GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it does.

NOTE: This thread is exclusively about the Graham-Cassidy bill. It is not about the ACA, unless it is specifically in reference to how the the Graham-Cassidy bill is a change or improvement to the ACA.

Republican senators are struggling to articulate why they are rushing to pass their last-ditch effort to repeal and replace Obamacare over the next 10 days before running into their September 30 deadline.

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https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/po...0/16333876/republican-senators-graham-cassidy

I highlighted a couple choice selections, but they're all along these lines shown below. In other words, the Senators in support of the bill have no coherent understanding of what they're voting on, let alone how it fixes any of the current issues related to the ACA. If you thought the Trump supporters in my thread in Breaking News were inarticulate, ignorant, evasive and deflective, get ready to find no better with our nation's elected Senators.

Jeff Stein
Senator, I wanted to ask you for a policy-based explanation for why you’re moving forward with the Graham-Cassidy proposal. What problems will this solve in the health care system?

Pat Roberts
... [Graham-Cassidy] is the last stage out of Dodge City. I’m from Dodge City. So it’s the last stage out to do anything. Restoring decision-making back to the states is always a good idea, but this is not the best possible bill — this is the best bill possible under the circumstances.

If we do nothing, I think it has a tremendous impact on the 2018 elections. And whether or not Republicans still maintain control and we have the gavel.

Jeff Stein
But why does this bill make things better for Americans? How does it help?

Pat Roberts
Look, we’re in the back seat of a convertible being driven by Thelma and Louise, and we’re headed toward the canyon. That’s a movie that you’ve probably never seen —

Jeff Stein
I do know Thelma & Louise, sir.

Pat Roberts
So we have to get out of the car, and you have to have a car to get into, and this is the only car there is.

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Jeff Stein
What’s the policy explanation for the Graham-Cassidy bill? What substantive problems does this solve?

Jim Inhofe
Well, first of all, as a general rule the states do things better than the federal government does [things]. And that is essentially what the bill is. We actually had a bill that passed, except at the last minute — as you know — we had one deciding vote against it that was unforeseen. And I think what we’re looking at right now is essentially the same thing.

It’s a stronger position for the states to be in, and generally, Republicans agree with that.

Jeff Stein
I understand what you’re saying with the states having the ability to make these decisions, but the bill doesn’t just “give states more freedom” — it also cuts federal funding to the states. So it’s not just about giving the states more control; it’s also about cutting federal expenditures, right?

Jim Inhofe
Well, yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to be — I think the efficiencies that come with transferring the funding to the states can very well make up the difference between what the federal thing would be.

A philosophical difference — you know?

Jeff Stein
No, what do you mean?

Jim Inhofe
I mean it’s more efficient when it’s done from the states, and so they can do it with less money.

Jeff Stein
Are you confident, and how do you know those savings will be close to enough to protect everyone?

Jim Inhofe
Well, nothing protects everyone.

Click to expand...

Jeff Stein
What are the policies that make you think that?

John Kennedy
I think it spends scarce resources in a more rational manner. It will control costs. I like the idea that it encourages states to innovate.

Jeff Stein
How does it do that? Any of those things?

John Kennedy
Well, you need to read the bill.

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I'd have to say the award for naked honesty goes to Senator Stein of Alabama.

Jeff Stein
The bill would cut federal funding to states by 34 percent over the next —

Richard Shelby
But it wouldn’t cut Alabama, though.

Jeff Stein
Well, do you think the other states should deal with —

Richard Shelby
Well, you see some of our states, four of our states, are getting a disproportionate amount of money from health care now. You know which ones.

