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Baby Boomers’ votes replaced by illegal immigrant votes

I can understand. My argument is based on facts. That other guy's argument (about whites being illegal immigrants) is wrong, stupid and irrelevant to this thread. You can't tell the difference because you're a liberal who thinks 'covfefe' is an issue. :D

Nice try but you can't bait me.

Have fun!
 
One rarely gets...

Nickyjo has made several claims of fact that are either misleading or wrong. Before engaging in a rational discussion of immigration I believe all should be fastidious in examining the "facts" spoon fed us through the MSM media, which is often mistaken or intentionally misleading. Therefore, a few correctives to the discussion:

1) “both US political parties have supported immigration, not unlike parties in other countries”.

Misleading. The current center of gravity against massive, demographic altering immigration is now in the GOP base – leaders like “porous borders” Jeb Bush and the Chamber of Commerce do not represent the majority view of Republicans.

2) “the last democratic president deported record numbers of illegals”.

Misleading and false propaganda. This claim originated in 2012, before Obama’s DAPA and DACA’s “amnesty”. Critical analysis shows that the claim was then based on manipulated statistics that used differing definitions, counting methods, administrative changes, and population clades to generate non-comparable statistics (something Obama even admitted). In fact, it turned out that once an illegal got beyond the border, under Obama such a person had the least chance of being deported (almost nil).

3) “The increase in immigration from 3rd world countries to the US dates from the mid-60s, when the geographic bias against, for example, non-3rd world Italians ended (JFK noted this bias when I saw him speak in my all Italian neighborhood in 1960). Ironically, Italian immigrants have been the exception, voting strongly republican despite the change in the law...”

Misleading or Wrong.
To my knowledge there was no “bias” against Italians in immigration law. The law put a limit of ALL nationalities in proportion to the makeup of the US population. Also, do note that Italian immigrant communities began to vote for Democrats in the 1920s, fully joining the new deal coalition in 1932 (as did most blue collars).

4) “Our biased immigration laws changed over 30 years ago, in 1986 I believe...”

Actually our largely wise immigration law was changed in 1965, ending nationality limits and vastly expanding chain migration - both of which has created the demographic change of the US (projected to be mainly Latino by 2100).
 
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You're too hung up on immigration of the past. It's entirely different now, because for the first time Democrats depend on immigrants (illegal or otherwise) from 3rd world nations to replace baby boomers' votes. Reagan has nothing to do with it. It's like talking to a Civil War vet about the Vietnam war (if that was possible). The Civil War vet wouldn't know what communism was. He'd probably say, "Dagnabit, what we doin' way over there anyhoo?"

My only quarrel with the above is your saying "for the first time." Immigrants have been voting democratic for generations. People in cities voted democratic, immigrants tend to gather in cities, so many of them in fact that in the east the Democratic Party had regular and reform democratic wings, much as the GOP is divided between the conservative wing in the House and more moderates there and in the Senate. But a large part of democratic strength comes from young people whatever their color or background. I don't think the aging of boomers is a problem as much as their message and recent candidate.
 
It's entirely different now, because for the first time Democrats depend on immigrants (illegal or otherwise) from 3rd world nations to replace baby boomers' votes.

My only quarrel with the above is your saying "for the first time." Immigrants have been voting democratic for generations.

Which has nothing to do with the debate. In the past all political parties were against illegal immigration, or great quantities of immigration from third world nations. Now the Left is extremely desperate for such people, for a reason. From the OP you forgot to read, and I will bold the first sentence of that OP, and the part about ‘all Western Democracies’:


It wasn’t long ago that Democrats and Western liberal governments were as against illegal immigration as conservatives were. Over the last few years that changed. Lefties in all western democracies began to encourage illegal immigration. They allowed it to happen, did little to stop it, encouraged it, defended it, promoted it, and nowadays, are fighting for it with great gusto. A few years ago I realised why.

Baby boomers are dying.

Every year millions of baby boomers die, retire, go senile, get put in homes, or just turn into demented couch potatoes.

How will the Left replace these millions of votes?

