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Trump makes thinly-veiled threat against NBC et al

Deuce

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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/918112884630093825

(I refuse to put tweets in a news section)

[FONT=&quot]With all of the Fake News coming out of NBC and the Networks, at what point is it appropriate to challenge their License? Bad for country![/FONT]

Here's the thing, dip****: The FCC doesn't license NBC, ABC, etc. They license individual broadcast stations. Also **** you, getting rid of media opposition is what dictators do.
 
Time to get use to it, he'll never change.

Make you you prepare as much as you can for two things ...

A) When Tax Reform Fails, watch the market
B) North Korea
 
So how many posts will it take until someone knowingly and falsely claims that what Trump is threatening is just like the idea of investigating Russian interference in our elections (it's happened in a related thread already)?




See, we need to keep an eye on this guy. The Courts would eventually squash any attempt by him to use government force to punish media for saying things he doesn't like, but he could do some damage in the meantime if someone tells him about things he might actually be able to do to accomplish that.

Dangerous authoritarian tendencies.

Ah well, if people think it's more important to "get" liberals or liberal media than to worry about this kind of behavior, we're probably already doomed anyway.....
 
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/918112884630093825

(I refuse to put tweets in a news section)



Here's the thing, dip****: The FCC doesn't license NBC, ABC, etc. They license individual broadcast stations. Also **** you, getting rid of media opposition is what dictators do.

He is right that the media are feeding extremely misleading information to their audiences.

He is wrong to believe that forbidding them reporting it is the solution.
 
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/918112884630093825

(I refuse to put tweets in a news section)



Here's the thing, dip****: The FCC doesn't license NBC, ABC, etc. They license individual broadcast stations. Also **** you, getting rid of media opposition is what dictators do.

There is no position where a neutral observer could reconcile this dictator's fascism with a respect for American values. I don't think we've ever had a president who hated America this much.
 
Anybody remember the Fairness Doctrine?
The FCC eliminated the policy in 1987 and removed the rule that implemented the policy from the Federal Register in August 2011.[1]
The Fairness Doctrine had two basic elements: It required broadcasters to devote some of their airtime to discussing controversial matters of public interest, and to air contrasting views regarding those matters. Stations were given wide latitude as to how to provide contrasting views: It could be done through news segments, public affairs shows, or editorials. The doctrine did not require equal time for opposing views but required that contrasting viewpoints be presented. The demise of this FCC rule has been considered by some to be a contributing factor for the rising level of party polarization in the United States.

A present day example of how this is working out for Americans is seen with Sinclair Broadcast Group which presently owns 173 TV stations and is negotiating the purchase of an additional 60. The corporate HQ requires that local news broadcasts on each of their stations read 'news' pieces every night that are written by a very conservative group at headquarters.

from Washington Post, this past December
How the nation’s largest owner of TV stations helped Donald Trump’s campaign

Sinclair, which has drawn criticism for favoring conservative candidates before, says it had no special arrangement with Trump’s campaign and that it didn’t favor him at the expense of his main rival, Democrat Hillary Clinton. It also said it offered equal time to Clinton and solicited interviews with her throughout the campaign, but her managers responded less enthusiastically than Trump. A Sinclair spokeswoman says the company reached out to the Clinton camp roughly 30 times over the course of the campaign but never secured a sit-down with the candidate.

Those statements appear to be at odds with comments made last week by Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and a key adviser. In a speech to business executives in New York, Kushner said Trump’s campaign struck a deal with Sinclair to provide access and coverage, according to an account of the address by Politico. Kushner reportedly said that Sinclair’s stations, particularly in swing states such as Ohio and Florida, reached a far greater audience in their local area than a national network like CNN could. “It’s math,” he said.
 
So how many posts will it take until someone knowingly and falsely claims that what Trump is threatening is just like the idea of investigating Russian interference in our elections (it's happened in a related thread already)?




See, we need to keep an eye on this guy. The Courts would eventually squash any attempt by him to use government force to punish media for saying things he doesn't like, but he could do some damage in the meantime if someone tells him about things he might actually be able to do to accomplish that.

Dangerous authoritarian tendencies.

Ah well, if people think it's more important to "get" liberals or liberal media than to worry about this kind of behavior, we're probably already doomed anyway.....
I don't think it's more important to get anyone and I do not support censorship. However I would support better regulation of truth in advertising. There is way too much legal fraud going unchallenged. Everything from late night info commercials to unveiled news articles. We do need some kind of consumer protection and have for a long time. If there is proof of fraud I have no problem with the gov penalizing the guilty.

Now that I have gotten that out of the way I want to point out how gullible the left is with this stuff. Trump makes a tweet that he knows won't happen. The left however reacts in the predictable way of sensationalizing what he said and the talking heads want to talk about it. Meanwhile everyone is talking about the topic of fake news. Trump wins! He is keeping the theme alive and the left is unwittingly helping him do it.

But you guys keep thinking the guy is a moron while he runs circles around you.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
I don't think it's more important to get anyone and I do not support censorship. However I would support better regulation of truth in advertising. There is way too much legal fraud going unchallenged. Everything from late night info commercials to unveiled news articles. We do need some kind of consumer protection and have for a long time. If there is proof of fraud I have no problem with the gov penalizing the guilty.

Truth in advertising?

Yeah, but fraudulent advertising of products has nothing to do with what's going on here. There definitely could be better restrictions on what companies say about products they sell, but, that's a different subject entirely than threatening left-leaning media with punishment to cow it. The latter is a direct threat to the core of the right to free speech. (Not to say that the founders didn't do worse at times)





Now that I have gotten that out of the way I want to point out how gullible the left is with this stuff. Trump makes a tweet that he knows won't happen. The left however reacts in the predictable way of sensationalizing what he said and the talking heads want to talk about it. Meanwhile everyone is talking about the topic of fake news. Trump wins! He is keeping the theme alive and the left is unwittingly helping him do it. But you guys keep thinking the guy is a moron while he runs circles around you.

I think you're just speculating about this actually being some really clever ploy by Trump because the alternative is far scarier.

I'd also note that another indicator that we're doomed is that a sizable portion of one side of the political spectrum acts as if pissing off the other side is the hallmark of a good politician.




This is the most powerful nation on Earth, but it's been treated like a playground sandbox.
 
Truth in advertising?

Yeah, but fraudulent advertising of products has nothing to do with what's going on here. There definitely could be better restrictions on what companies say about products they sell, but, that's a different subject entirely than threatening left-leaning media with punishment to cow it. The latter is a direct threat to the core of the right to free speech. (Not to say that the founders didn't do worse at times)







I think you're just speculating about this actually being some really clever ploy by Trump because the alternative is far scarier.

I'd also note that another indicator that we're doomed is that a sizable portion of one side of the political spectrum acts as if pissing off the other side is the hallmark of a good politician.




This is the most powerful nation on Earth, but it's been treated like a playground sandbox.
I would argue that adversizing a miracle weight loss pill with fine print that says result require diet and exercise and results not typical is on a par with the stuff being dubbed as fake news.

I am speculating, that's true. You can disagree but it's what it looks like to me.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
I would argue that adversizing a miracle weight loss pill with fine print that says result require diet and exercise and results not typical is on a par with the stuff being dubbed as fake news.

I am speculating, that's true. You can disagree but it's what it looks like to me.


You can call advertisements fake news and you can talk about what you believe, but that doesn't change the reality.


Advertisements of products =/= news media reports.

They aren't treated the same way, for rather obvious reasons. Advertisements can be directly regulated, ie, by prohibiting companies from claiming a product treats a disease when it has not been so approved by the FDA.

News media reports cannot be directly regulated like that. At most, a slanderous statement might be subject to a civil suit. For various reasons, it's easier for a private individual to win a slander suit than it is a public figure. But either way, that's one entity suing another, not the federal government using its power to enforce content-based restraints on speech.
 
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You can call advertisements fake news and you can talk about what you believe, but that doesn't change the reality.


Advertisements of products =/= news media reports.

They aren't treated the same way, for rather obvious reasons. Advertisements can be directly regulated, ie, by prohibiting companies from claiming a product treats a disease when it has not been so approved by the FDA.

News media reports cannot be directly regulated like that. At most, a slanderous statement might be subject to a civil suit. For various reasons, it's easier for a private individual to win a slander suit than it is a public figure. But either way, that's one person suing another, not the federal government using its power to enforce content-based restraints on speech.
News media is a product. It's no different than a miracle drug using the disclaimer that these statement have not been evaluated by the FDA as it is for a news story to cite something from an anonymous source. They are both making unverified claims about their product.

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And I've got to add that something strikes me as very odd in this context.

Generally speaking, the people who support Trump have embraced a distrust of government more pronounced than ever. Yet those same people seem to want to see "the media" regulated for "truth".

How does this make sense to those people? If you don't trust the government, the very last thing you should ask for is for the government to use force to punish media it deems untruthful.



They seem to be assuming that only left-leaning media is biased and therefore only left-leaning media is likely to be punished for unTruth in this brave new world. That's obviously wrong to anyone within a light-year of the center. But let's assume it's true, ok? What do those people think is going to happen to right wing media when power swings back to the left, once government has seized power to punish unTrue at their behest?
 
News media is a product. It's no different than a miracle drug using the disclaimer that these statement have not been evaluated by the FDA as it is for a news story to cite something from an anonymous source. They are both making unverified claims about their product.

At this point in a conversation, I can only note that they are different and that is why they have been treated differently. It may be your opinion that they should be treated the same way, but again, they have not been treated the same way.

If the government tries punishing a media outlet on a claim that it's political speech is wrong, no court is going to uphold it. Not unless the entire federal judiciary is replaced with non-lawyers from breitbart.com
 
At this point in a conversation, I can only note that they are different and that is why they have been treated differently. It may be your opinion that they should be treated the same way, but again, they have not been treated the same way.

If the government tries punishing a media outlet on a claim that it's political speech is wrong, no court is going to uphold it. Not unless the entire federal judiciary is replaced with non-lawyers from breitbart.com
We can agree to disagree on the first part.