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It turns out that when a party has been running on a platform of "government doesn't work" for forty years, then incompetent politicians no smarter than the average poster on this forum will become the standard. And now, these people are going to change our entire healthcare system without first assessing or understanding its impact.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Cardinal said:

NOTE: This thread is exclusively about the Graham-Cassidy bill. It is not about the ACA, unless it is specifically in reference to how the the Graham-Cassidy bill is a change or improvement to the ACA.



https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/po...0/16333876/republican-senators-graham-cassidy

I highlighted a couple choice selections, but they're all along these lines shown below. In other words, the Senators in support of the bill have no coherent understanding of what they're voting on, let alone how it fixes any of the current issues related to the ACA. If you thought the Trump supporters in my thread in Breaking News were inarticulate, ignorant, evasive and deflective, get ready to find no better with our nation's elected Senators.







I'd have to say the award for naked honesty goes to Senator Stein of Alabama.



It turns out that when a party has been running on a platform of "government doesn't work" for forty years, then incompetent politicians no smarter than the average poster on this forum will become the standard. And now, these people are going to change our entire healthcare system without first assessing or understanding its impact.

Click to expand...

We all know what the impact trend line is. The donor class, "job creator" class and Wall Street shift more societal costs onto the backs of the dwindling middle class and the growing underclass. Same as it ever was.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Cardinal said:

NOTE: This thread is exclusively about the Graham-Cassidy bill. It is not about the ACA, unless it is specifically in reference to how the the Graham-Cassidy bill is a change or improvement to the ACA.



https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/po...0/16333876/republican-senators-graham-cassidy

I highlighted a couple choice selections, but they're all along these lines shown below. In other words, the Senators in support of the bill have no coherent understanding of what they're voting on, let alone how it fixes any of the current issues related to the ACA. If you thought the Trump supporters in my thread in Breaking News were inarticulate, ignorant, evasive and deflective, get ready to find no better with our nation's elected Senators.







I'd have to say the award for naked honesty goes to Senator Stein of Alabama.



It turns out that when a party has been running on a platform of "government doesn't work" for forty years, then incompetent politicians no smarter than the average poster on this forum will become the standard. And now, these people are going to change our entire healthcare system without first assessing or understanding its impact.

Click to expand...

:rofl: a trying to shut down comparisons on how the ACA was done. Good luck with that.

As someone once said "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it"

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Crovax said:

:rofl: a trying to shut down comparisons on how the ACA was done. Good luck with that.

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Legitimate comparisons are specifically invited. Just not deflections to the ACA as a way to avoid talking about the Graham-Cassidy bill. You're a pretty decently literate person so I know my post was clear enough for you to comprehend that.

Are you smarter than our average Republican Senator? If so, can you demonstrate the improvements or fixes of the Graham-Cassidy bill? Think of this as the political version of "Are you smarter than a six year old?"

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Cardinal said:

Legitimate comparisons are specifically invited. Just not deflections to the ACA as a way avoid talking about the Graham-Cassidy bill. You're a pretty decently literate person so I know my post was clear enough for you to comprehend that.

Are you smarter than our average Republican Senator? If so, can you demonstrate the improvements or fixes of the Graham-Cassidy bill? Think of it as the political version of "Are you smarter than a six year old?"

Click to expand...

So you dont think passing a bill to find out whats in it is a good strategy?

We really won't know what works better or worse until we see it in action

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Crovax said:

So you dont think passing a bill to find out whats in it is a good strategy?

We really won't know what works better or worse until we see it in action

Click to expand...

So you don't believe the Senators voting on it should be able to explain the benefits or changes of their own bill? Do you agree with their incoherence on their own legislation?

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

It's a complete and utter disaster.

https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/9/20/16333338/obamacare-repeal-graham-cassidy

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Cardinal said:

So you don't believe the Senators voting on it should be able to explain the benefits or changes of their own bill? Do you agree with their incoherence on their own legislation?

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Your average senator has the IQ of a pet rock, I'm amazed they are able to spit out coherent sentences on occasion

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Cardinal said:

So you don't believe the Senators voting on it should be able to explain the benefits or changes of their own bill? Do you agree with their incoherence on their own legislation?

Click to expand...

Pick any bill out at random and read it. Or try to. Then answer your own stupid question. The staff takes the bill apart and "reads it" and produces a summary which is the agenda for a sit down meeting with the staff and also includes input from "legal". If a enough are on board, the senator ignores it and votes with the party. If he has issues he studies it.