Illegal immigrants, that’s how. And they’re doing a fine job of letting them pour in.

You let in a million illegals, and within a few years they become 5 million. Then 20 million, and so on. Most will continue voting for the Left generationally. It’s a great way to replace hippies.

It doesn’t matter to the Left how this will disturb society. They don’t care about that. They only care about retaining power.

You have spent very little time discussing any of that. You’ve nattered on about irrelevant history. I’m talking about a sea change, not what was going on before that sea change. Do you understand analogies? Didn’t the Civil War one do it for you? Okay, here’s another: It’s like arguing with an old woman fresh out of Sicily, who has never heard of brain surgery, talking about how in the old days they’d put vinegar and lime on the brain-damaged patient’s head. “These days we operate on the brain,” you say. “No,” she insists. “Vinegar and lime. It works. Vinegar and Lime. Vinegar and Lime.”

But a large part of democratic strength comes from young people whatever their color or background.

Yippee. Back to that old screed again. Yes, we know that there are voters OTHER than baby boomers, but the baby boomers are a HUGE chunk of the Left side’s votes. Them disappearing is NOT a small issue as you keep implying by brushing the issue aside petulantly. It’s a huge bloody issue, and the Left is panicking their tits off over it all over the world. And THAT, my fine feathered friend, explains their SUDDEN and AMAZING about-face in regards to illegal immigration.

I don't think the aging of boomers is a problem

You don't say!? Now that you’ve finally addressed this issue, you didn't bother providing any argument. Just, “I don’t think it is.”

Whoopee do. What a great anti-climax.

.
 
I doubt anyone is suggesting a “conspiracy” by liberals or business conservatives to import people, that accusation is a straw man. On the contrary, what is being suggested is that immigration infatuation is a) a socially learned and shared set of false beliefs and values that have become “conventional wisdom” for the majority of Democrats and some Republicans (in the business class) and b) a cynical political stance against the working class for partisan gain.

The Democratic leadership is not obtuse; they know that identity politics have turned Democrats into a gaggle of lobbying and entitlement seeking “victim” groups (those defined by gender, race, sexual orientation and ethnic “minorities”). They all share the mindset that there is no political future in a shrinking white working class BUT there is a manna of votes in the “welcoming” of as many skill-less third world “victims” as possible, especially Latinos.

At this point no one disputes it. During the last few elections Democrats have openly taunted Republicans with the reality of demographic change, and their once whispered hope is now openly celebrated. In fact the last of the Democrats actually concerned about white blue collars and unskilled was Senator Dorgan, who killed the last amnesty effort in 2005 (along with Bryd).

As Peter Beinart (a long-time liberal) writes in The Atlantic:

Prominent liberals didn’t oppose immigration a decade ago (but)...Still, (at least) they routinely asserted that low-skilled immigrants depressed the wages of low-skilled American workers and strained America’s welfare state.

Today, little of that ambivalence remains. In 2008, the Democratic platform called undocumented immigrants “our neighbors.” But it also warned that ... “those who enter our country’s borders illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of the law.” By 2016, such language was gone. The party’s platform described America’s immigration system as a problem, but not illegal immigration itself. And it focused almost entirely on the forms of immigration enforcement that Democrats opposed.

In its immigration section, the 2008 platform referred three times to people entering the country “illegally.” The immigration section of the 2016 platform didn’t use the word*illegal, or any variation of it, at all. ...

A larger explanation is political. Between 2008 and 2016, Democrats became more and more confident that the country’s growing Latino population gave the party an electoral edge. To win the presidency, Democrats convinced themselves, they didn’t need to reassure white people skeptical of immigration so long as they turned out their Latino base. “The fastest-growing sector of the American electorate stampeded toward the Democrats this November,”*Salon*declared after Obama’s 2008 win. “If that pattern continues, the GOP is doomed to 40 years of wandering in a desert.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-democrats-immigration-mistake/528678/
 
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I doubt anyone is suggesting a “conspiracy” by liberals or business conservatives to import people, that accusation is a straw man.

