Anybody else who dislikes both the left and Trump?

Moderate Right said:

I'm not sure it's really sexist. I'm really insulted though when the left says that the right is fighting a war against women (and even conservative women are fighting a war on women) just because they believe in pro-life. By the way, I voted for Kasich in the primary and I wrote him in for president. I didn't want Trump president but the left has been in full resistance mode, including the liberal mainstream media, who constantly criticize Trump non-stop and purposely report anti-Trump, anti-Trump, anti-Trump, looking for every single scrap of anti-Trump they can find. I don't like defending Trump but a lot of the stuff is just plain biased partisan resistance nonsense. If they would quit with the nonsense then I would be more open to criticizing Trump myself but I refuse to give them any fuel to add onto their rabid fire of resistance.

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I agree that the whole “war on women” stuff just because somebody is pro life is false. Pro life is a reasonable view that has legitimate science supporting it. I think Trump is a jerk, a fool, and a horrible president, though yeah the left is absolutely overreacting he’s nowhere near a fascist and America is nowhere near Nazi Germany. He is trying to cozy up to some of the uglier elements of the right though. I’ll give him credit for noticing these elements and exploiting them into a win against all odds. I admit he did have the establishment’s number in 2016 as much I don’t like the man, I am impressed by what he was able to pull off. Trump is stupid in a lot of ways but smart in some other ways. Remember though the tea party people compared Obama to Mao and Stain and said he was a “commie”...c’mon. Obama may have pretty left wing for an American president, but still the man is nowhere near an actual communist. I will say that Obama probably gave too much cover for the left’s uglier elements.

artursk said:

What you really have in politics is four quadrants: Liberal to Conservative on the social axis, Left to Right on the economic axis.
All population is divided across these four quadrants and two parties simply can't cover the whole spectrum. For example, both, Hilary and Sanders are Liberal but one of them is fairly Right on the economic axis, whilst the other one is Left. You can't get both of them at the same time.

But the U.S. is not the only country with this problem. The UK is very similar with the Conservative and Labour party trying to cover a spectrum of opinions but failing.

Two parties cannot cover four fundamentally different schools of thought.

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I partly agree with your assertion that two ideologies (parties) can't possibly cater to the 4 quadrants (we can discuss the partly bit in another thread), however, I have seen first hand the damage a multi-party system with its coalition governments can do to both the social, and economic well-being of a country. So my question is, what is the way out? If, as you suggest, a two party system doesn't work (we have multiple examples of this), while the multi-party system fails as well (and often, with worse consequences)

Anybody else who dislikes both the left and Trump?

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Im a bit more equal opportunity.....not a fan of the left, right, or trump for the most part.

briand515 said:

I agree that the whole “war on women” stuff just because somebody is pro life is false. Pro life is a reasonable view that has legitimate science supporting it. I think Trump is a jerk, a fool, and a horrible president, though yeah the left is absolutely overreacting he’s nowhere near a fascist and America is nowhere near Nazi Germany. He is trying to cozy up to some of the uglier elements of the right though. I’ll give him credit for noticing these elements and exploiting them into a win against all odds. I admit he did have the establishment’s number in 2016 as much I don’t like the man, I am impressed by what he was able to pull off. Trump is stupid in a lot of ways but smart in some other ways. Remember though the tea party people compared Obama to Mao and Stain and said he was a “commie”...c’mon. Obama may have pretty left wing for an American president, but still the man is nowhere near an actual communist. I will say that Obama probably gave too much cover for the left’s uglier elements.

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There was a small faction of those on the right who attacked Obama with completely stupid stuff but I read somewhere that the left's resistance against Trump is at 96%, which is infinitely more than the right wing wackos against Obama.

Northern Light said:

There are liberals and then there are leftists.

There are conservatives and then there are rightists.

Most people use these terms interchangeably in total ignorance.

Antifa are a good example of leftists. The white nationalists and nazis are examples of rightists.

They are extremists, and yes I dislike them as much as I dislike Trump. Trump is not an extremist, he is just an opportunist who takes advantage of extremism to further his politics. He stirs the pot way too much and eggs people on so that the nation will remain divided. I can't respect that.

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I think and feel about the same.

briand515 said:

I'll open this by saying that I've always voted Dem and generally have leaned that way. I am a white man and I do hate racism and sexism, I want us all just to get along.... I'm not a big fan of BLM and all this "if you are a white man you must be racist and sexist" stuff on the left. On the other hand I don't like all this alt right blatantly racist junk I'm seeing on the right....I do think Trump does try to appeal to bigotry on the right. ...I don't really like BLM and their narratives are biased and one sided... The case of the 12 year old Tamir Rice getting shot for having the toy gun was totally unacceptable though... I think a wall is STUPID, and I support letting "Dreamers" stay, but this "undocumented" PC crap for ILLEGAL immigrants is BS... A DACA deal while reforming the immigration laws and tightening the borders, I think is something both sides could get behind. I am centrist and I think that's fair. The thing is I hate the left's identity politics social justice junk and the racist alt right crap I see on the right these days. Honestly both sides are dumb and play into each other IMO. Politics is mess in general these days.

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A few points:

First, I am a conservatarian (classical liberal). In the GOP primary, I could have voted for Cruz, Scott Walker, Carley, or Rubio. I couldn't have voted for Trump, and did not vote for either party nominee in the general election. I have been pretty close to a "never-Trump" supporter, and while my view has slightly softened, I still find him personally and intellectually repugnant.

Second, I have little political respect for all kinds of collectivism. Communism, Socialism, Progressive/Liberalism, fascism, black nationalism, etc. . My political outlook has developed and deepened throughout my lifetime, always based on a systematic body of philosophical concepts that are integrated into political and economic theories that provide a guide to doing the right thing.

Last, I have even less political respect for most (but not all) forms of centrism. Centrism is usually nothing more than than an ad hoc collection of "feelings" - superficial and subjective emotionalism unmoored to any consistent view of political theory. I have no respect for any politics based an assumption that a person's feeling is some form of self-validation.

Centrism is just another term for unintegrated wishy-washy, lukewarm, conflicted, and/or spineless opinions. Centrists rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight between doing right and doing wrong.

In that sense, I respect the thoughtful left far more than "centrists".

print_screen said:

I partly agree with your assertion that two ideologies (parties) can't possibly cater to the 4 quadrants (we can discuss the partly bit in another thread), however, I have seen first hand the damage a multi-party system with its coalition governments can do to both the social, and economic well-being of a country. So my question is, what is the way out? If, as you suggest, a two party system doesn't work (we have multiple examples of this), while the multi-party system fails as well (and often, with worse consequences)

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I will probably create a separate thread for this as it's a very interesting question.