• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Irony of Christian Flag Worship

fmw said:
We can do both.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but I still consider dictating to each other how we go about our personal rituals is silly.
 
Geoist said:
The very fact that you are getting so passionately defensive about the issue just proves my point.
Click to expand...

In what way exactly? Be specific and detailed.
 
Geoist said:
Nations are worldly things. There have been thousands of them throughout history. Christians should not be focused on revering something that is worldly and fated to end.
Click to expand...

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."
 
Geoist said:
Maybe people need to worry less about how we 'respect' an ideal and focus more on respecting each other.
Click to expand...

Is this satire, or are you truly that oblivious?
 
Geoist said:
This post is not to paint a broad brush of all Christians. I, myself, am a Christian who does not get the flag worship. There are denominations of Christians who don't get it, either (e.g. Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses). Some of my Christian friends and family have become more aware of it being idolatry, as well. But there is no doubt there are an overwhelming number of Christians in this nation who are the most vocal about "respecting the flag" and reciting the pledge as if this country were some god. They will deny it up and down, but how is it any different than a teenager idolizing a pop star? Or a kid idolizing a sports team/player? Christians call that idolatry, but they often fail to see the plank in their own eyes when it comes to nationalism. To me, it seems Christians should be less about worldly kingdoms.
Click to expand...

I'm an atheist and I get it.
 
countryboy said:
In what way exactly? Be specific and detailed.
Click to expand...

Declaring that my view is "utterly clueless" or that I am intentionally spreading "disinformation" while dismissing my view as "out of hand" is a sign that you are being passionately defensive. Perhaps instead of asking me for specifics you should give some of your own to support your claim.
 
WCH said:
Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."
Click to expand...

There are many interpretations of that text. When you look at it in its context it is clear that Jesus is dismissing the question given to him saying it was not in his interest to intervene in political issues.

Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."
Click to expand...

This passage leaves people like you in a more difficult spiritual/philosophical position than it does for me. My position on this passage is that we are all indeed subjects to governments, and that, indeed, God allows them to rule even if 'reluctantly' (see 1 Samuel 8).

If I were to take your position on this passage then it would mean I would have to support my leader even if I lived under a dictatorship/tyranny. Do you believe Christians should support evildoers just because they hold political power on the territory in which you reside? Should they look the other way when they commit genocide and declare, "It is God's Will?"
 
Geoist said:
Fair enough, but I still consider dictating to each other how we go about our personal rituals is silly.
Click to expand...

Then it would be appropriate for you to ignore it.
 
Geoist said:
There were a lot of atheists running the USSR. They were pretty idolatrous towards their state, as well.
Click to expand...

If so, then that kind of dilutes your point that Christians are worshiping idols. If, in reality, any old Joe respects a symbol of strength and sacrifice, your attack on Christians is moot.
 
Geoist said:
There are many interpretations of that text. When you look at it in its context it is clear that Jesus is dismissing the question given to him saying it was not in his interest to intervene in political issues.



This passage leaves people like you in a more difficult spiritual/philosophical position than it does for me. My position on this passage is that we are all indeed subjects to governments, and that, indeed, God allows them to rule even if 'reluctantly' (see 1 Samuel 8).

If I were to take your position on this passage then it would mean I would have to support my leader even if I lived under a dictatorship/tyranny. Do you believe Christians should support evildoers just because they hold political power on the territory in which you reside? Should they look the other way when they commit genocide and declare, "It is God's Will?"
Click to expand...

We're not the Romans. There are checks and balances for our system of government.

No one I know worships the flag but, I've heard rumors that that will be the Left's next target.

You firing the first shot while throwing in Christians for good measure?
 
HowardBThiname said:
If so, then that kind of dilutes your point that Christians are worshiping idols. If, in reality, any old Joe respects a symbol of strength and sacrifice, your attack on Christians is moot.
Click to expand...

How is it moot? Anyone can idolize an object or ideal. It doesn't matter their background. I am focusing on Christians, here, because they have always been particularly outspoken about the dangers of idols.
 
WCH said:
We're not the Romans. There are checks and balances for our system of government.
Click to expand...

Having a better worldly system does not excuse idolatry.

No one I know worships the flag
Click to expand...

Idolatry does not need to involve prayer or shrines. It only requires zealotry and that is what is expressed by the Christian nationalists.
 
Geoist said:
Having a better worldly system does not excuse idolatry.



Idolatry does not need to involve prayer or shrines. It only requires zealotry and that is what is expressed by the Christian nationalists.
Click to expand...

Reverence and respect does not equate to idolatry.

Just admit you hate the idea behind the flag....America
 
Last edited:
Putting the iron in irony

WCH said:
Reverence and respect does not equate to idolatry.

Just admit you hate the idea behind the flag....America
Click to expand...

Or @ least the US - which is what is usually meant by America. It may seem like just a quibble, but we get a lot of errors in debate simply because someone glosses over the content of language by reverting to tired old phrases. Yes, the content of the phrase United States was formidable - even if it was more aspirational than anything else in the beginning - when women, indentured servants, slaves, Native Peoples, non-WASPish men of wealth could not vote, could not be elected, & were hardly noticed in the documents & history of the time. With history - & blood, sweat & tears - we've fixed a lot of the problems. We've also incurred new ones, of course, & unexpected outbreaks of old problems in new places or circumstances - that's life for you.
 
Re: Putting the iron in irony

southwest88 said:
Or @ least the US - which is what is usually meant by America. It may seem like just a quibble, but we get a lot of errors in debate simply because someone glosses over the content of language by reverting to tired old phrases. Yes, the content of the phrase United States was formidable - even if it was more aspirational than anything else in the beginning - when women, indentured servants, slaves, Native Peoples, non-WASPish men of wealth could not vote, could not be elected, & were hardly noticed in the documents & history of the time. With history - & blood, sweat & tears - we've fixed a lot of the problems. We've also incurred new ones, of course, & unexpected outbreaks of old problems in new places or circumstances - that's life for you.
Click to expand...

I see this thread as just a continuation of the quest to fundamentally change this country....going directly after the fundamentals.... The Constitution, the pledge, the flag etc..oh Christians and Whites.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom