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NY Times ISIS expert does a 180, thinks Vegas slaughter might be ISIS after all

bearpoker said:
I can't speak for left leaning posters, but I don't believe there is an ISIS connection because because it doesn't fit the pattern at all. ISIS recruits from young, disaffected, males with a Muslim background who are not especially religious. This man was none of those things. He spent his leisure time in casino's, not Mosques. There is more evidence that he had a homicidal grudge against country music fans than that he was an Islamic militant out for glorious martyrdom and a trove of virgins.
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If your asking my opinion on his motive, I'm really in the dark at this point. There are reports that he may of been casing other concert venues that you would expect to have a more liberal audience. This guy is a mystery and I agree he does not fit the ISIS profile either. That's not my opinion it is the opinion of the NYT expert. We really don't have enough information to conclude anything yet.

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Hey rightys be bold tell us where you heard this big news ....which bat **** factory
 
Mach said:
It's because it's ****ing dumb. I would seek to intervene if a family member suddenly making such dumb claims, I mean, I would assume it may be a brain tumor or something causing it.

You, Hawkeye10, Volsrock, are all flush in the face with "evidence" based on Isis claiming responsibility....but in all matters Trump I'm sure we can find that you've all outright denied far more substantial, more plentiful evidence, and all the "fake news" when sources are (credible) anonymous, for the ENTIRE ****ING YEAR. But Isis claims something you like and you're suddenly all bloodhounds on the case?

All about the crazy train!!! I'm sure a few more usual suspects will climb aboard, they can't help themselves.
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I have not concluded anything ISIS is just one possibility being explored. You want to dismiss that, be my guest, but the NYT has not dismissed it yet.

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If I were actually in a position to dismiss the possibility of an ISIS connection, that is actually investigating the crime, I would not, because I would try not to close off any possibility, however remote. Happily for me, I am not in that position so I can say with total freedom that it is absolute bull****, second only to the theory that he was brainwashed by extraterrestrial little gray space aliens.

ETA: besides, I'm not trying to sell newspapers.
 
bearpoker said:
If I were actually in a position to dismiss the possibility of an ISIS connection, that is actually investigating the crime, I would not, because I would try not to close off any possibility, however remote. Happily for me, I am not in that position so I can say with total freedom that it is absolute bull****, second only to the theory that he was brainwashed by extraterrestrial little gray space aliens.

ETA: besides, I'm not trying to sell newspapers.
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Are you questioning the integrity of the NYT? They are the gold standard of left wing journalism.

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trouble13 said:
Are you questioning the integrity of the NYT? They are the gold standard of left wing journalism.

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First of all, opinion writers are not news reporters. Just because whats her name, I forget, thinks maybe ISIS is involved, doesn't mean the NYT does. Second, it's to their advantage to keep the story going. Reporting stuff like 20 foreign cruises may be accurate but its' relevance is dubious.
 
Thoreau72 said:
It shouldn't, but it does still amaze me how so many americans so easily and quickly elevate muslims to super power status.

From this guy to Hani The Magnificent, many attribute mad skills to ordinary humans.
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I don't really get this. Aside Truthing, it kinda looks like cheerleading for nefarious fellows.
 
Its weird about how so many liberals are more concerned about preserving their narrative then getting at the truth.

At this point, nothing should be off the table - no one knows why the guy did it. Liberals don't even want to consider the possibility that Isis was involved. What a sucky ideology.
 
bearpoker said:
First of all, opinion writers are not news reporters. Just because whats her name, I forget, thinks maybe ISIS is involved, doesn't mean the NYT does. Second, it's to their advantage to keep the story going. Reporting stuff like 20 foreign cruises may be accurate but its' relevance is dubious.
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So you don't trust the NYT faith in her as an expert?

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ecofarm said:
I don't really get this. Aside Truthing, it kinda looks like cheerleading for nefarious fellows.
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My point was, however poorly I put it, that so many americans seem happy to attribute great success and skills to (in this case) ISIS. Some are ready to say that ISIS pulled off the Mandalay Bay event, even though the cops are saying ISIS had nothing to do with it, even though they've planted a few bread crumbs with "he may have become radicalized" or some such language.

It's rather the equivalent of saying "the Russians did it".
 
holbritter said:
And they got nothing?
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According to what I've read, in general terms they are satisfied with what she told them. She is not being held, but obviously the case is not closed.
 
Thoreau72 said:
My point was, however poorly I put it, that so many americans seem happy to attribute great success and skills to (in this case) ISIS. Some are ready to say that ISIS pulled off the Mandalay Bay event, even though the cops are saying ISIS had nothing to do with it, even though they've planted a few bread crumbs with "he may have become radicalized" or some such language.