You are probably answering Nickyjo who suggested I said there was a “liberal conspiracy” to import people.

A conspiracy is something that is kept secret. This is no secret. Obama, Clinton, Merkel, other EU leaders, Rudd and Gillard would have sat around their own tables to discuss the huge loss of baby boomer votes coming up soon (through death, senility, retirement, bad health, etc). They would be crazy not to have met to talk about this crisis. That would be called ‘normal political planning’. If they decided (as I think it’s obvious they did) that something had to be done, and one option was to increase immigration from 3rd world nations, nobody would call that a conspiracy. It was a battle plan. So we see that around the world immigration became a huge issue – much bigger than in the past – as millions of 3rd world immigrants poured into the U.S., Europe and many tens of thousands into Australia. That huge mass migration was big enough an issue to cause Brexit and Trump to be elected, and here in Australia, for the Labor Party to be tossed out and replaced by Tony Abbott, who put an end to the never ending boat people pouring in, bringing tens of thousands of Nigerians with no identification at all.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s a simple strategy to replace lost votes for the Left, and it’s working very well. Or it was. Today Europe is slowing down, and will soon stop all such immigration, as long as conservatives get into power. Australia has stopped the problem, and Trump is working on it.

It’s clear in the U.S. that Democrats openly support and encourage illegal immigrants, protect them and encourage them with ‘asylum cities’. It’s clear those same illegal immigrants vote and that no Democrats will lift a hand to stop them. The agenda is clear, and it’s pure vote rigging.
 
Immigration is certainly good. But without selection it is not as good. Illegally it is bad and gives the immigrants an illegal spin to begin with handicapping their children and children's children. One thing that is sad is that these people think it better to be illegal in the US than legal at home.


legal immigration brought us Italians and their mafia. How is that good?
 
legal immigration brought us Italians and their mafia. How is that good?

Wait a minute! Not all of us are mafioso... Though I had an uncle Louie who used to loan money... But you hit on it... Immigrant communities, for a variety of reasons, have often had high crime rates... A NYC newspaper editorialized 150 years or so ago that "without Germans and Irish, a policeman's job would be a sinecure." (Yeah, I had to lookup sinecure as well.)

Have to presume that illegal migrants keep their heads down and generally stay out of trouble.
 
Wait a minute! Not all of us are mafioso... Though I had an uncle Louie who used to loan money... But you hit on it... Immigrant communities, for a variety of reasons, have often had high crime rates... A NYC newspaper editorialized 150 years or so ago that "without Germans and Irish, a policeman's job would be a sinecure." (Yeah, I had to lookup sinecure as well.)

Have to presume that illegal migrants keep their heads down and generally stay out of trouble.


It takes a couple generations for immigrants to get being an American
 
You are probably answering Nickyjo who suggested I said there was a “liberal conspiracy” to import people.

A conspiracy is something that is kept secret. This is no secret. Obama, Clinton, Merkel, other EU leaders, Rudd and Gillard would have sat around their own tables to discuss the huge loss of baby boomer votes coming up soon (through death, senility, retirement, bad health, etc). They would be crazy not to have met to talk about this crisis. That would be called ‘normal political planning’. If they decided (as I think it’s obvious they did) that something had to be done, and one option was to increase immigration from 3rd world nations, nobody would call that a conspiracy. It was a battle plan. So we see that around the world immigration became a huge issue – much bigger than in the past – as millions of 3rd world immigrants poured into the U.S., Europe and many tens of thousands into Australia. That huge mass migration was big enough an issue to cause Brexit and Trump to be elected, and here in Australia, for the Labor Party to be tossed out and replaced by Tony Abbott, who put an end to the never ending boat people pouring in, bringing tens of thousands of Nigerians with no identification at all.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s a simple strategy to replace lost votes for the Left, and it’s working very well. Or it was. Today Europe is slowing down, and will soon stop all such immigration, as long as conservatives get into power. Australia has stopped the problem, and Trump is working on it.

It’s clear in the U.S. that Democrats openly support and encourage illegal immigrants, protect them and encourage them with ‘asylum cities’. It’s clear those same illegal immigrants vote and that no Democrats will lift a hand to stop them. The agenda is clear, and it’s pure vote rigging.

