• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Truth About Police Violence Against Black Men-Facts are stubborn things

Review the Tamir Rice tape. There's a problem.

You mean the video where the kid had a gun? In a park. What? You want officers to wait till they get shot at first right?

Look. There are reasonable requests and there are unreasonable requests. And 99% of the time...the people like you demanding action from the police...don't understand what you are asking. Have you watched the police shoot and don't shoot scenarios? They are not as simple as you make it out to be.
 
The reality, Lemoine declares, is that a random black male is “overwhelmingly unlikely” to be the victim of police violence, and any disparity that does exist between the violence blacks and whites experience in their encounter with cops “is consistent with the racial gap in violent crime, suggesting that the role of racial bias is small.”

According to the Washington Post, just 16 unarmed black men out of a population of more than 20 million were killed by the police in 2016 – down from 36 the year before. These figures are numerically comparable to the number of black men that could be struck by lightning in any given year, Lemoine calculates, and they include cases in which the shooting was justified, even if the person killed was unarmed.

“Police killings of black unarmed males are incredibly rare, and it’s completely misleading to talk about an ‘epidemic of them,” he writes, pointing out that the left makes a similar comparison “when they argue that it’s completely irrational to fear that you might become a victim of terrorism.”

It’s not even true that black men are beaten on a regular basis by the police, or even pulled over constantly without reason. Using data from the Police-Public Contact Survey, based on a nationally representative sample of more than 70,000 U.S. residents age 16 or older, Lemoine notes that “black men are less likely than white men to have contact with the police in any given year.” Only 1.5 percent of black men have more than three contacts with the police in any given year, he points out – only marginally more than the 1.2 percent of white men who do.

The Truth About Police Violence Against Black Men | Frontpage Mag


I know of 5 Dallas police officers killed at a BLM protest march. The police are killed for no reason other than hate far more than I have seen blacks unjustifiably killed by police.




View attachment 67223179

... and exactly how long have you been Black?
 
ANOTHER PARTISAN POOP THREAD BY A KNOWN RIGHT WING NUT​

[Sigh! For you relatively new to DP, you may want to take note of some of the more extreme partisan posters who choose to start numerous threads just about every day.

A quick check of the link in the OP reveals it as a known extreme RIGHT WING NUT source:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/frontpage-magazine/

If you like RWNs, you'd probably like the French guy quoted in the OP.

Cheers!

You sourcing a web site funded by George Soros (A real Nazi Collaborator) to call another web site bias is the ultimate stupidity.
 
I agree BLM is statistically unsound. But so too is Right Wing Whites jumping up and down about coal mining jobs. Stupid or not, both idiots have that right.

The point is we can phase in clean energy jobs while coal mining jobs meet their slow demise. Obama, Hillary & Co were purposely trying to kill coal jobs without them just naturally fading out on their own.
 
If you really want to slam his post...you really need to post numbers. How many blacks are killed by police? How many whites? We can extrapolate a lot from there.

Whatever blackjack.... (insert my LOL about now)... paraphrasing the expression "opinions and rectum holes.... just about everybody has one".

Using a few of my prior quotes as examples, I have a history of slamming his posts. Do you disagree he tends to have an extreme RWN perspective? I feel compelled and enjoy warning the unsuspecting readers. Peace to you and yours!
Some posters start Partisan Poop Threads just about every day... like volsrock/(RW), LowDown/(RW) and Vetplus40/(LW). Some do it occasionally, like James972/(RW), Casca XV/(RW) AND I include myself/(LW).

When I do it, I usually do it as a farce... like stating Trump scared the poop out of Raul Castro.

This thread, begun by a known Poop Stirrer, has Loaded Words in it's thread title and the OP includes a highly slanted source.

CONCLUSION: another Partisan Poop Thread by volsrock that reeks!

MORE LOW BROW TRIPE BY DPs #1 PURVEYOR OF PARTISAN POOP. IN THIS THREAD VOLSROCK PROVIDES SUPPORTING DATA USING THE CATO INSTITUTE AS SOURCE. THE KOCH BROS CREATED AND CONTROL THE CATO INSTITUTE. IRONICALLY, VOLSROCK MAY HAVE MORE IN COMMON WITH THE STAR OF THE VIDEO THAN ANY OF YOU READING THIS POST.

