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You don't even understand patriotism...

Fenton Lum said:
It would be a bit more impressive as a guide had it ever set limits on slavery and genocide.
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If i cared In would probably point to some sort of 13th and 14th amendments but I don't this thread has gone beyond the bounds of reason
 
celticwar17 said:
I can not believe you actually think that... This has nothing to do with free speech or freedom to protest.

They are protesting at their JOB!!! And Trump isn't suggesting the government to force the nfl to do something, the government can't do ANYTHING... but the NFL CAN.

A business can fire you for singing the mein kampf in gregorian chant all day at work... a business can fire you for swearing at a customer, arguing with a customer, for yelling for no reason , it can fire you for demonstrating your political opinions at work or anything that you say that they deem harmful to the business.

Putting pressure and being critical on a business's employees conduct and calling for them to do something about it is not against the first amendment.
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It has EVERYTHING to do with free speech and freedom to protest. Your job can no more force you to stand and salute the flag or the anthem than they can force you to pray. You do not lose your basic rights because you are working. If they try to fire you for refusing to partake in a political show, you can sue the holy sh^t out of them and they will not have a foot to stand on.
 
MaggieD said:
You have it all wrong. People are angry that these NFL players are bringing their politics to work and holding millions hostage as they engage in symbolism that many millions find offensive. If you don't understand that and think THEY have the right to be offended, your argument rings quite hollow.
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How many are we holding hostage with private for profit prisons and mass incarceration if they are lucky enough not to be gunned down in the street? Your being inconvenienced is offensive? Man, snowflakes.
 
jdog said:
It has EVERYTHING to do with free speech and freedom to protest. Your job can no more force you to stand and salute the flag or the anthem than they can force you to pray. You do not lose your basic rights because you are working. If they try to fire you for refusing to partake in a political show, you can sue the holy sh^t out of them and they will not have a foot to stand on.
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The "job creator" class sees us as property.
 
Fenton Lum said:
How many are we holding hostage with private for profit prisons and mass incarceration if they are lucky enough not be me gunned down in the street? Your being inconvenienced is offensive? Man, snowflakes.
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Fenton, you are one angry dude. If you don't see the sense in what I posted or have no intelligent response? Don't throw up a strawman. It's just silly. People have just as much right to be offended that teams seem to have decided they'll give their permission for their players to use the football field as their platform. That's America, man!
 
MaggieD said:
Fenton, you are one angry dude. If you don't see the sense in what I posted or have no intelligent response? Don't throw up a strawman. It's just silly. People have just as much right to be offended that teams seem to have decided they'll give their permission for their players to use the football field as their platform. That's America, man!
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You've just wandered so far away from what the protest is actually about, man, carry on now that you've been refocused. It is indeed america.
 
MaggieD said:
You have it all wrong. People are angry that these NFL players are bringing their politics to work and holding millions hostage as they engage in symbolism that many millions find offensive. If you don't understand that and think THEY have the right to be offended, your argument rings quite hollow.
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No, I understand the issue completely. It is the government who pushes politics into sports by pressuring the owners to link their sport to support for the government and the military.

To force a Citizen to act as if they support a government and its policies when they do not, is about as un-American as you can get. What is the difference between being forced to act as if you support the American government or the NKorean government. When you use fear and retribution to force the semblance of patriotism then you have become the tyrants you claim to oppose.
 
Fenton Lum said:
You've just wandered so far away from what the protest is actually about, man, carry on now that you've been refocused. It is indeed america.
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Well the protest was started by a guy just trying to get laid. That may be how all conflict has begun since the beginning of time.
 
MaggieD said:
Good God. Who's filled your head with THAT baloney? Want some mayonnaise?
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You might want to take a real look at the societal wealth redistribution that has occurred over the past half century and how your entire political and economic system is managed by the donor class irrespective of the two party illusion. You're too smart to be unaware, you're just ok with it.
 
jdog said:
How do you respect a symbol of freedom by denying freedom itself?

That is the basic question behind the entire NFL / National anthem idiocy.

We have people who are insisting others be stripped of their right as Citizens to decent and to protest the actions of government because it is disrespectful of a symbol of that right.

I have supported some of the positions of Trump, but this one shows he does not have the slightest understanding of the relationship between government and the Citizens, and brings into question his fitness to hold office.

The fact is that the propaganda that we are subjected to during sporting events has no place in that venue to begin with. It is only there to allow government to claim some sort of legitimacy in its actions despite the fact that much of the public vehemently opposes much of the governments policies.

The real fear is that the rest of the world will see that the American people do not support the policies of government and the government will no longer be able to claim the legitimacy they lost long ago.

The issue we are faced with at present though, is what is it in America that we truly value? Is it the symbols like the anthem, and the flag that are most important? Or is it the actual freedoms those symbols represent and that we suppress on a daily basis?

