• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NFL Players now 'Scared' to take a knee,'People have to feed they family' [W:226]

Moderator's Warning:
People, focus on the topic of the thread, not on each other.
 
holbritter said:
Because he doesn't goes that way. He'll just badger you and ignore your answers. Been there, done that. Not worth the effort.
Click to expand...

holbritter said:
Exhibit A - post #213
Click to expand...

AlbqOwl said:
Only if he does it. He can't. So he won't. And my scroll wheel works really really good. :)
Click to expand...

AlbqOwl said:
But I didn't READ Post #213 you see. It did not offer what I requested. And like I said, my scroll wheel works really well. :)
Click to expand...

LOL
Staying on topic, the fact remains thinking that kneeling is or isn't disrespectful is just an opinion and nothing more. Facts, reality and the definition of words all prove this. This is why the minority of people that claim their feelings are facts on this topic (in both directions) can't explain why it factually is. Those that feel its factually NOT disrespectful and those that feel it factually IS disrespectful can't offer anything more than feelings. I wonder why that is. The point to freedom, or tradition etc but none of that stuff makes it fact. Its all just more feelings and opinion.

It reminds me of the same false claims about gender and race and religion and sexual orientation etc. Some people claimed something is factually wrong but when challenged to back up those same failed claims ot one accurate, logical, reality based, intellectually sound and honest reason to defend them could be provided. :shrug:

So by all means if you or anybody feels its factually disrespectful or not, simply provide a reason why your feelings are facts and everybody else's magically don't count. I'd love to read it, thanks!
 
AGENT J said:
LOL
Staying on topic, the fact remains thinking that kneeling is or isn't disrespectful is just an opinion and nothing more. Facts, reality and the definition of words all prove this. This is why the minority of people that claim their feelings are facts on this topic (in both directions) can't explain why it factually is. Those that feel its factually NOT disrespectful and those that feel it factually IS disrespectful can't offer anything more than feelings. I wonder why that is. The point to freedom, or tradition etc but none of that stuff makes it fact. Its all just more feelings and opinion.

It reminds me of the same false claims about gender and race and religion and sexual orientation etc. Some people claimed something is factually wrong but when challenged to back up those same failed claims ot one accurate, logical, reality based, intellectually sound and honest reason to defend them could be provided. :shrug:

So by all means if you or anybody feels its factually disrespectful or not, simply provide a reason why your feelings are facts and everybody else's magically don't count. I'd love to read it, thanks!
Click to expand...

Not claiming my feelings are facts. :shrug:
 
holbritter said:
Not claiming my feelings are facts. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Did I say you specifically were in that post? :shrug:

So you admit to the fact that thinking kneeling for the anthem is or is not disrespectful is nothing more than opinion. Yes or No?
 
36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem
US Code

The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—​
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and​

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.​
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301

There is nothing in the protocol suggesting that kneeling or failing to maintain protocol during the rendition of the National Anthem is appropriate if people are angry at some organization or something is wrong in the world.

Deliberate and quite public refusal to maintain protocol re The National Anthem is entirely legal as is refusal to say 'please' and 'thank you' when appropriate or failure to extend other courtesies or inappropriately ignoring people or groups.

And all of the above will be judged disrespectful by most people.
 
AlbqOwl said:
36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem
US Code

The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—​
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and​

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.​
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301

There is nothing in the protocol suggesting that kneeling or failing to maintain protocol during the rendition of the National Anthem is appropriate if people are angry at some organization or something is wrong in the world.

Deliberate and quite public refusal to maintain protocol re The National Anthem is entirely legal as is refusal to say 'please' and 'thank you' when appropriate or failure to extend other courtesies or inappropriately ignoring people or groups.

And all of the above will be judged disrespectful by most people.
Click to expand...

"judge by people"

meaning nothing more than OPINION and FEELINGS

LMAO AWESOME!!! Thanks again for proving me right:lamo

Fact remains, thinking kneeling is or isn't disrespectful is just an opinion and nothing more. I directly challenge anybody to provided one fact that changes that. Thanks
 
Absentglare said:
They heard and responded to the ceremony they were neglecting to respect: by cracking a joke.

You mistake my criticism. My criticism is not that what President Trump did was evil. My criticism is that President Trump is a hypocrite for flipping his **** over a private citizen neglecting to respect the flag, while, himself, neglecting to respect the flag.
Click to expand...
I'm not a Trump fan. Don't think I need to establish that in detail.

I'm also not a Hannity fan. He's either brick-wall stupid, or brilliant at playing one on TV.

But if you are indoors, then you are indoors.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
cpwill said:
I'm not a Trump fan. Don't think I need to establish that in detail.

I'm also not a Hannity fan. He's either brick-wall stupid, or brilliant at playing one on TV.

But if you are indoors, then you are indoors.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well, i don't actually have a problem with what President Trump did during the interview: it's the hypocrisy/inconsistency in how he treats the NFL players that bothers me.

If he expects everyone to drop everything and revere the flag at every opportunity, he seems to be failing to meet that standard, himself.
 
Absentglare said:
Well, i don't actually have a problem with what President Trump did during the interview: it's the hypocrisy/inconsistency in how he treats the NFL players that bothers me.

If he expects everyone to drop everything and revere the flag at every opportunity, he seems to be failing to meet that standard, himself.
Click to expand...
No, there is a difference between disrespecting a flag when you are actually outside in the ceremony and sitting in a completely different location.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
cpwill said:
No, there is a difference between disrespecting a flag when you are actually outside in the ceremony and sitting in a completely different location.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

And yet taking a knee is an act of respect.
 