It's rather the equivalent of saying "the Russians did it".
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French state TV after the Vegas shooting interviewed some guy they claim is a terrorist expert. I saw the show right after the Vegas attacks, so, I was aware this Eastern looking man that tracks terrorist online in 3 languages had stated it would be unusual or out of the norm for ISIS to take credit for something they didn't do.

ISIS is apparently taking credit on one of their websites. The Russians did not take credit on say a Kremlin website.

I never mentioned this French news episode or the guest that supposedly is a terrorist expert because I was never sure--he does n't even seem sure--how true the ISIS claim is. Plus, from what little of the shooter I know about, he seemed more like a typical secular American "done well" and enjoy Sin City with the gambling thing than an enthusiastic convert to a hardcore sect of Islam.





Fast forward to the 9:30 mark and the guest on the French news show speaks about a possible link (Vegas shooting) to ISIS. Bearing in mind this is French state TV broadcast in English (like German DW news, Russian RT news, Qatari Al Jazzera news) meant to target English speaking audiences/countries such as the USA. (But you won't hear accusations that the French are interfering in US democracy or that they spread the ISIS claim to create division and fighting between Americans etc.)

 
FastPace said:
French state TV after the Vegas shooting interviewed some guy they claim is a terrorist expert. I saw the show right after the Vegas attacks, so, I was aware this Eastern looking man that tracks terrorist online in 3 languages had stated it would be unusual or out of the norm for ISIS to take credit for something they didn't do.

ISIS is apparently taking credit on one of their websites. The Russians did not take credit on say a Kremlin website.

I never mentioned this French news episode or the guest that supposedly is a terrorist expert because I was never sure--he does n't even seem sure--how true the ISIS claim is. Plus, from what little of the shooter I know about, he seemed more like a typical secular American "done well" and enjoy Sin City with the gambling thing than an enthusiastic convert to a hardcore sect of Islam.





Fast forward to the 9:30 mark and the guest on the French news show speaks about a possible link (Vegas shooting) to ISIS. Bearing in mind this is French state TV broadcast in English (like German DW news, Russian RT news, Qatari Al Jazzera news) meant to target English speaking audiences/countries such as the USA. (But you won't hear accusations that the French are interfering in US democracy or that they spread the ISIS claim to create division and fighting between Americans etc.)

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That might have something to do with the fact that the French are our allies. The Russians are adversaries. There is a difference, no matter what the Trumpets think. When a country has a long history of anti American propaganda and is led by a KGB officer it makes sense.
 
Conservatives let's be clear the fact that you are reading these stories do not make them fact. You will all find this out very soon. The facts remain that 3% of the population owns 50% of the registered guns. The 2nd amendment allows us the right to bear arms not to assemble a armory. The Conservatives hate Socialism and Communism yet they allow the POTUS to attack the Judiciary to attack the free press.....which I remind you all is in the CONSTITUTION. You guys are so easy to accept anything that fits in your shadow box of thinking. The only people trying to ruin this country is you!!!!!! It is you that supports this Putin thug and your boy man child.....and you guys thinks Vlad wants to protect Democracy. LOL
 
bearpoker said:
That might have something to do with the fact that the French are our allies. The Russians are adversaries. There is a difference, no matter what the Trumpets think. When a country has a long history of anti American propaganda and is led by a KGB officer it makes sense.
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I though "countries" were not individual humans, therefore supposedly the old maxim goes, "Countries have no permanent friends, no permanent enemies, only permanent interests."

So how would one logically--not emotionally--reconcile the concept the French could never, ever, stab "America" in the back? The Russians are not my adversary anyways. Nor do I believe the French or Russians are interfering in "American democracy" by news reporting.

The French are American allies like the Saudis. But concerning the historic visit (first of its kind) of the King of Saudi Arabia to Russia recall that old maxim I typed above that is soooooooooooo often recited by supposedly "sophisticated, and intelligent Americans about 'political science.'"



Qatar news:




Your friend the French via their state news:


Saudi King Salman meets Vladimir Putin in Russia: "Oil is a giant factor here!"
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Iranian state TV news:





You're unaware Vladimir Putin supposedly subscribes to an old political science school of thought called "Realism"? I've never taken any political science courses, but my very limited understanding is this school of thought teaches and believes that different countries have different cultures, values, and at times interests, and you accept that and dialogue with everyone.

You're unaware modern Democrats today are supposedly moved by a different school of thought, that essentially believes in carrying out de facto Holy Crusades to convert the world to the beliefs and values of Americans? You're unaware of this? There is a name for this school of thought but I can't remember it. But it is a reason why Democratic politicians seek to appeal to Americans emotions rather than their reasoning.

The neo-cons among the Republicans are under a different way of thinking. They are warmongers too.