Please note the "Media Bias Rating" for Resistance Media -

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/resistance-media/

This OP has a distinct RWN odor reminisent of "Project Veritas" and James O'Keefe.
 
Whatever blackjack.... (insert my LOL about now)... paraphrasing the expression "opinions and rectum holes.... just about everybody has one".

Using a few of my prior quotes as examples, I have a history of slamming his posts. Do you disagree he tends to have an extreme RWN perspective? I feel compelled and enjoy warning the unsuspecting readers. Peace to you and yours!

What I see here is you trying to escape providing numbers. Why do you not want to provide numbers? I am guessing you would be rushing to post these if you had them...I certainly would be. I guess you just don't have them. Which is odd. If this is such a systemic problem. It would be well documented. Why is this not?
 
Trippy Trekker,

You have made no argument at all about the premise of the OP.

If we're intellectually honest, it's legitimate to use a perception of bias as a prompt to look more closely at the logic and supporting 'facts' of an argument. It would be crazy to ignore a history of poor logic and low quality information from a source when evaluating its argument.

However, a perception of bias is not a justification for dismissing something out of hand. If you want to claim that the argument is false, you have to show where the data and logic it uses fall down.
 
What I see here is you trying to escape providing numbers. Why do you not want to provide numbers? I am guessing you would be rushing to post these if you had them...I certainly would be. I guess you just don't have them. Which is odd. If this is such a systemic problem. It would be well documented. Why is this not?

Escape what? Persuading you or others that Black Lives Really Do Matter? So I take it you do not feel the creator of the OP has an extremely RWN perspective. Good to know more clearly now where to lump you.
 
Trippy Trekker,

You have made no argument at all about the premise of the OP.

If we're intellectually honest, it's legitimate to use a perception of bias as a prompt to look more closely at the logic and supporting 'facts' of an argument. It would be crazy to ignore a history of poor logic and low quality information from a source when evaluating its argument.

However, a perception of bias is not a justification for dismissing something out of hand. If you want to claim that the argument is false, you have to show where the data and logic it uses fall down.

You may have missed the parable growing up about the kid that kept crying "Wolf!" Cutting to the chase, I believe Black Lives Matter. Do you?
 
You may have missed the parable growing up about the kid that kept crying "Wolf!" Cutting to the chase, I believe Black Lives Matter. Do you?

You are aware that you are changing the subject, aren't you? But I'll indulge you.

The simple statement "black lives matter" is something that no sane person could disagree with.

Agreeing with that, however, is not at all the same as agreeing that there is a significant trend toward much harsher treatment of black people by police. It may be true, but establishing it as a fact requires relevant statistics, used properly.
 
You may have missed the parable growing up about the kid that kept crying "Wolf!"...

No, I didn't miss it. As I recall, the story ends with the boy being eaten by a real wolf that the villagers assumed didn't exist. Clearly, they were wrong.
 
Post #2 didn't once mention police violence against blacks. So how could it convey related data?

Just because a source may be biased does not mean that the info in that source is not accurate. So long as the numbers are backed up by valid science then the source doesn't matter. Or at least it shouldn't.

You fail to recognize that this isn't about facts. It's about appearances. If someone can convince a population that they are oppressed and mistreated then they can fill the role of "savior" for that population. They can hold power over that population. They can extract resources from that population. Such is the nature of politics.

240 years ago a bunch of guys established a plan to rein in the self serving nature of politics and place those political powers back into the hands of the common man. Well, over the years some men have found that independence takes a lot of work and that the results are sometimes imperfect. Because of those inconsistencies they have chosen the soft tyranny of guaranteed outcomes over the potential for great opportunity.
 
Escape what? Persuading you or others that Black Lives Really Do Matter? So I take it you do not feel the creator of the OP has an extremely RWN perspective. Good to know more clearly now where to lump you.

This is all a side track. You want to accuse me of thinking "black lives don't matter." Why? Because I asked if you could provide numbers. And you are scared to do so. You really think you need to educate me on the value of human life? Dude. I don't care what skin color you have. All that matters to me is if you are a good and respectful person. Hell...my girlfriend isn't even white. My best friend and the guy I will ask to be my best man...isn't white. My friends form Brazilian Jiu Jitsu...about half and half white and other races.

