. But wish them happy holidays, and boy you better watch out for all the seething outrage and Christian love!
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I doubt whether a majority of DJT's supporters are churchgoers, but that's beside the point. Your bigotry is the point. You are showing it now.
 
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