I doubt this bill even got to staff level of those polled, and the interviewer probably knew that. They are merely covering their asses and kicking it down to the house.

Personally, I'd keep it since the MSM tells us America is happy with Obamacare. Well, the next round of increases is coming up in October so we'll see how they feel next year.

Remember, Obamacare gutted the entire nations health insurance system to cover the "uninsured" who are for the most part still uninsured. Everyone else is pay extra to fund them. Campaign on that democrats!

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Cardinal said:

NOTE: This thread is exclusively about the Graham-Cassidy bill. It is not about the ACA, unless it is specifically in reference to how the the Graham-Cassidy bill is a change or improvement to the ACA.



https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/po...0/16333876/republican-senators-graham-cassidy

I highlighted a couple choice selections, but they're all along these lines shown below. In other words, the Senators in support of the bill have no coherent understanding of what they're voting on, let alone how it fixes any of the current issues related to the ACA. If you thought the Trump supporters in my thread in Breaking News were inarticulate, ignorant, evasive and deflective, get ready to find no better with our nation's elected Senators.







I'd have to say the award for naked honesty goes to Senator Stein of Alabama.



It turns out that when a party has been running on a platform of "government doesn't work" for forty years, then incompetent politicians no smarter than the average poster on this forum will become the standard. And now, these people are going to change our entire healthcare system without first assessing or understanding its impact.

Click to expand...

Are you predicting this latest government plan to run healthcare is going to be a cluster ****?

I believe it will be an absolute cluster ****.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Cardinal said:

So you don't believe the Senators voting on it should be able to explain the benefits or changes of their own bill? Do you agree with their incoherence on their own legislation?

Click to expand...

I believe they should be able to and if they can't, they should vote no.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Cardinal said:

NOTE: This thread is exclusively about the Graham-Cassidy bill. It is not about the ACA, unless it is specifically in reference to how the the Graham-Cassidy bill is a change or improvement to the ACA.



https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/po...0/16333876/republican-senators-graham-cassidy

I highlighted a couple choice selections, but they're all along these lines shown below. In other words, the Senators in support of the bill have no coherent understanding of what they're voting on, let alone how it fixes any of the current issues related to the ACA. If you thought the Trump supporters in my thread in Breaking News were inarticulate, ignorant, evasive and deflective, get ready to find no better with our nation's elected Senators.







I'd have to say the award for naked honesty goes to Senator Stein of Alabama.



It turns out that when a party has been running on a platform of "government doesn't work" for forty years, then incompetent politicians no smarter than the average poster on this forum will become the standard. And now, these people are going to change our entire healthcare system without first assessing or understanding its impact.

Click to expand...

Much like the ACA was a "first step" toward single payer, this bill is also only a "first step". The difference being that with the ACA it wasn't exactly a secret where they wanted to go with it. Oh, I know that there were some who poo-pooed the notion that it was all part of a larger plan to get us to single payer but I think anyone with even the slightest ability to read between the lines knew exactly what the intent was.

This bill, on the other hand, is a mystery. Many on the right are claiming it is just a "first step" but a first step toward what? As is it, at best, accomplishes nothing and at worst makes an already bad situation even worse.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Tanngrisnir said:

It's a complete and utter disaster.

https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/9/20/16333338/obamacare-repeal-graham-cassidy

Click to expand...

Premiums are going up in 2018 under the ACA by as much as 27 percent in 2018 and average annual deductible for a family on the Bronze plan is over 12,000 dollars

Insurers are still pulling out of exchanges that are disproportionately stocked with older and sicker Americans

The utter disaster is the ACA, and ignoring it or even worse defending it isnt going to make fix anything.

The Democrats had their chance and they delivered ObamaCare, now someone needs to clean up their mess

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Crovax said:

:rofl: a trying to shut down comparisons on how the ACA was done. Good luck with that.

Click to expand...

It's not relevant.

As someone once said "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it"

Click to expand...