And I insist that the agenda is far from clear. Immigrants, with certain notable exceptions, may tend to vote democratic, after becoming citizens years after entering the country. Democrats might tend to support immigrant issues cause they and immigrants already here often reside in cities, just like republicans support some farm issues cause many of their constituents are rural dwellers. Both parties will look at demographics and adjust their politics accordingly. When the republicans a few years ago realized that demographics might be trending against them, they didn't put up roadblocks to restrict legal immigration They worked on it the old fashioned way, with voter ID laws and gerrymandering, (plus the positive of changing their messaging to appeal to diverse groups), much as the democrats might make voting easier for students and other groups to increase their voting power. I don't think either party plays the long immigration game for voters as you suggest, one way or another. They adapt to a changing population, not try to change it.
 
It takes a couple generations for immigrants to get being an American

In a way you're right, but some do catch on right away. My dad was an instant patriot, came here as a youth, proud that he lived next door to where Thomas Paine did at one time, could quote Patrick Henry speeches. Registered to vote as soon as he came of age, unlike his parents and some other relatives who apparently never did.
 
In a way you're right, but some do catch on right away. My dad was an instant patriot, came here as a youth, proud that he lived next door to where Thomas Paine did at one time, could quote Patrick Henry speeches. Registered to vote as soon as he came of age, unlike his parents and some other relatives who apparently never did.


Your dad was the exception not the rule
 
You are probably answering Nickyjo who suggested I said there was a “liberal conspiracy” to import people.

A conspiracy is something that is kept secret. This is no secret. Obama, Clinton, Merkel, other EU leaders, Rudd and Gillard would have sat around their own tables to discuss the huge loss of baby boomer votes coming up soon (through death, senility, retirement, bad health, etc). They would be crazy not to have met to talk about this crisis... . So we see that around the world immigration became a huge issue – much bigger than in the past – as millions of 3rd world immigrants poured into the U.S., Europe and many tens of thousands into Australia....as long as conservatives get into power. Australia has stopped the problem, and Trump is working on it.

It’s clear in the U.S. that Democrats openly support and encourage illegal immigrants, protect them and encourage them with ‘asylum cities’. It’s clear those same illegal immigrants vote and that no Democrats will lift a hand to stop them. The agenda is clear, and it’s pure vote rigging.

You and I seem to agree on the undesirability of contemporary immigration, but I'm going to suggest a slightly different scenario (at least in the US). I don't believe that anyone on the left or the right have noticed or cared about baby boomer voters - most of those voters "mellowed" long ago (a surprising number voting for Reagan). However, I do believe that Democratic politicians are fully aware that more non-European immigrants means more votes (unless those immigrants are refugees from a communist regime), and have changed their beliefs to fish for those current and anticipated new voters.

The demographic and ideological dynamics since the mid-sixties has been as follows:

In 1968 Kevin Philips wrote the book "The Emerging Republican Majority". His analysis of demography showed that as the working class (mostly whites and white ethnics) became middle class their values changed. Given continued growth in lower class prosperity, Democrats were inevitably going to lose shrinking blue collar votes and be reduced to a smaller party of the poor, government workers, and the like. Moreover, the solid democratic south was starting to crack, along with traditional white "ethnics" (e.g. Catholics) in the NE, also to the advantage of Republicans.

Those dynamics played out until the GOP won the House for the first time in decades, in 1994. However, Phillips later noted that immigration and social changes would alter that balance. While whites were a constantly decreasing proportion of those below the poverty line, immigrants from the 3rd world were replacing them. Hence, the poverty rate was not declining and (of course), the poor is one of the major Democratic voting blocks.

In the mid-1990s Kevin Phillips wrote a new book on "The Emerging Democratic Majority". The growth in immigration, minorities, and single women would invariably mean the US would evolve into a one-Party system - an overwhelming Democratic majority for the next several generations.