Anyways, while you Americans are emotionally charged up in your Holy Crusade and think countries are like individual people that grew up on the same block and went to school together, much of the rest of the world is starting to realign itself (again, based on that maxim above).
 

Theory in Action: Realism

Soomo Publishing
Published on May 4, 2011

As part of the "Theory In Action" video series, we interviewed top International Relation theorists and asked them to explain theory using terms we could understand. In this video, Professor Randall Schweller tells us about Realism and the role of power in international relations.
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Fraggle Rock said:
Conservatives let's be clear the fact that you are reading these stories do not make them fact. You will all find this out very soon. The facts remain that 3% of the population owns 50% of the registered guns. The 2nd amendment allows us the right to bear arms not to assemble a armory.
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Evidence?

The Conservatives hate Socialism and Communism yet they allow the POTUS to attack the Judiciary to attack the free press.....which I remind you all is in the CONSTITUTION. You guys are so easy to accept anything that fits in your shadow box of thinking. The only people trying to ruin this country is you!!!!!! It is you that supports this Putin thug and your boy man child.....and you guys thinks Vlad wants to protect Democracy. LOL
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Last I checked, criticizing the press is still protected free speech.
 
FastPace said:
French state TV after the Vegas shooting interviewed some guy they claim is a terrorist expert. I saw the show right after the Vegas attacks, so, I was aware this Eastern looking man that tracks terrorist online in 3 languages had stated it would be unusual or out of the norm for ISIS to take credit for something they didn't do.

ISIS is apparently taking credit on one of their websites. The Russians did not take credit on say a Kremlin website.

I never mentioned this French news episode or the guest that supposedly is a terrorist expert because I was never sure--he does n't even seem sure--how true the ISIS claim is. Plus, from what little of the shooter I know about, he seemed more like a typical secular American "done well" and enjoy Sin City with the gambling thing than an enthusiastic convert to a hardcore sect of Islam.





Fast forward to the 9:30 mark and the guest on the French news show speaks about a possible link (Vegas shooting) to ISIS. Bearing in mind this is French state TV broadcast in English (like German DW news, Russian RT news, Qatari Al Jazzera news) meant to target English speaking audiences/countries such as the USA. (But you won't hear accusations that the French are interfering in US democracy or that they spread the ISIS claim to create division and fighting between Americans etc.)

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Yep, if there is anybody we should believe without question, it is some guy on French TV claiming to be privy to ISIS policy.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Yep, if there is anybody we should believe without question, it is some guy on French TV claiming to be privy to ISIS policy.
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Well... he may know what he is talking about. And he didn't conclude ISIS was responsible on any level. He was making I think 2 points, 1 explicitly and 1 implicitly. The 1 explicit point was that--he said--it would be out of the norm for ISIS to take credit for something they did not do (true or false that was *his* explicit point made). The 1 implicit point I believe he was making was that it then logically follows you can not rule ISIS out as having some involvement.

I have no dog in the fight. So, I don't care if it was ISIS, Pope Francis, Mexican Cartel, White Supremacist, an upset ex-postal worker "Gone Postal," or a guy having homicidal and suicidal side-effects from medication taken through a psychiatric prescription.

My only "dog in the fight" is a real curiosity as to what was behind, motivating, this guy to shoot so many people. I mean it is perplexing given he was so financially well-to-do. Of course, he the well-to-do can have flaws of character or deep sins. But it just seems so far, way far, out of the norm so wealthy of a guy like him would carry out something like this.

The only thing I am pretty sure of in terms of the way humans reason--pleasure vs suffering--is that he reasoned in his mind (if he committed suicide) that whatever comes after death (even if it is nothingness because one ceases to exist period) will result in less suffering than if he lived to face the consequences in this life. Therefore, it neither takes a psychologist or a rocket scientists to figure out he did not fear a worse suffering of the eternal damnation in hell.

(Of course, there are a minority, outliers, that actually do desire to be damned o hell after death as they are straight-out Luciferians or Satanists and want to end up in hell to serve Lucifer. But I'm going to operate under the assumption this Las Vegas shooter was not one of them, but more likely a secular person that just did not believe in the existence of hell. Or he was a "religious" person that believes no one gets sent to hell other than probably Adolf Hitler.)
 
I simply think the story tellers have gone a bridge too far with the ISIS claim. It is simply not credible IMO.
 
ecofarm said:
When a nutbag uses Christianity as an excuse to kill people, do we start quoting the Bible to explain his action? No. People would lose their minds if someone blamed a clinic bombing on Leviticus. But when a nutbag uses Islam as an excuse, suddenly uneducated rednecks are theology and anthropology experts quoting from the Quran to explain the atrocity.
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We don't yet know enough to even put this action on a religious level.
 
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