So you're good with the GOP holding, last I heard, ONE hearing on remaking 1/7th of our economy? And no CBO score on the predicted effects, so we and they are blind about the likely effects. Seems irresponsible to me. What do you think?

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Fenton said:

Premiums are going up in 2018 under the ACA by as much as 27 percent in 2018 and average annual deductible for a family on the Bronze plan is over 12,000 dollars

Insurers are still pulling out of exchanges that are disproportionately stocked with older and sicker Americans

The utter disaster is the ACA, and ignoring it or even worse defending it isnt going to make fix anything.

The Democrats had their chance and they delivered ObamaCare, now someone needs to clean up their mess

Click to expand...

Utterly irrelevant to what I posted.

Care to try again?

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Fenton said:

Premiums are going up in 2018 under the ACA by as much as 27 percent in 2018 and average annual deductible for a family on the Bronze plan is over 12,000 dollars

Insurers are still pulling out of exchanges that are disproportionately stocked with older and sicker Americans

The utter disaster is the ACA, and ignoring it or even worse defending it isnt going to make fix anything.

The Democrats had their chance and they delivered ObamaCare, now someone needs to clean up their mess

Click to expand...

How does that address anything at all about the Graham-Cassidy option?

The GOP are "cleaning up their mess" by offering up a last minute pig in a poke, no meaningful hearings, no meaningful CBO score, with proponents outright lying about the effects of the bill. I guess a lot of us knew the modern GOP really was just that bad, but I'm not sure why anyone would vote for or support a bill under the circumstances we're given.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Tanngrisnir said:

Utterly irrelevant to what I posted.

Care to try again?

Click to expand...

Sometimes I think that poster is a bot operating as a right wing talking point generator. The logic function of the program appears to fail sometimes.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

JasperL said:

Sometimes I think that poster is a bot operating as a right wing talking point generator. The logic function of the program appears to fail sometimes.

Click to expand...

If I had to hazard a guess I'd say such a program was never actually installed.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Under the Cassidy-Graham block-grant funding scheme, in the years 2020-2026 ... 16 states will experience a net gain (% varies) of federal healthcare funding, and 34 states will experience a net loss (% varies) of federal healthcare funding.

In 2027 all federal block-grant healthcare funding ceases. In the years 2020-2026, the states collectively lose $215B in federal healthcare funding compared to current law.*

From 2017-2037 the states collectively will lose $4T in federal healthcare funding compared to current law.*

* Compared to the Affordable Care Act (ACA/Obamacare).


Source: Avalere Health Consultants

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Tanngrisnir said:

Utterly irrelevant to what I posted.

Care to try again?

Click to expand...

You said Grahm - Cassidy was a utter disaster, I simply reminded you what a utter disaster looks like

Grahm-Cassidy repeals the employer mandate and the individual mandate and gives States the authority to waive some of ObamaCare eroneous regulations and mandates

It provides for medicaid block grants and removes Federal funding of abortion.

Is it perfect ? No, is it a step in the right way ? Yep

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Fenton said:

You said Grahm - Cassidy was a utter disaster, I simply reminded you what a utter disaster looks like

Grahm-Cassidy repeals the employer mandate and the individual mandate and gives States the authority to waive some of ObamaCare eroneous regulations and mandates

It provides for medicaid block grants and removes Federal funding of abortion.

Is it perfect ? No, is it a step in the right way ? Yep

Click to expand...

And it removes the ten essential health benefits, ends medicaid expansion, reinstates lifetime/annual caps for coverage, destabilizes the individual markets, and removes protections for pre-existing conditions. Are those steps in the right direction?

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Rogue Valley said:

Under the Cassidy-Graham block-grant funding scheme, in the years 2020-2026 ... 16 states will experience a net gain (% varies) of federal healthcare funding, and 34 states will experience a net loss (% varies) of federal healthcare funding.

In 2027 all federal block-grant healthcare funding ceases. In the years 2020-2026, the states collectively lose $215B in federal healthcare funding compared to current law.*

From 2017-2037 the states collectively will lose $4T in federal healthcare funding compared to current law.*

* Compared to the Affordable Care Act (ACA/Obamacare).


