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How to reduce health care prices 80% in 2 easy steps:

A lot of tecnological invention we use today in our mobiles, cars and clothes were developed by Governement(1970)
so then govt bureaucrats know best how to spend other people's money with no consequences and we should let them invent all the new products from now on!! You always make perfect sense. We could put Jobs Cook Gates Brin Page Bezos Zukerburg Bloomberg Ellison Musk to work doing other things.
 
so then govt bureaucrats know best how to spend other people's money with no consequences and we should let them invent all the new products from now on!! You always make perfect sense. We could put Jobs Cook Gates Brin Page Bezos Zukerburg Bloomberg Ellison Musk to work doing other things.

Not what I said.
The documentary is there explaining everything in case you truly is interested on the subject.
Without the government the guys you just mentioned would never be in the business they are now, because they would not have the technology.
About the health case, it would not have many of the medicines and treatments that private companies sell.
 
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so then govt bureaucrats know best how to spend other people's money with no consequences and we should let them invent all the new products from now on!! You always make perfect sense. We could put Jobs Cook Gates Brin Page Bezos Zukerburg Bloomberg Ellison Musk to work doing other things.


Actually, private companies dos not only make money selling what is made with tax payer money, but also with private information they get from people for free as if such information were their propriety, selling to other companies.

All the data we provide every time we are connected, visiting pages, liking contents and writing (even our own emails), is collected by companies like Google and Facebook in order to sell for many other companies. Datas does not is useful to sell adds but to create products and researches. It a very lucrative commodity that we give for free and companies make fortunes as if such info were their propriety and not propriety of those who provide.

Technically, companies like Google and Facebook should pay us when we use their services, because technically our private information is our commodity and not their commodity.
 
Technically, companies like Google and Facebook should pay us when we use their services, because technically our private information is our commodity and not their commodity.

subject is capitalism v socialism. You said we should hire bureaucrat inventors and abandon private inventors like Gates Jobs Brin Page Zukerburg Musk Bloomburg Bezos Ellison. Ever heard of Easy /west Germany?
 
Without the government the guys you just mentioned would never be in the business they are now, because they would not have the technology.
.
private sector invents 2000 to one versus public so we would have had better technology without govt intervention. USSR did not invent one single consumer product. What does that teach you.
 
subject is capitalism v socialism. You said we should hire bureaucrat inventors and abandon private inventors like Gates Jobs Brin Page Zukerburg Musk Bloomburg Bezos Ellison. Ever heard of Easy /west Germany?

Sorry, I thought the subject was health care system.

And no, I never said anything about abandoning private investors but the very opposite. I said without the government investment in researching and technology development such investors as Gates Jobs Brin Page Zukerburg Musk Bloomburg Bezos Ellison would not be in the business they are today.

private sector invents 2000 to one versus public so we would have had better technology without govt intervention. USSR did not invent one single consumer product. What does that teach you.

Not True.
I send two post to you with a large list of what USSR developed.

Without Government investment even the industrial revolution barely would happen. If you have internet, mobile phone, smart phone, computer complex urban structure today, it is only because of Government investment.
 
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you meant its important for govt to get out of the way for technology and health systems to develop- right? Ever heard of East /West Germany?

West Germany had socialized medicine.
 
private sector invents 2000 to one versus public so we would have had better technology without govt intervention. USSR did not invent one single consumer product. What does that teach you.

Most modern technology was spearheaded by government, before the commercial applications were clear: airplanes, rockets, lasers, nuclear energy, satellites, solid state, computers, internet, DNA and cancer biology, etc...

No private industry is going to be doing such esoteric basic science research before its potential profitability is clear. Only once the science and technology are more mature does it get transferred to the private industry to go make money on it. That's how it usually works: government funded research--->military--->civilian commercial use. It very rarely works any other way.

The most recent example of that is the new hypersonic jet engines which NASA has recently developed. Now that the technology is there, private industry has developed an interest in it. Of course, the air force is first to get a crack at it. They are looking at this technology very closely right now. But guesstimates are that in the next 20 years, it will eventually work its way to the private, commercial sectors, and you will be able to fly from San Francisco to Sydney, Australia, in about under 2 hours. Just enough time for a leisurely lunch followed by desert. Pretty cool.

Right now, governments all around the world have invested a lot of money in things like particle physics research, with large facilities like FermiLab in Chicago and the CERN particle collider in Switzerland, which recently found the Higgs Particle (the "God particle"). What are the commercial uses of this? No one really knows. If governments stop funding this research, what private corporation is going to take over research in this weird and esoteric field? No one, that's who. We don't understand this stuff very much, and they are trying to figure it out. It's not ready for the private sector yet.

There is a place for government research, and there is a place for commercial private development. Things have always worked best that way. You can't just shut one down in favor of the other.
 
Most modern technology was spearheaded by government,.

of course thats 100% stupid as if govt bureaucrats with no skin in the game have a crystal ball and know what to invent based on wild guessing. their guessing slowly killed 120 million. Why didn't they invent some food? If govt invents stuff what do Gates Jobs Brin Page Musk Bloomburg Ellison Bezos etc etc do??
 