On the second part, I agree it would be a step to far to punish political speak. It's interesting though you went there when the topic is the news media. News is not presented as a partisan product we are told it is objective. If it's presented as objective and it's not that is fraud.

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On the second part, I agree it would be a step to far to punish political speak. It's interesting though you went there when the topic is the news media. News is not presented as a partisan product we are told it is objective. If it's presented as objective and it's not that is fraud.

A few things. First, you're inserting the word "product." Second, "Fraud" has a very specific legal definition, which differs depending on whether we're talking about state or federal law. That doesn't have anything to do with biased news media.



Third, I'm not aware of any requirement that for a thing to be treated as political speech in court, aka in the context of a first amendment issue, that it has to be deemed objectively neutral. In fact, there could be no such requirement because quite literally no person on Earth ever has, is, or ever will be objectively neutral. There is no such thing as objectively true things in political speech except for the report of a naked fact.

That gets me back to what I was saying earlier. If news media reports something as a naked fact and that fact is objectively false, aka, if Keith Olbermann says "Donald Trump participated in a bukkake video with me, on 10/12/14", then the media can be sued for libel/slander. But everything else is simply political speech regardless of whether or not the media outlet claims to be fair & balanced, objectively neutral, or whatever. News reports are political speech.

It's only false facts that are subject to suit.

You could not sue Olberman for saying "I think Trump is a big dumbass", for example. That's political speech, even if he says it on a show called "The truthiest truthful objective facts"


So that's the difference in treatment between facts in a news report and everything else in a news report. So what's the need for adding an agency?

There's no need for a government agency to try to impose additional punishments over it, any such punishments would almost certainly be unlawful as they would be content-based restrictions on political speech, and there is no need for government to try to impose duplicative punishments for libel/slander when we already have lawsuits for that.

The more I type, I also begin to wonder whether the statute enabling creature of such an agency would stand up if challenged. Seems pretty clear to me that its creation alone, without regard to any actions it might take, creates a real danger that free political speech will be chilled.
 
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A few things. First, you're inserting the word "product." Second, "Fraud" has a very specific legal definition, which differs depending on whether we're talking about state or federal law. That doesn't have anything to do with biased news media.



Third, I'm not aware of any requirement that for a thing to be treated as political speech in court, aka in the context of a first amendment issue, that it has to be deemed objectively neutral. In fact, there could be no such requirement because quite literally no person on Earth ever has, is, or ever will be objectively neutral. There is no such thing as objectively true things in political speech except for the report of a naked fact.

That gets me back to what I was saying earlier. If news media reports something as a naked fact and that fact is objectively false, aka, if Keith Olbermann says "Donald Trump participated in a bukkake video with me, on 10/12/14", then the media can be sued for libel/slander. But everything else is simply political speech regardless of whether or not the media outlet claims to be fair & balanced, objectively neutral, or whatever. News reports are political speech.

It's only false facts that are subject to suit.

You could not sue Olberman for saying "I think Trump is a big dumbass", for example. That's political speech, even if he says it on a show called "The truthiest truthful objective facts"


So that's the difference in treatment between facts in a news report and everything else in a news report. So what's the need for adding an agency?

There's no need for a government agency to try to impose additional punishments over it, any such punishments would almost certainly be unlawful as they would be content-based restrictions on political speech, and there is no need for government to try to impose duplicative punishments for libel/slander when we already have lawsuits for that.

The more I type, I also begin to wonder whether the statute enabling creature of such an agency would stand up if challenged. Seems pretty clear to me that its creation alone, without regard to any actions it might take, creates a real danger that free political speech will be chilled.
The logic your using and argument your making is exactly why info commercials get away with peddling snake oil to people. I know you don't agree but it's the same difference.

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The logic your using and argument your making is exactly why info commercials get away with peddling snake oil to people. I know you don't agree but it's the same difference.


The problem here is that the conversation is mixing colloquial talk and legal talk.

Colloquially, yes, in a sense you can say that a biased media report is to some degree trying to sell a certain viewpoint. However, the legal realm is what is going to determine whether or not some kind of media-monitoring agency can exist and what it can permissibly do. In the legal realm, an advertisement of a product is not considered political speech, but a news report would be. That drives the distinction.

Ultimately, commercial speech (advertising) is protected, but it gets less protection than political speech.





That's what I'm trying to explain.
 
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So how many posts will it take until someone knowingly and falsely claims that what Trump is threatening is just like the idea of investigating Russian interference in our elections (it's happened in a related thread already)?




See, we need to keep an eye on this guy. The Courts would eventually squash any attempt by him to use government force to punish media for saying things he doesn't like, but he could do some damage in the meantime if someone tells him about things he might actually be able to do to accomplish that.

Dangerous authoritarian tendencies.

Ah well, if people think it's more important to "get" liberals or liberal media than to worry about this kind of behavior, we're probably already doomed anyway.....

Today Trump said it was "disgusting" that news media can say anything they want. He believes the 1st amendment is disgusting.

President Trump today: Live updates - CNNPolitics
 
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