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Let the free market and the states solve America's Healthcare issues.

vegas giants said:
Nothing is more expensive than dying. If we can not have a government that tries to help keep us alive then what good is it at all?
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You are joking, right?
 
joG said:
You mean paying yoir own way?
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Yes. Most americans find that unacceptable. Label it any way you like....but most americans find our current system completely broken
 
vegas giants said:
Nothing is more expensive than dying. If we can not have a government that tries to help keep us alive then what good is it at all?
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Like I like I said, dying it's good for the economy.

Sent from my Z833 using Tapatalk
 
joG said:
You are joking, right?
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What is the point of government? Why do we have national defense if the government does not even try to keep us alive?
 
Ray9 said:
The government will destroy healthcare in the United States just like it has destroyed nearly everything it has got its hands on because It goes after the effect not the cause of bad health. We need to lead the way here not follow failed European models. Here is wisdom: We need to involve the free market and the trillions that are lining the pockets of poison manufacturers like tobacco and alcohol.

The technology exists to require special credit cards to purchase tobacco and alcohol that are connected directly to personal health savings accounts of users. First double the cost of a six-pack of beer and a pack of cigarettes. When users purchase the products the extra money goes into an account in their name that collects interest.

This will have two effects. It will pay for the medical expenses of the sickest among us and it will discourage the use of these poisons. In a generation it will relieve pressure on the medical infrastructure that is today at a critical stage.

No one is being ordered not to do anything. They can drink and smoke to their heart's content. They pay through the nose to save their hearts and livers. The federal government has no involvement. The states control and enforce the levies.

The people pay at the pump. This is just a start. There are many creative ways to pay for citizen healthcare that do not require a corrupt central authority.
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What I understand that is the direction of the federal plan is to set the standards for the states, but let the states handle meeting them. The fed's will allocate bloc grants to fund them.
 
"Let the free market and the states solve America's Healthcare issues."

So repeal and no replace.
 
vegas giants said:
What is the point of government? Why do we have national defense if the government does not even try to keep us alive?
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Not just dying, access for all to cheaper health care means fewer sick days and a more productive workforce. Fewer bankrupt people also benefits the economy.
 
Aristaeus said:
Not just dying, access for all to cheaper health care means fewer sick days and a more productive workforce. Fewer bankrupt people also benefits the economy.
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In many ways this is the sole point of a government.
 
Ray9 said:
The government will destroy healthcare in the United States just like it has destroyed nearly everything it has got its hands on because It goes after the effect not the cause of bad health. We need to lead the way here not follow failed European models. Here is wisdom: We need to involve the free market and the trillions that are lining the pockets of poison manufacturers like tobacco and alcohol.

The technology exists to require special credit cards to purchase tobacco and alcohol that are connected directly to personal health savings accounts of users. First double the cost of a six-pack of beer and a pack of cigarettes. When users purchase the products the extra money goes into an account in their name that collects interest.

This will have two effects. It will pay for the medical expenses of the sickest among us and it will discourage the use of these poisons. In a generation it will relieve pressure on the medical infrastructure that is today at a critical stage.

No one is being ordered not to do anything. They can drink and smoke to their heart's content. They pay through the nose to save their hearts and livers. The federal government has no involvement. The states control and enforce the levies.

The people pay at the pump. This is just a start. There are many creative ways to pay for citizen healthcare that do not require a corrupt central authority.
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What you described is just like the European way.

But target only Tabacco and alcohol does not do much difference. The biggest threat to health are sugar, sedentary life, processed food, unbalanced meals, farm pesticides, and depression/anxiety (more than often related to food and life style like too much work and no much of social life).
 
Aristaeus said:
Every single payer system in the developed world works better than the US private system.
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Since there's no such thing at "the US Private System" that would be correct.
 
CletusWilbury said:
"Let the free market and the states solve America's Healthcare issues."

So repeal and no replace.
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works for me. except the repeal also has to include the Hill-Burton Act and Medicaid, as well as the laws permitting the government to CON the citizens.
 
Ray9 said:
The government will destroy healthcare in the United States just like it has destroyed nearly everything it has got its hands on because It goes after the effect not the cause of bad health. We need to lead the way here not follow failed European models. Here is wisdom: We need to involve the free market and the trillions that are lining the pockets of poison manufacturers like tobacco and alcohol.

The technology exists to require special credit cards to purchase tobacco and alcohol that are connected directly to personal health savings accounts of users. First double the cost of a six-pack of beer and a pack of cigarettes. When users purchase the products the extra money goes into an account in their name that collects interest.

This will have two effects. It will pay for the medical expenses of the sickest among us and it will discourage the use of these poisons. In a generation it will relieve pressure on the medical infrastructure that is today at a critical stage.

No one is being ordered not to do anything. They can drink and smoke to their heart's content. They pay through the nose to save their hearts and livers. The federal government has no involvement. The states control and enforce the levies.

The people pay at the pump. This is just a start. There are many creative ways to pay for citizen healthcare that do not require a corrupt central authority.
Click to expand...

I think it's a great idea. Anti tax-nuts and most libertarians will claim such a program is a "tax on behavior".
 
Ray9 said:
The government will destroy healthcare in the United States just like it has destroyed nearly everything it has got its hands on because It goes after the effect not the cause of bad health. We need to lead the way here not follow failed European models. Here is wisdom: We need to involve the free market and the trillions that are lining the pockets of poison manufacturers like tobacco and alcohol.

The technology exists to require special credit cards to purchase tobacco and alcohol that are connected directly to personal health savings accounts of users. First double the cost of a six-pack of beer and a pack of cigarettes. When users purchase the products the extra money goes into an account in their name that collects interest.