It seems like we have our priorities badly confused.
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Very well stated. The 1st amendment guarantees our right to protest whenever--whereever we want to as long as it is a peaceful protest. Individually or in a group of people.

Really Trump is a National Disgrace. He incited this with his own words. No other President in this Nation's history personally attacked citizens of this country, or an entity like the NFL & NBA who have always handled their own disgruntled players. Trump has continually done this, attacked John McCain, Ted Cruz, even Boeing Aircraft--(which probably hurt their business) simply because the CEO of that company criticized one of his policies.

He does it for ATTENTION. He is a full blown textbook example of a Naricissist, and no one can control him. Positive or Negative attention does not matter to a Narcissist as long as it's attention.

Two weeks after this blows over and everyone has burned their team gear, he will find something else or person to attack to regain that ATTENTION and to keep his supporters at an elevated level of Hysteria. A very good article on this is here.
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/a-...rder-that-makes-him-a-dangerous-world-leader/

He was always UNFIT to be POTUS.

147318_600.jpg

Yes even the hairdo is for ATTENTION.
 
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MaggieD said:
Good God. Who's filled your head with THAT baloney? Want some mayonnaise?
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Would you like another cup of Kool-Aid dear, you seem to enjoy it.
 
Oreo said:
Very well stated. The 1st amendment guarantees our right to protest whenever--whereever we want to as long as it is a peaceful protest. Individually or in a group of people.

Really Trump is a National Disgrace. He incited this with his own words. No other President in this Nation's history personally attacked citizens of this country, or an entity like the NFL & NBA who have always handled their own disgruntled players. Trump has continually done this, attacked John McCain, Ted Cruz, even Boeing Aircraft--(which probably hurt their business) simply because the CEO of that company critized one of his policies.

He does it for ATTENTION. He is a full blown textbook example of a Naricissist, and no one can control him. Two weeks after this blows over and everyone has burned their team gear, he will find something else or person to attack to regain that ATTENTION and to keep his supporters at an elevated level of Hysteria. A very good article on this is here.
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/a-...rder-that-makes-him-a-dangerous-world-leader/

He was always UNFIT to be POTUS.

147318_600.jpg
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The problem goes much deeper than just Trump. Trump did not pass the Patriot Act, he did not shoot down a thousand Citizens last year, and he is not the one stealing the property of Citizens and calling it asset forfeiture.
The issue is the Citizens themselves and their failure to do their patriotic duty to defend their own rights and freedoms. As a people, we have become weak and cowardly.
 
Fenton Lum said:
No one needs to run him down, he takes care of it. Blindly following a broken political and economic system leads to no better options regardless of who the donor class selects to run. Goldman Sachs is always in your white house.
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The political system has been broken all or most of my life, and I am getting long in the tooth, but see America has not cared.

The economic system has been broken nearly as long and no one has cared,

The medical system since what early 70's..no one cared

Education system...broken pretty much for ever.

And worst, the justice system has been too.

Without sound law we have nothing.

The caring about right is missing.

It has been missing.

Truth is not wanted.

SAD

tissue.gif
 
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jdog said:
How do you respect a symbol of freedom by denying freedom itself?

That is the basic question behind the entire NFL / National anthem idiocy.

We have people who are insisting others be stripped of their right as Citizens to decent and to protest the actions of government because it is disrespectful of a symbol of that right.

I have supported some of the positions of Trump, but this one shows he does not have the slightest understanding of the relationship between government and the Citizens, and brings into question his fitness to hold office.

The fact is that the propaganda that we are subjected to during sporting events has no place in that venue to begin with. It is only there to allow government to claim some sort of legitimacy in its actions despite the fact that much of the public vehemently opposes much of the governments policies.

The real fear is that the rest of the world will see that the American people do not support the policies of government and the government will no longer be able to claim the legitimacy they lost long ago.

The issue we are faced with at present though, is what is it in America that we truly value? Is it the symbols like the anthem, and the flag that are most important? Or is it the actual freedoms those symbols represent and that we suppress on a daily basis?

It seems like we have our priorities badly confused.
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The Star Spangled Banner first was introduced, played, sung in baseball back during WWI. The idea was to show patriotic support for our troops in France. It was sung during the seventh inning stretch back then. The Star Spangled Banner wasn't our national anthem either. Making it our national anthem didn't take place until 1931. It was just another patriotic song much like America the Beautiful today. I see no need to open every sporting even by playing the anthem. It's probably a tradition that should be done away with.

I don't think the younger generations have the respect of country that us older folks do. But that may be because we old folks questioned little that it did, today the younger ones question everything. I don't think one's needs to wear a flag pin or fly a flag to be patriotic either. The way I see and hear about what went on Sunday, it was the NFL counter attacking Trump. It wasn't about injustice, it was how dare someone attack the NFL. Everything got carried to the extremes last Sunday. Way past the point of reason. I wish Trump had just kept his big mouth shut. I wish the players would realize they live in a country that allows them to make millions playing a sport. I think this country has been pretty good to them.

I also think they have every right to protest the comments made by trump. I think they are doing so in a wrong way, but I'm unsure if Trump didn't give the NFL players much of a choice in protesting the way they did with his comments. Sure would be nice if Trump and the NFL take their feud to some other venue outside of the football stadium.

Maybe Trump has meet his match, maybe not. But a protest against social injustice has been thrown out the window onto the trash heap of history as of last Sunday. This has turned into a pro trump vs. anti trump feud with football fans caught in the middle.
 
jdog said:
How do you respect a symbol of freedom by denying freedom itself?

That is the basic question behind the entire NFL / National anthem idiocy.

We have people who are insisting others be stripped of their right as Citizens to decent and to protest the actions of government because it is disrespectful of a symbol of that right.

I have supported some of the positions of Trump, but this one shows he does not have the slightest understanding of the relationship between government and the Citizens, and brings into question his fitness to hold office.

The fact is that the propaganda that we are subjected to during sporting events has no place in that venue to begin with. It is only there to allow government to claim some sort of legitimacy in its actions despite the fact that much of the public vehemently opposes much of the governments policies.

The real fear is that the rest of the world will see that the American people do not support the policies of government and the government will no longer be able to claim the legitimacy they lost long ago.

The issue we are faced with at present though, is what is it in America that we truly value? Is it the symbols like the anthem, and the flag that are most important? Or is it the actual freedoms those symbols represent and that we suppress on a daily basis?

It seems like we have our priorities badly confused.
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Moreover, the absurdity of it is shocking. During the Civil War a huge chunk of the country turned their back on America because they were pissed off about losing their slaves. That's how much they loved America. But they were White. They have the privilege to decent without being vilified. We have statues still erected to these unpatriotic traitors. Trump defended those statues. They are our history. It's OK because they were White.

Oh, and the veterans? Trump said that POWs were not heroes. He said that regarding McCain. Yet this draft dodging clown is Mr. Patriot now.

WTF?
 
Perotista said:
The Star Spangled Banner first was introduced, played, sung in baseball back during WWI. The idea was to show patriotic support for our troops in France. It was sung during the seventh inning stretch back then. The Star Spangled Banner wasn't our national anthem either. Making it our national anthem didn't take place until 1931. It was just another patriotic song much like America the Beautiful today. I see no need to open every sporting even by playing the anthem. It's probably a tradition that should be done away with.

I don't think the younger generations have the respect of country that us older folks do. But that may be because we old folks questioned little that it did, today the younger ones question everything. I don't think one's needs to wear a flag pin or fly a flag to be patriotic either. The way I see and hear about what went on Sunday, it was the NFL counter attacking Trump. It wasn't about injustice, it was how dare someone attack the NFL. Everything got carried to the extremes last Sunday. Way past the point of reason. I wish Trump had just kept his big mouth shut. I wish the players would realize they live in a country that allows them to make millions playing a sport. I think this country has been pretty good to them.

I also think they have every right to protest the comments made by trump. I think they are doing so in a wrong way, but I'm unsure if Trump didn't give the NFL players much of a choice in protesting the way they did with his comments. Sure would be nice if Trump and the NFL take their feud to some other venue outside of the football stadium.

Maybe Trump has meet his match, maybe not. But a protest against social injustice has been thrown out the window onto the trash heap of history as of last Sunday. This has turned into a pro trump vs. anti trump feud with football fans caught in the middle.
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Today, the government actually pays sports teams for their artificial support of government.... https://townhall.com/tipsheet/timothymeads/2017/09/24/draft-n2385792

Is that pathetic or what? Your tax money is being given to rich bastards in the professional sports community who are way over paid to begin with to put on a show that they support a corrupt government in hopes it will influence the idiot masses to go along....
 
Crovax said:
Pointing out the limits constitution make me a "traitor" :roll:
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Do you know what the limits of the Constitution are?
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Moreover, the absurdity of it is shocking. During the Civil War a huge chunk of the country turned their back on America because they were pissed off about losing their slaves. That's how much they loved America. But they were White. They have the privilege to decent without being vilified. We have statues still erected to these unpatriotic traitors. Trump defended those statues. They are our history. It's OK because they were White.

Oh, and the veterans? Trump said that POWs were not heroes. He said that regarding McCain. Yet this draft dodging clown is Mr. Patriot now.

WTF?
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Actually, the right to self determination is clearly outlined as a fundamental human right in the Declaration of Independence. The South was well within its rights. And if you really think the War of Aggression against the South was fought over the South being pro slavery and the North being against slavery, then you need to study and explain the Corwin Amendment passed by the 36th Congress on March 2, 1861, Of course you will not be able to....
 
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