The dynamics have been obvious:

1) Without massive immigration the poverty rate for Americans would have kept declining, eroding the Democratic "dependency" votes. Without massive immigration, the grievance minority groups would be smaller. And with GOP dominance, the ideological legitimization of unmarried women (especially those with children) dependent on the "daddy" state would have been challenged. In other words, the quality of life for the average US citizen would have been far better.

2) With massive immigration the underclass can be kept full (and expanded), the minority ranks (and racial resentment) can become the "majority", the government dependency class expanded.

In other words, Democrats depend on class, gender, and race political warfare to prosper. The last thing they desired was a prosperous, happy, white middle class dominating national politics. I would say the Dems won that battle.
 
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And I insist that the agenda is far from clear. Immigrants, with certain notable exceptions, may tend to vote democratic, after becoming citizens years after entering the country. Democrats might tend to support immigrant issues cause they and immigrants already here often reside in cities, just like republicans support some farm issues cause many of their constituents are rural dwellers. Both parties will look at demographics and adjust their politics accordingly. When the republicans a few years ago realized that demographics might be trending against them, they didn't put up roadblocks to restrict legal immigration They worked on it the old fashioned way, with voter ID laws and gerrymandering, (plus the positive of changing their messaging to appeal to diverse groups), much as the democrats might make voting easier for students and other groups to increase their voting power. I don't think either party plays the long immigration game for voters as you suggest, one way or another. They adapt to a changing population, not try to change it.

Perhaps you should self-reflect on why you are in denial of the self-evident. As the Atlantic article pointed out, EVERYONE is aware that non-European immigrants (mostly non-white 3rd worlders) strongly vote democratic regardless of location. Everyone is now aware that Democrats (and some Republicans) support immigration based on extended family, rather than by merit. And everyone knows that the focus of Democratic politicians (and politicized judges) has been to let successful border crossers stay, and to undermine the enforcement system and prevent robust border enforcement.

I agree that "Both parties will look at demographics and adjust their politics accordingly." However, it is clear that Democrats play politics by the newer fashioned way: undermining the law, avidly supporting amnesty proposals, and doing the minimal necessary for border enforcement. And modern Republicans actually DON'T do it the old fashioned way...restrictive immigration law and aggressive enforcement.

Here is a dose of the "old-fashioned" way when Eisenhower was President: Operation Wetback.

Then on June 17, 1954, what was called "Operation Wetback" began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.

By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas.

By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State voluntarily.

Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, Swing arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free. (And) Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Vera Cruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles south.

So here is a toast to "the old fashioned way".
 
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You and I seem to agree on the undesirability of contemporary immigration, but I'm going to suggest a slightly different scenario (at least in the US). I don't believe that anyone on the left or the right have noticed or cared about baby boomer voters - most of those voters "mellowed" long ago (a surprising number voting for Reagan). However, I do believe that Democratic politicians are fully aware that more non-European immigrants means more votes (unless those immigrants are refugees from a communist regime), and have changed their beliefs to fish for those current and anticipated new voters.

The demographic and ideological dynamics since the mid-sixties has been as follows:

In 1968 Kevin Philips wrote the book "The Emerging Republican Majority". His analysis of demography showed that as the working class (mostly whites and white ethnics) became middle class their values changed. Given continued growth in lower class prosperity, Democrats were inevitably going to lose shrinking blue collar votes and be reduced to a smaller party of the poor, government workers, and the like. Moreover, the solid democratic south was starting to crack, along with traditional white "ethnics" (e.g. Catholics) in the NE, also to the advantage of Republicans.

Those dynamics played out until the GOP won the House for the first time in decades, in 1994. However, Phillips later noted that immigration and social changes would alter that balance. While whites were a constantly decreasing proportion of those below the poverty line, immigrants from the 3rd world were replacing them. Hence, the poverty rate was not declining and (of course), the poor is one of the major Democratic voting blocks.

In the mid-1990s Kevin Phillips wrote a new book on "The Emerging Democratic Majority". The growth in immigration, minorities, and single women would invariably mean the US would evolve into a one-Party system - an overwhelming Democratic majority for the next several generations.

The dynamics have been obvious:

1) Without massive immigration the poverty rate for Americans would have kept declining, eroding the Democratic "dependency" votes. Without massive immigration, the grievance minority groups would be smaller. And with GOP dominance, the ideological legitimization of unmarried women (especially those with children) dependent on the "daddy" state would have been challenged. In other words, the quality of life for the average US citizen would have been far better.

2) With massive immigration the underclass can be kept full (and expanded), the minority ranks (and racial resentment) can become the "majority", the government dependency class expanded.

In other words, Democrats depend on class, gender, and race political warfare to prosper. The last thing they desired was a prosperous, happy, white middle class dominating national politics. I would say the Dems won that battle.

Pretty dark vision. Democrats sure are smart. Their humane and just policies, environmental concerns, etc., are just a cover.
 
I don't believe that anyone on the left or the right have noticed or cared about baby boomer voters

It’s clear they have. At the moment there are 78.2 million of them in America, and 50.8 percent of whom are women. Equally large percentages are found in Europe and Australia. Anyone counting votes is going to notice and care about that mountain of hippies.

- most of those voters "mellowed" long ago

Not quite. The ‘mellowing’ you describe is just them becoming old and frail, and not wanting to be hurt physically. They’ve learned to keep quiet and humor conservatives rather than risk a fight. You meet a boomer and talk about how great Trump is, and they nod their head and humor you. “Uh huh. Oh yes, that’s nice. Uh huh.” Then they scurry off and vote for Clinton as fast as their arthritic legs will carry them. It’s called ‘learning how to be diplomatic’. Online they come out of their shells. One old bat was trolling me here the other day. She’s a good example of a boomer. No doubt she dare not mention her leftist views to her conservative young neighbors. Another form of ‘mellowing’ comes from them becoming senile and forgetting. Either way, a huge percentage of them are Lefties, and the Democrats are losing their votes increasingly as they are carted off to old people’s homes, hospitals, cemeteries, etc.

Democrats depend on class, gender, and race political warfare to prosper.

Agreed.

The last thing they desired was a prosperous, happy, white middle class dominating national politics. I would say the Dems won that battle.

Agreed. Since the Cold War the Fifth Column has been steadily working away to eat our capitalist systems away from the inside, and they did a great job.
 
The only illegal immigrants are the White European settlers and their descendants who came here illegally and genocided the Native population since 1492. People crossing the ‘border’ imposed on their continent by the Europeans are just moving about in their ancestral land. They have Indigenous blood and are free to move about their continent that was stolen from them. The Baby Boomers are retiring and are a huge burden on the social security system. Since Baby Boomers had way fewer children their their parents did with them, there are simply not enough young people, therefore immigration is an essential economic requirement.

You don't know history very well C.
The 'natives' of N America all came from Europe at one time or another.
Early natives fought and killed each other for a variety of reasons all through their history.
White Europeans fought too, and won. Winners set the new rules. That is just historical fact. We see it in every corner of the globe we care to look.
Hispanics have huge % of European blood for the most part. There are very few truly native Hispanics, which even at that are of European decent.

But all that said, I have no problem with legal immigration. I have no problem with most Hispanics who just want to come to a Country that is far nicer than the squalor that is Mexico and other Latin countries for the most part.
I just have a problem with the La Raza types that want to destroy America and make it look like Mexico.
Most want to come here because it is great here. :) Let them in.

They may start off as liberal voters, because the libs hand them free money to get started. But these people are very hard working for the most part, and won't remain liberals for long. They want more than a free cell phone and know how to work hard to get it. So they are a blessing in disguise. Let them come, orderly, but let them come.
Amen
 
I have no problem with legal immigration.

Nobody does.

Most [Hispanics] want to come here because it is great here. :) Let them in.

As long as they have been screened and have permission, sure. Nobody disagrees with that.

They may start off as liberal voters, because the libs hand them free money to get started. But these people are very hard working for the most part, and won't remain liberals for long.