This will have two effects. It will pay for the medical expenses of the sickest among us and it will discourage the use of these poisons. In a generation it will relieve pressure on the medical infrastructure that is today at a critical stage.

No one is being ordered not to do anything. They can drink and smoke to their heart's content. They pay through the nose to save their hearts and livers. The federal government has no involvement. The states control and enforce the levies.

The people pay at the pump. This is just a start. There are many creative ways to pay for citizen healthcare that do not require a corrupt central authority.
Click to expand...

It would require no federal involvement to mandate interest on purchases and outlaw cash payment on tobacco and alcohol? I'd ask for whatever you're smoking but I have to take drug tests to keep my job.
 
RetiredUSN said:
And yet, the Europeans are discussing serious sustainability problems.

Tackling the tough problem of European health care sustainability – POLITICO

Like The U.S., Europe Wrestles With Health Care : Shots - Health News : NPR
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And one of the main reason for this is

Meet the guy behind the $750 AIDS drug - Sep. 22, 2015
Shkreli's company raised the price on a drug called Daraprim from $13.50 a pill to $750 overnight.
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Or this.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/22/hiv-aids-deaths-pharmaceutical-industry

All thanks in part to the free market thinking.
 
Deuce said:
It's because the demand curve for continuing to live is infinitely steep. How people think "the free market" is going to do this effectively is beyond me.
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There is no free market. There is however corrupt governments who get paid by big corporations to look away from their duty of care so that the corporations can profit by greed instead of profiting by the creation of wealth.
 
vegas giants said:
What is the point of government? Why do we have national defense if the government does not even try to keep us alive?
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The point of government is to improve the general welfare by setting the property rights and producing public goods. Allowing the government to do more only means that someone is worse off than necessary.
 
vegas giants said:
Nothing is more expensive than dying. If we can not have a government that tries to help keep us alive then what good is it at all?
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You do realize that there is something more expensive? If saving Hary uses the funds that could have been used to save you and your neigbors.
 
Dirt Sands said:
Medical bills are good for the economy too. It's true. Sick people are good for the economy

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Except they waste away and aren't productive.
 
Deuce said:
Emergency rooms don't count, dude, and most certainly are not free. In fact, that's the most expensive way to do anything in health care. This is your solution!?
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Except they are full of folks that don't pay and are so free for them. So they are free like any social program is free.
 
Ray9 said:
The government will destroy healthcare in the United States just like it has destroyed nearly everything it has got its hands on because It goes after the effect not the cause of bad health. We need to lead the way here not follow failed European models. Here is wisdom: We need to involve the free market and the trillions that are lining the pockets of poison manufacturers like tobacco and alcohol.

The technology exists to require special credit cards to purchase tobacco and alcohol that are connected directly to personal health savings accounts of users. First double the cost of a six-pack of beer and a pack of cigarettes. When users purchase the products the extra money goes into an account in their name that collects interest.

This will have two effects. It will pay for the medical expenses of the sickest among us and it will discourage the use of these poisons. In a generation it will relieve pressure on the medical infrastructure that is today at a critical stage.

No one is being ordered not to do anything. They can drink and smoke to their heart's content. They pay through the nose to save their hearts and livers. The federal government has no involvement. The states control and enforce the levies.

The people pay at the pump. This is just a start. There are many creative ways to pay for citizen healthcare that do not require a corrupt central authority.
Click to expand...
Keep the gov out of my Medicare as the trumpie said
Medicare overhead 2% free market Medicare advantage overhead 20%
I remember when they said competition among tv providers would lower my monthly payment below $10 a month.
Unfortunately as Goldwater said " people are greedy"
Why do you think jobs went overseas? Because 70% of large companies costs are in wages and benefits
 
joG said:
The point of government is to improve the general welfare by setting the property rights and producing public goods. Allowing the government to do more only means that someone is worse off than necessary.
Click to expand...

Improving the general welfare of its citizens too. Providing public school education, police protection, fire protection, roads and infrastructure, a military and so on......On that list should be health care....People of this country do not all deserve to have the best clothes, best cars, the best houses, the fanciest phones and so on....However, it is a human right that everybody in this country receive the BEST health care regardless of income. Having health care on the free market makes about as much sense as putting our military on the free market. It doesn't....People don't chose to get cancer, a disease, or an unavoidable illness.....It happens and for most people they can either lose most of what you have or lose their life which neither should be an option because of the lack of health coverage. It is ridiculous to think it makes sense to have insurance companies profit off our health. Insurance companies do not make money off sick people, before the ACA insurance companies could deny people with pre-existing conditions because they weren't profitable. Now we can make it illegal for insurance companies to deny people with pre-existing conditions but what good does that do? Middle class citizens wouldn't be able to afford decent coverage...Probably some garbage coverage that covers the bare minimum, exactly the opposite of what they need.
 
YorkshirePete said:
Keep the gov out of my Medicare as the trumpie said
Medicare overhead 2% free market Medicare advantage overhead 20%
I remember when they said competition among tv providers would lower my monthly payment below $10 a month.
Unfortunately as Goldwater said " people are greedy"
Why do you think jobs went overseas? Because 70% of large companies costs are in wages and benefits
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Btw, ever lived in Canada, U.K., Sweden? Civilized countries?
Health care approval is >90%
Guess not
 
joG said:
Except they are full of folks that don't pay and are so free for them. So they are free like any social program is free.
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Right. And when I rob a convenience store that's free money too. Anyone can get all the free money they want, so there's no such thing as poverty!!
 
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