Absentglare said:
And yet taking a knee is an act of respect.
Click to expand...

Unless, of course, one is in a situation where the respectful act is to stand and place one's hand over one's heart.
 
Praxas said:
Yes yes we must make people think how you want them to think and if they don’t, punish them. They must not be allowed any free speech rights they must be forced to conform comrade. Good on you, Stalin would be proud comrade.
Click to expand...

What 'protest', or what are they saying it is now? Freaking liars- they knew they messed up the day Kaepernick 'took a knee'... he/they realized hating on our troops and the flag was not going to roll, so what do they do? Change the protest/hate.. this is disgusting display of so-called 'protesting'.. and FTR it's not 'freedom of speech', it was freedom to hate. Period.
 
cpwill said:
Unless, of course, one is in a situation where the respectful act is to stand and place one's hand over one's heart.
Click to expand...

My opinion is that forcing people to go through the motions of nationalism is in direct opposition to the values that the flag, itself, represents.
 
cpwill said:
I'm not a Trump fan. Don't think I need to establish that in detail.

I'm also not a Hannity fan. He's either brick-wall stupid, or brilliant at playing one on TV.

But if you are indoors, then you are indoors.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

So, domed stadiums are indoors...
 
Absentglare said:
My opinion is that forcing people to go through the motions of nationalism is in direct opposition to the values that the flag, itself, represents.
Click to expand...
Hm. I would offer that your opinion is self-contradicting. If honoring our country by honoring the flag education represents it is inherently nationalistic, well, forcing people to participate is not at all contrary to the spirit of Nationalism, which is, after all, a collectivist philosophy. If you wanted to say it was about Patriotism, then you may have a stronger case.
 
beefheart said:
So, domed stadiums are indoors...
Click to expand...
With a flag ceremony taking place in them. If the ceremony were taking place outside (say, at the for station across the street), then the people in that stadium would be no more obligated than (in this case) Trump and Hannity were.
 
cpwill said:
Hm. I would offer that your opinion is self-contradicting. If honoring our country by honoring the flag education represents it is inherently nationalistic, well, forcing people to participate is not at all contrary to the spirit of Nationalism, which is, after all, a collectivist philosophy. If you wanted to say it was about Patriotism, then you may have a stronger case.
Click to expand...

I don't think i phrased my statement very well.

I am not trying to suggest that forcing people to participate is contrary to nationalism. I am suggesting that forcing people to engage in nationalism is contrary to freedom, and i believe that the flag represents freedom.
 
I would submit that all those NOT kneeling during the anthem are the ones being disrespectful to our troops and their sacrifices. Those that kneel are doing so to show the symbolism of laying at the feet of our servicemen and women their appreciation for our troops' valiant bravery and heroism in their effort to keep our country's freedoms.

amidoinitrite?

This is all a bunch of BS. The kneelers are doing the very thing that our troops are fighting for. Namely, the freedom to protest something you disagree with, even if that thing you disagree with are some of the very people protecting those freedoms.

It's quite the quandary, I know. And I'm constantly amazed at how difficult it is for people to be objective. (And not just about this issue, but in general).
 
Absentglare said:
I don't think i phrased my statement very well.

I am not trying to suggest that forcing people to participate is contrary to nationalism. I am suggesting that forcing people to engage in nationalism is contrary to freedom, and i believe that the flag represents freedom.
Click to expand...
No, I don't think you can have it both ways. Either the flag represents Nationalism, or it represents Freedom.
 
Absentglare said:
I don't think i phrased my statement very well.

I am not trying to suggest that forcing people to participate is contrary to nationalism. I am suggesting that forcing people to engage in nationalism is contrary to freedom, and i believe that the flag represents freedom.
Click to expand...
No, I don't think you can have it both ways. Either the flag represents Nationalism, or it represents Freedom. It can't be Nationalism when that is convenient for folks you side with, but freedom when inconvenient.
 
cpwill said:
No, I don't think you can have it both ways. Either the flag represents Nationalism, or it represents Freedom. It can't be Nationalism when that is convenient for folks you side with, but freedom when inconvenient.
Click to expand...

I can represent both freedom and nationalism, the flag is a symbol and what the values it represents are decided upon by what the people think it represents. However what people think the flag represents differs due to different perspectives.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I can represent both freedom and nationalism, the flag is a symbol and what the values it represents are decided upon by what the people think it represents. However what people think the flag represents differs due to different perspectives.
Click to expand...

That's a very interesting opinion. I'll bet it carries over well into debates about the Confederate flag.

In this case, however, Absentglare is claiming that the flag stands for nationalism in the second when someone refuses to stand for it, but freedom 30 seconds later when someone tells them to stand. So there is no "differing perspectives"; just Absentglare's self-contradicting ones.
 
cpwill said:
No, I don't think you can have it both ways. Either the flag represents Nationalism, or it represents Freedom.
Click to expand...

cpwill said:
No, I don't think you can have it both ways. Either the flag represents Nationalism, or it represents Freedom. It can't be Nationalism when that is convenient for folks you side with, but freedom when inconvenient.
Click to expand...

Forcing someone to worship a symbol of our nation is nationalism.

Allowing someone to protest a symbol of our nation is freedom.

The flag represents our nation in either case. The question then becomes what values our nation represents.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom