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Which amendment should be abridged?

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independentusa

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I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
 
They are already working the Civil Rights Amendment until it's no more ... after all, Racism Ended once Trump was Elected.
 
Where has anyone said anything about laws being made against someone kneeling? From what I have seen people respect his right to do so, they just see it as disrespectful.
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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Who exactly is saying this?
 
Nap said:
Where has anyone said anything about laws being made against someone kneeling? From what I have seen people respect his right to do so, they just see it as disrespectful.
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Apparently if you dont agree with how someone uses their rights then it means you want to take away their rights....
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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Can you name a few prominent conservatives that have actually proposed such (bolded above) laws?


Note: Suggesting an NFL rule change is not a violation of any right or using government force to do so.
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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Why fix it? It works.
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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I find it interesting that people can make up things like this.
 
Cigar said:
They are already working the Civil Rights Amendment until it's no more ... after all, Racism Ended once Trump was Elected.
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Well, while I don't think that changing the Constitution, I have also always thought making civil rights for groups and minority granting them equality to humans rather racist id est sexist.
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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Infringed..the word is infringed.

...advance stealthily, aggress, arrogate, breach, break, break bounds, break in upon, break into, commit a breach, impinge, impose, infract, interfere, interlope, invade, meddle, overstep, seize wronggully, take liberties, transgress, trespass, use wrongfully, usurp, violate, violate a contract, violate a law, violate a privilege, violate a regulation.
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Infringe legal definition of infringe

It is inviolable; essentially not to go anywhere near messing with it.

It is important to note that the idea it is an individual right rather than one tied to the militia comes from where this operative word appears, i.e. "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." :coffeepap:
 
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independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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The kneeling has nothing to do with free speech...

this is among the most idiotic narratives I've heard coming out of this issue.

No one, that I know, is saying that the government should come in and arrest the nfl players or force the companies to fire them... absolutely zero people have I heard that opinion.

The companies themselves can fire them all they want... You can't just do or say anything while you are on the job and expect to not be fired for it.
If you are a barista at Starbucks and you are chanting the entire mein kampf in Gregorian chant all day... you can get fired. It's not your freedom of speech to not be fired... it's your freedom of speech for the government to not do anything to you.

While at work, you have to conform to the guidelines of the business and if you do not like those guidelines... you can quit. The NFL has a choice whether to give these players fines or to fire them... many in the public is trying to put pressure on the nfl to do something, because actually it IS in the guidelines and players contract to stand for the national anthem facing the flag and right hand over the chest.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with freedom of speech.
What players do outside of the NFL is completely their business, but at work, they are representing the NFL and their teams... not themselves.
 
If teams or the NFL find that these "protests" have a negative impact on revenues then we'll see changes.
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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Where do you get this stuff?

I think I've heard 2nd Amendment supporters talking about "infringed", since that's the word used in the amendment. I don't think I heard anyone mention "abridge".

I also don't think I've heard anyone talk about passing laws about when people can kneel. I HAVE heard people talking about boycotting football games if people kneel during the National Anthem.

Do you have quotes from people...politicians, maybe...to support your claims? Or are you just making **** up?
 
Captain Adverse said:
Infringed..the word is infringed.

Infringe legal definition of infringe

It is inviolable; essentially not to go anywhere near messing with it.

It is important to note that the idea it is an individual right rather than one tied to the militia comes from where this operative word appears, i.e. "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." :coffeepap:
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Actually in the First Amendment, the word is abridge. Which seems like a different hill to climb than "infringe" which is the language of the Second.

Abriging, or limiting, takes a lot less than infringing, or breaking.
 
The Constitution is a document that says what the GOVERNMENT cannot do. It does not limit Citizens. The whole premise of this thread is bunk.

A new law to limit the kneeling would be struck down for violating the Constitution. It's also irrelevant for the government to get involved because the NFL is a private institution and if they made it their policy that all players kneel or stand, the government can't say boo about it.
 
Before the SCOTUS ruled it was unconstitutional, there were laws making flag burning or anything like that against the law. And Trump tells the NFL to make a rule saying that the players have to stand for the Anthem. And I think that someone getting shot by a gun a lot more troubling than someone kneeling during the anthem. Especially if the person doing the shooting shouldn't have a gun because they are emotionally unstable as with many of the shootings in this country.
 
Lutherf said:
If teams or the NFL find that these "protests" have a negative impact on revenues then we'll see changes.
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Have you ever heard of a ship called the Titanic? The NFL is on it. They have already hit the iceberg and they don't have enough life boats to save everyone, only a certain number can be saved. There is no time machine to go backwards in time to correct what went wrong.
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
Click to expand...

Looks like a straw man argument to me-I haven't seen anyone calling for the federal government to prevent football players from kneeling.
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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Three amendments, in particular, are in serious need of clarification to make them more appropriate and more in touch with the times.

1st Amedment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of the press. The right of the people peaceably to assemble and disseminate speech that is not hateful or threatening and is not ideologically opposed to the founding principles of the nation's government shall not be infringed unless it is specifically designed to further the historical oppression of marginalized groups. The right of marginalized and oppressed peoples to petition the Government for a redress of grievances shall not be infringed.

2nd Amendment:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the military and law enforcement to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The right of private citizens to own firearms designated by the appropriate governmental agencies to be suitable for antique and/or sporting purposes only shall not be infringed so long as said firearms are legally petitioned for, licensed with, and registered with the proper governmental authorities.

4th Amendment:
The right of people who are not documented as having an association with a hateful, discriminatory group or a group that is in ideological opposition to the founding principles of the nation's government to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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When you put the symbols of freedom above the freedoms themselves then your sense of values is all ass backwards....
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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The flag is and the national anthem are symbols from which we have amendment rights like freedom of speech. Without The United States Constitution football players nor anyone else would be able to say whatever they want...unless you go to college, for example, where you don't have first amendment rights, there, either. Trump not good? AntiFA - anti First Amendment good? Hum?
 
independentusa said:
I find it interesting that many conservatives say we should not pass any gun control laws since the 2nd Amendment says that the right can't be abridged. Many of these same conservatives are now saying that we should pass laws or rules to limit the right of citizens to kneel during the playing of the national anthem, thus abridging the peoples right to Freedom of Speech. I guess they feel that it is okay to abridge the rights under the 1st Amendment, but not the second. Both Amendments say the right can't be abridged, buy haey, what does that matter when someone is doing something you don't agree with.
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Free speech only applies to government not the private sector.
 
To anybody that would complain about any limitation whatsoever on any amendment in the Bill of Rights, I have this to say. You know, some people live in a country where they don't get any rights at all. Maybe you should be grateful for the rights you do get. Perhaps making people go without their rights for a while would wake them up and they would learn to be grateful.
 
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