Incorrect. The majority do remain liberals for long, and this is carried on by their children. It’s not only because of the free money you mentioned. It’s because they know liberals will make it easier for them to bring in their whole families, even the ones with records. Conservatives will be against that. Liberals will also make it easy for their friends who might be illegals too, to find sanctuary cities and so on.

So they are a blessing in disguise.

You’re a liberal in disguise. A lot of libs today call themselves ‘conservatives’.

Let them come, orderly, but let them come.

Only if they pass all the security checks and are legally allowed to come. Also, you need to have a system where they do not go automatically onto welfare, but have to have enough to support themselves. Trump will see to that.


Which god are we praying to? I’m kind of partial to Zeus these days.
 
Nobody does.



As long as they have been screened and have permission, sure. Nobody disagrees with that.



Incorrect. The majority do remain liberals for long, and this is carried on by their children. It’s not only because of the free money you mentioned. It’s because they know liberals will make it easier for them to bring in their whole families, even the ones with records. Conservatives will be against that. Liberals will also make it easy for their friends who might be illegals too, to find sanctuary cities and so on.



You’re a liberal in disguise. A lot of libs today call themselves ‘conservatives’.



Only if they pass all the security checks and are legally allowed to come. Also, you need to have a system where they do not go automatically onto welfare, but have to have enough to support themselves. Trump will see to that.



Which god are we praying to? I’m kind of partial to Zeus these days.

Zeus is dead.
I am not a liberal, but I am not foolish either. Don't call me liberal because we don't agree on every point. Division hurts conservatism. Allow a little play.
We are not far apart, and I don't want bad elements imported to U.S. So be cool. Relax.
 
Zeus is dead.

Man, I never got the memo. What date did He pass? Did He suffer, or was it a quick death?

I am not a liberal, but I am not foolish either. Don't call me liberal because we don't agree on every point. Division hurts conservatism. Allow a little play.

I don’t meet many conservatives who call Hispanic immigrants a ‘blessing in disguise’. Most of them know that Hispanics are mostly liberal voters. I do see many liberals saying these things, and I do see many liberals who say they’re conservatives. So you can understand my natural reaction.

We are not far apart, and I don't want bad elements imported to U.S.

So do you agree with me when I said, “Only if they pass all the security checks and are legally allowed to come. Also, you need to have a system where they do not go automatically onto welfare, but have to have enough to support themselves. Trump will see to that.”

So be cool. Relax.

Amigo, I'm cooler than a polar bear's toenails. :cool:
 

No human being is illegal. I oppose patriotism. Anyone who is financially able to survive in this country should be free to come. All we have to do is get rid of all the social programs and waste including social security. Whoever can survive in America by working hard will remain and those that can’t will go back to their country of origin. We have to relax the borders because truth is we need more unskilled labor from Mesoamerica. We also need more racial diversity in heavily White homogenous areas.

What if their country of origin is the US? Holy crap....there will be a lot of hurting people if we ever did that.
 
Man, I never got the memo. What date did He pass? Did He suffer, or was it a quick death?

I don’t meet many conservatives who call Hispanic immigrants a ‘blessing in disguise’. Most of them know that Hispanics are mostly liberal voters. I do see many liberals saying these things, and I do see many liberals who say they’re conservatives. So you can understand my natural reaction.

So do you agree with me when I said, “Only if they pass all the security checks and are legally allowed to come. Also, you need to have a system where they do not go automatically onto welfare, but have to have enough to support themselves. Trump will see to that.”

Amigo, I'm cooler than a polar bear's toenails. :cool:

He found out he never existed. It was quick.

I have worked in the fields with Hispanics for an extended period when I was young. Hard working folk, amazingly so.
they are fresh and ready to get ahead. The ones coming (if it is difficult) are dedicated and determined folks. So yes, make it very difficult. Get the best. These are a blessing. These are the ones who built this country, from all nations. And I'm all for allowing from other than Latin countries. (-Muslims (these are a political cancer)). :)

Yes, I agree on checks. Glad you are cool bro.
 
legal immigration brought us Italians and their mafia. How is that good?

They helped keep the streets safe in little Italy.
 
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