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West Germany had socialized medicine.

West Germany had far more capitalism than East Germany and 10 times the per capita income. Has the liberal ever heard of Cuba/Florida?
 
I said without the government investment in researching and technology development such investors as Gates Jobs Brin Page Zukerburg Musk Bloomburg Bezos Ellison would not be in the business they are today.

govt planing business killed 120 million!! As if libcommie govt bureaucrats with no experience and skin in the game can make wild guesses and know what to invent. Jobs and Gates survived 1000 competitors, a libcommie bureaucrat survives nothing and mostly will produce nothing. Here's Obama's green jobs of the future and how much money govt lost:

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy=
 
govt planing business killed 120 million!! As if libcommie govt bureaucrats with no experience and skin in the game can make wild guesses and know what to invent. Jobs and Gates survived 1000 competitors, a libcommie bureaucrat survives nothing and mostly will produce nothing. Here's Obama's green jobs of the future and how much money govt lost:

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy=

Since when govern has planing business???
The goal of Govern is not business or worry how much is spent. This is why Governs can invest and create things that private enterprise would never do, make researches that takes decades without any guarantee of return like nuclear fusion and such. Government sent the first satellite to space and man to the moon, spending millions and for what? Just to see and show if they can. But the discoveries and technologies that comes from all these expensive researches and findings is what generate millions or billions to many many companies like Google, Facebook, Tesla, etc... And they return the government spending on their discoveries and researches by paying tax.
 
govt planing business killed 120 million!! As if libcommie govt bureaucrats with no experience and skin in the game can make wild guesses and know what to invent. Jobs and Gates survived 1000 competitors, a libcommie bureaucrat survives nothing and mostly will produce nothing. Here's Obama's green jobs of the future and how much money govt lost:

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy=

Since when govern has planing business???

The goal of Govern is not business or worry how much is spent. This is why Governs can invest and create things that private enterprise would never do, make researches that takes decades without any guarantee of return like nuclear fusion and such. Government sent the first satellite to space and man to the moon, spending millions and for what? Just to see and show if they can. But the discoveries and technologies that comes from all these expensive researches and findings is what generate millions or billions to many many companies like Google, Facebook, Tesla, etc... And they return the government spending on their discoveries and researches by paying tax and creting products and services with Government findings and financings.
 
of course thats 100% stupid as if govt bureaucrats with no skin in the game have a crystal ball and know what to invent based on wild guessing. their guessing slowly killed 120 million. Why didn't they invent some food? If govt invents stuff what do Gates Jobs Brin Page Musk Bloomburg Ellison Bezos etc etc do??

Without the government wild guessing and killing 120 million (according to you), most of the modern technologies that you enjoy now would not exist because they could only be found through wild guessing and killing 120 million.

Look how it works to develop medicines in the US:

The principal investors in drug development differ at each stage. While basic discovery research is funded primarily by government and by philanthropic organizations, late-stage development is funded mainly by pharmaceutical companies or venture capitalists. The period between discovery and proof of concept, however, is considered extremely risky and therefore has been difficult to fund. Several initiatives discussed below have been undertaken to overcome this funding gap.
[...]
Historically, the largest government investments in basic drug discovery research have been made by the National Institutes of Health (NIH). The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has also contributed to the discovery stage by taking on some relatively high-risk biologic projects. Moreover, in part as a result of the public’s impatience with the slow pace of the discovery process, state governments are increasingly taking the initiative in this area. One such example is the California Institute for Regenerative Medicine, a state agency established in 2005 by the California Stem Cell Research and Cures Initiative, which provides grants and loans for stem cell research and facilities at California’s research institutions and universities. Another example is the Texas Cancer Initiative, under which state funds are dedicated to cancer research conducted in Texas.
[...]
Between basic discovery research and late-stage development lies the critical step of proving the utility of a proposed drug. The funding gap that often occurs in this period has been referred to as the “valley of death.” The risks are great and may be considered as not worth taking for products designed to treat rare and neglected diseases, which may ultimately yield a very limited return on investment. To help fill this funding gap, U.S.-based foundations have increased their investments in discovery and development for new drugs specific to their diseases of interest. In 2007 such groups invested approximately $75 million in biopharmaceutical companies, a 10-fold increase since 2000 (Gambrill, 2007).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK50972/

West Germany had far more capitalism than East Germany and 10 times the per capita income. Has the liberal ever heard of Cuba/Florida?

Cuba is that island where Americans without money for medicine and treatments go in order to have access to healthcare that they don't have in America? Or is it Canada???
 
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of course thats 100% stupid as if govt bureaucrats with no skin in the game have a crystal ball and know what to invent based on wild guessing. their guessing slowly killed 120 million. Why didn't they invent some food? If govt invents stuff what do Gates Jobs Brin Page Musk Bloomburg Ellison Bezos etc etc do??

Wow. Are you really this slow? The premise is that government and state run universities do research to gain knowledge for the sake of knowledge. When the fruit of their labor produces something that is desirable or anticipated to be so, some commercial company comes in and purchases the right to use whatever it is. The idea is that doing all that random research that led up to [insert discovery here] is not profitable, so businesses don't do it.

In layman's terms, gov't and state-run universities throw mud at a wall, and the business world buys what sticks.
 
In layman's terms, gov't and state-run universities throw mud at a wall, and the business world buys what sticks.
so why did 120 million starve to death? why didn't they invent some food? Amazon started as a book company, did govt mud turn it into what it is? Did govt start Tesla with mud or did Musk start it?
USSR and Red China said they would bury us with lots of govt mud, opposite happened with private research in USA. IF govt bureaucrats knew what was good they'd quit and make billions themselves.
 
is not profitable, so businesses don't do it.
.

1000's of new high tech products each year and govt has next to nothing to do with any of them . Genius entrepreneur with their own money, that can be lost, do it all by themselves in a highly disciplined manner!! Show me a libcommie bureaucrat who quit and became a billionaire??

Obama was a communist like you and was sure he would rescue the economy with green jobs of the future. Here's how much tax money his wild soviet guesses lost:

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy=
 
Without the government wild guessing and killing 120 million (according to you), most of the modern technologies that you enjoy now would not exist because they could only be found through wild guessing and killing 120 million.

so as a standard libcommie you think govt bureaucrats making wild guesses is the best way to invent new products or best way to waste trillions? Do you know why the USSR never invented one single consumer product?
 
so as a standard libcommie you think govt bureaucrats making wild guesses is the best way to invent new products or best way to waste trillions? Do you know why the USSR never invented one single consumer product?

Those who invent consuming products are business, private investors, capitalists. But those who make huge investments for the knowledge sake, safety sake or for a low demand market that is yet essential for some people lives even if it has no guarantee of any financial return and develop technologies that would not be founded otherwise, are governments.

Try reading again:

The principal investors in drug development differ at each stage. While basic discovery research is funded primarily by government and by philanthropic organizations, late-stage development is funded mainly by pharmaceutical companies or venture capitalists. The period between discovery and proof of concept, however, is considered extremely risky and therefore has been difficult to fund. Several initiatives discussed below have been undertaken to overcome this funding gap.
[...]
Historically, the largest government investments in basic drug discovery research have been made by the National Institutes of Health (NIH). The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has also contributed to the discovery stage by taking on some relatively high-risk biologic projects. Moreover, in part as a result of the public’s impatience with the slow pace of the discovery process, state governments are increasingly taking the initiative in this area. One such example is the California Institute for Regenerative Medicine, a state agency established in 2005 by the California Stem Cell Research and Cures Initiative, which provides grants and loans for stem cell research and facilities at California’s research institutions and universities. Another example is the Texas Cancer Initiative, under which state funds are dedicated to cancer research conducted in Texas.
[...]
Between basic discovery research and late-stage development lies the critical step of proving the utility of a proposed drug. The funding gap that often occurs in this period has been referred to as the “valley of death.” The risks are great and may be considered as not worth taking for products designed to treat rare and neglected diseases, which may ultimately yield a very limited return on investment. To help fill this funding gap, U.S.-based foundations have increased their investments in discovery and development for new drugs specific to their diseases of interest. In 2007 such groups invested approximately $75 million in biopharmaceutical companies, a 10-fold increase since 2000 (Gambrill, 2007).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK50972/
 
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1) have people shop with their own money or vouchers and keep what they don't spend
2) have providers compete on basis of price and quality

Nope. For the one millionth time, we need to get to the root causes and work from the bottom up instead of from the top down. The top down approach does not work and does not do a damn thing to address the rising costs of healthcare.

Why do doctors have to pay so much for a college education?

Why does that MRI machine cost so much to make?

How can we keep the costs down of research and development?

Why does it cost so much to build that facility?

We need to work with the education system, providers, facilities, health insurers, and even Big Pharma to keep their costs down. They are the ones with the ever rising costs which they have to in turn raise their prices to cover their rising costs. Forcing them to accept less money doesn't address the root causes of why their costs are so high or going up.
 
Nope. For the one millionth time, we need to get to the root causes.

root cause of 20 million slowly starving to death because they could not afford food in USSR and REd China was a lack of capitalist competition to produce it cheaply.
our health care is socialist and thus now you understand why few can afford it.
 
root cause of 20 million slowly starving to death because they could not afford food in USSR and REd China was a lack of capitalist competition to produce it cheaply.
our health care is socialist and thus now you understand why few can afford it.

Socialism, by definition, means the government pays it for you. So affordability is not an issue if our health system is socialist.
 
Socialism, by definition, means the government pays it for you. So affordability is not an issue if our health system is socialist.

100% perfectly wrong and liberal. 120 million slowly starved to death in USSR and Red China because govt could not pay for it. Now do you understand?
 
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