Source: Avalere Health Consultants

Click to expand...

The ACA is currently in a death spiral with premiums projected to rise in some States by as much as 27 percent in 2018 and more insurers bailing out of exchanges that are bleeding money

Projecting out the ACAs contributions and benefits to States or Policy holders or medicaid benefits is a absolute joke.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Cardinal said:

NOTE: This thread is exclusively about the Graham-Cassidy bill. It is not about the ACA, unless it is specifically in reference to how the the Graham-Cassidy bill is a change or improvement to the ACA.



https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/po...0/16333876/republican-senators-graham-cassidy

I highlighted a couple choice selections, but they're all along these lines shown below. In other words, the Senators in support of the bill have no coherent understanding of what they're voting on, let alone how it fixes any of the current issues related to the ACA. If you thought the Trump supporters in my thread in Breaking News were inarticulate, ignorant, evasive and deflective, get ready to find no better with our nation's elected Senators.







I'd have to say the award for naked honesty goes to Senator Stein of Alabama.



It turns out that when a party has been running on a platform of "government doesn't work" for forty years, then incompetent politicians no smarter than the average poster on this forum will become the standard. And now, these people are going to change our entire healthcare system without first assessing or understanding its impact.

Click to expand...

Unlike ACA I haven't read this one. Hard to say, what to say about the above without knowing exactly what they're talking about.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

joG said:

Unlike ACA I haven't read this one. Hard to say, what to say about the above without knowing exactly what they're talking about.

Click to expand...

Then take some time to learn something about the Graham-Cassidy bill, then return to this thread and see if their answers are any more coherent.

Re: GOP senators are rushing to pass Graham-Cassidy. We asked 9 to explain what it do

Crovax said:

So you dont think passing a bill to find out whats in it is a good strategy?

We really won't know what works better or worse until we see it in action

Click to expand...

Pelosi, eh? Full quote on the bottom.


I really don't understand why other people don't understand that that deflection is less than a non-answer.

You lot raised hell over that deliberate misquoting of Pelosi (though it was admittedly an awkward sentence even in context); she was not saying she didn't know what was in it. She was saying that the American people were woefully misled by all the smokescreens and hell raising put on by the GOP, and that they would unfortunately only find out all the details once the smokescreens faded and it actually approached the effective date. She was not saying that she had no idea what was in it, as was pretended then, as the bolded "gotcha" now pretends.

But let's look further anyway. If you were right to raise hell then (you weren't, but if) - this assumes the hellraisers knew they weren't simply full of it at the time - then it is no answer for a hellraiser to raise the quote as some kind of but Obama style gotcha when, now, the GOP genuinely doesn't seem to know (or more likely, want to admit) what their bill actually does.





"They do it too" is simply not the defense people seem to think it is when they type things on debate boards.

Either it's bad now because it was bad then, and therefore you shouldn't be defending the GOP senators by referring to it. OR it was BS to pretend it was bad then, and it's a double-serving of BS to refer back to it now.

There's no mystical third option where it was bad when Dems did it but cool when Rs do it. (Again, not that what happened back then was like what is going on now, but playing along...)





Actual full Pelosi quote:

Imagine an economy where people could follow their aspirations, where they could be entrepreneurial, where they could take risks professionally because personally their families [sic] health care needs are being met. Where they could be self-employed or start a business, not be job-locked in a job because they have health care there, and if they went out on their own it would be unaffordable to them, but especially true, if someone has a child with a pre-existing condition. So when we pass our bill, never again will people be denied coverage because they have a pre-existing condition. We have to do this in partnership, and I wanted to bring [you] up to date on where we see it from here. The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention–it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.



FACT CHECK: Did Nancy Pelosi Say Obamacare Must be Passed to 'Find Out What Is in It'?

Wow. Sounds a whole lot different than lying right-wingers made it sound when it's in context, eh?