What I'm asking you to do...is provide me numbers of shootings of blacks vs whites. Why? Because the police will shoot people. You can't make that not happen. And so we need to know if there is actually a racial problem...or...as the Op suggested...is there not a problem based on numbers. If a right wing or left wing hack news site puts up 2+2 is 4...are you going to deny that as well? No. You will show the math. Why won't you now? You think you don't need to back up your claims? Or can you just not find the numbers?

See. If you backed your argument up...I would look at it. And I could decide if maybe there is a problem...or decide if maybe we need to look at each individual case...or if there is a general police training problem? Or is there an educational issue where kids don't learn to not be criminal thugs? One thing we do know is that poor whites and blacks often find themselves in trouble with the law. Which would allow us to draw some conclusions. But you don't seem to want to provide numbers for your preconceived notions (because at this point I doubt you have forumsted that opinion on anything other than what the left has told you...not what you have learned...which is ironic with your complaints.)
 
I agree BLM is statistically unsound. But so too is Right Wing Whites jumping up and down about coal mining jobs. Stupid or not, both idiots have that right.

Thank you for the link. I agree that the impetus behind the BLM Movement, IMO like most Movements, relies on grossly inaccurate perceptions. Nonetheless, concluding Black Lives Do Not Matter... that "BLM is just flat-out wrong" minimizes disparate treatment of Blacks by LE.

You are aware that you are changing the subject, aren't you? But I'll indulge you.

The simple statement "black lives matter" is something that no sane person could disagree with.

Agreeing with that, however, is not at all the same as agreeing that there is a significant trend toward much harsher treatment of black people by police. It may be true, but establishing it as a fact requires relevant statistics, used properly.

I admit to responding in knee-jerk fashion to some of the DP posters. I agree with Calamity's post #11. I also conceded in post #18 that BLM relies on misperception (this would include promoting a narrative without factual statistical evidence). I believe, without compelling evidence beyond my life experiences and recollections (age 61... and as a Brown-skinned male), LE in general tends to treat Blacks more harshly.
 
The reality, Lemoine declares, is that a random black male is “overwhelmingly unlikely” to be the victim of police violence, and any disparity that does exist between the violence blacks and whites experience in their encounter with cops “is consistent with the racial gap in violent crime, suggesting that the role of racial bias is small.”

According to the Washington Post, just 16 unarmed black men out of a population of more than 20 million were killed by the police in 2016 – down from 36 the year before. These figures are numerically comparable to the number of black men that could be struck by lightning in any given year, Lemoine calculates, and they include cases in which the shooting was justified, even if the person killed was unarmed.

“Police killings of black unarmed males are incredibly rare, and it’s completely misleading to talk about an ‘epidemic of them,” he writes, pointing out that the left makes a similar comparison “when they argue that it’s completely irrational to fear that you might become a victim of terrorism.”

It’s not even true that black men are beaten on a regular basis by the police, or even pulled over constantly without reason. Using data from the Police-Public Contact Survey, based on a nationally representative sample of more than 70,000 U.S. residents age 16 or older, Lemoine notes that “black men are less likely than white men to have contact with the police in any given year.” Only 1.5 percent of black men have more than three contacts with the police in any given year, he points out – only marginally more than the 1.2 percent of white men who do.

The Truth About Police Violence Against Black Men | Frontpage Mag


I know of 5 Dallas police officers killed at a BLM protest march. The police are killed for no reason other than hate far more than I have seen blacks unjustifiably killed by police.




View attachment 67223179

Facts like African-American culture is anti-police, anti-family, anti-education and pro-drugs, for examples, are also stubborn facts. If the police are racist, why don't they harass renowned African-Americans SCOTUS Clarence Thomas or Trump HUD director Ben Carson? Huh?
 
This is all a side track. You want to accuse me of thinking "black lives don't matter." Why? Because I asked if you could provide numbers. And you are scared to do so. You really think you need to educate me on the value of human life? Dude. I don't care what skin color you have. All that matters to me is if you are a good and respectful person. Hell...my girlfriend isn't even white. My best friend and the guy I will ask to be my best man...isn't white. My friends form Brazilian Jiu Jitsu...about half and half white and other races.

What I'm asking you to do...is provide me numbers of shootings of blacks vs whites. Why? Because the police will shoot people. You can't make that not happen. And so we need to know if there is actually a racial problem...or...as the Op suggested...is there not a problem based on numbers. If a right wing or left wing hack news site puts up 2+2 is 4...are you going to deny that as well? No. You will show the math. Why won't you now? You think you don't need to back up your claims? Or can you just not find the numbers?

See. If you backed your argument up...I would look at it. And I could decide if maybe there is a problem...or decide if maybe we need to look at each individual case...or if there is a general police training problem? Or is there an educational issue where kids don't learn to not be criminal thugs? One thing we do know is that poor whites and blacks often find themselves in trouble with the law. Which would allow us to draw some conclusions. But you don't seem to want to provide numbers for your preconceived notions (because at this point I doubt you have forumsted that opinion on anything other than what the left has told you...not what you have learned...which is ironic with your complaints.)

Your verbosity, for me, borders on obfuscation. Re: How you treat other humans - I appreciate your color-blindness. In that respect, we have something to seize and agree upon.

You continue to promote the notion of my being too scared to provide data as evidence. Do you mean this as humor? All grins! I believe racial issues continue to have relevant significance today in the United States. Dred Scott, Plessy v. Ferguson, Brown v. Topeka Kansas Board of Education, Jim Crow Laws in the 1880s, The Civil Rights Acts of 1866, 1964, 1968... and countless other verifiable events add impetus to my beliefs.

Again, most important to me, you and I appear to have disdain for discrimination based on race and/or skin color. Progress... even if not perfection! Peace to you and yours!
 
Thank you for the link. I agree that the impetus behind the BLM Movement, IMO like most Movements, relies on grossly inaccurate perceptions. Nonetheless, concluding Black Lives Do Not Matter... that "BLM is just flat-out wrong" minimizes disparate treatment of Blacks by LE.

We have to stand up for equal treatment for all -- that's true, and we should demand that our law enforcement officer be better trained in stopping and de-escalating tense situations.
 
Your verbosity, for me, borders on obfuscation. Re: How you treat other humans - I appreciate your color-blindness. In that respect, we have something to seize and agree upon.

You continue to promote the notion of my being too scared to provide data as evidence. Do you mean this as humor? All grins! I believe racial issues continue to have relevant significance today in the United States. Dred Scott, Plessy v. Ferguson, Brown v. Topeka Kansas Board of Education, Jim Crow Laws in the 1880s, The Civil Rights Acts of 1866, 1964, 1968... and countless other verifiable events add impetus to my beliefs.

Again, most important to me, you and I appear to have disdain for discrimination based on race and/or skin color. Progress... even if not perfection! Peace to you and yours!

I am asking you to provide numbers because it is required to counter the OP. Unfortunately, as I said, police will shoot people. And unfortunately...that number is not always going to be a perfect ratio of whites to blacks that matches the population. A small county may have 5 shootings and 3 of the incidents involved black people. Is that a problem? A racial problem? I mean without number we can't even begin to decide if this is an issue because all we get are sparse news reports on a case to case basis.
 
I am asking you to provide numbers because it is required to counter the OP. Unfortunately, as I said, police will shoot people. And unfortunately...that number is not always going to be a perfect ratio of whites to blacks that matches the population. A small county may have 5 shootings and 3 of the incidents involved black people. Is that a problem? A racial problem? I mean without number we can't even begin to decide if this is an issue because all we get are sparse news reports on a case to case basis.

In today's world we can easily perpetuate our pre-conceived notions by steering ourselves into a Filter Bubble. I don't consider myself immune to this process. I probably subconsiously steer my research to support my personal biases. Nothing in the Forum Rules requires me to provide numbers to counter the OP.

I already feel you and I found some important common ground. With regard to race, we steer toward color-blindness. We both list Florida as home. I'd guess myself as double digits older than you. This alone would create markedly different perspectives. I sure have my differences with my dad (in spite of considering him one of my heroes).

As for data/numbers, we can pull that up ad nauseum - Case in Point:

4 sources- An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences; Police Violence Against Black Men is Rare; Policing in Black & White; Study Supports Suspicion That Police Are More Likely to Use Force....

https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/workshop/leo/leo16_fryer.pdf
Police Violence against Black Men Is Rare: Here?s What the Data Actually Say | National Review
Policing in black & white
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/...-force-is-more-likely-for-blacks.html?mcubz=3

Again, peace to you and yours!
 
Back
Top Bottom