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A Tale of Two Persecutions & Discriminations Through History; Blacks and Jews

JBG

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Two groups, blacks (I didn't use the term "African-American" since this post applies to UK and other places) and Jews, have for centuries suffered egregious or at least invidious discrimination. African and Muslim tribes, some black and some Middle-Eastern were engaged in systematic enslavement and barter of other blacks, and in some cases whites as we know from the Barbary Coast Pirates. Some of those slavers sold their human chattel to European merchants, who apparently paid quite handsomely. Many of the slaveholders were barbarous. Men were split from female companions or wives, children from parents. In many cases they were beaten and dehumanized. In fact the U.S. Supreme Court ("SCOTUS") in its infamous decision Dred Scott v. Sanford, 60 U.S. 393, 451, 452 (1857) stated in party:

SCOTUS in Dred Scott v. Sanford said:
Now, as we have already said in an earlier part of this opinion, upon a different point, the right of property in a slave is distinctly and expressly affirmed in the Constitution. The right to traffic in it, like an ordinary article of merchandise and property....
Almost equally revolting was the post-slavery "separate but equal" decision in Plessy v. Ferguson, 163 U.S. 537, 550, 551 (1896):
SCOTUS in Plessy v. Ferguson said:
Gauged by this standard, we cannot say that a law which authorizes or even requires the separation of the two races in public conveyances is unreasonable, or more obnoxious to the fourteenth amendment than the acts of congress requiring separate schools for colored children in the District of Columbia, the constitutionality of which does not seem to have been questioned, or the corresponding acts of state legislatures.
Relying on Plessy, Oklahoma admitted a student named McLaurin to a graduate school. Pursuant to a requirement of state law that the instruction of Negroes in institutions of higher education be "upon a segregated basis," however, he was assigned to a seat in the classroom in a row specified for Negro students, was assigned to a special table in the library, and, although permitted to eat in the cafeteria at the same time as other students, was assigned to a special table there. The SCOTUS held that this treatment violated his right to equal treatment, and this and other decisions paved the way to the overturning of Plessy. See McLaurin v. Oklahoma, 339 U.S. 637 (1950).

While not as dramatic discrimination against black people has undoubtedly continued. And this is not limited to the U.S. Many countries such as Japan don't allow blacks to immigrate at all. And even in Africa there is discrimination based on religion and other factors, many arbitrary. The destruction and demoralization of families through slavery in the U.S. has, no doubt, severely hurt the black family and continues to reduce their economic and social opportunities despite the erasure of legal barriers. Black communities are plagued by high dropout and crime rates, illegitimacy and other ills. There is now a focus on eliminating statues that seem to celebrate past racism.

The Jewish people have, for millenniums suffered severe and often lethal persecution. Throughout Christian Europe and even during the "Golden Age" in Moorish Spain there were periodic riots in which many Jews died and more were uprooted. In modern Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Belorussia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Moldova Jews were segregated in ghettos and a large "Pale of Settlement." Conditions here were popularized in Fiddler on the Roof. Even upon emigration of many of them to the U.S. conditions were far from perfect. Many died in industrial horrors such as the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. There were official and unofficial restrictions such as quota systems limiting their attendance at prestigious universities.

Yet the Jews are usually derided for having too much influence, too much affluence and indeed for dominating policy at local, state and Federal levels. While there is divorce in Jewish families, the rates are low enough that even children of broken homes have role models in their peers.The children are rarely truants, and violence (except in Hasidic sects which is a different topic altogether) is rare. Police are not afraid to go into Jewish areas, and there is rarely a struggle between Jewish communities and police authorities.

The victimization of Jews has been among the most systematic of any group. I think Jews and blacks need to pull together again, as Martin Luther King eloquently urged. And I think minority leaders need to deal with their own community problems and focus less on inanimate symbols such as statues and problems of the past such as the history of slavery and racism.
 
O Mountainous Wall of Text, it seems our paths have crossed once more. Twas' fate that we would meet again.
 
The absolute hatred for Jewish people that exists is something I just don't understand. Is it jealousy? Scapegoating?
 
The absolute hatred for Jewish people that exists is something I just don't understand. Is it jealousy? Scapegoating?

It's jealousy of their inability to pull off wearing those numerous and stylish Jewish styles of trendy hat ware.

In all seriousness, I never understood that either.
 
The absolute hatred for Jewish people that exists is something I just don't understand. Is it jealousy? Scapegoating?

plus one other factor, for a good deal of history Jews in Europe were an identifiable population that assimilated slowly, thus subject to more jealousy and scapegoating.

not saying it's right, but it seems that oppression works best we it's easy to identify who it is you're oppressing.
 
The absolute hatred for Jewish people that exists is something I just don't understand. Is it jealousy? Scapegoating?

Bigotry does not have to make sense - it is the artificial self elevation of one identifiable group over another. A bigot need not do anything other than exist to declare themselves as superior to those that they declare as inferior to themselves and thus unworthy of even existing.
 
plus one other factor, for a good deal of history Jews in Europe were an identifiable population that assimilated slowly, thus subject to more jealousy and scapegoating.

not saying it's right, but it seems that oppression works best we it's easy to identify who it is you're oppressing.
Very simple. We weren't even allowed to study or learn the language of the countries in which we lived, or own land. Most Jews actually wanted badly to assimilate. When we came to New York we worked by day, and went to night school to learn English. Except for the Hasids we are very big on assimilating.
 
The absolute hatred for Jewish people that exists is something I just don't understand. Is it jealousy? Scapegoating?

I never understood that either, when I was a little kid I couldn't understand why the "white" supremacists hated Jews when all the Jewsish people I had seen/met at that point were so pale and pasty
 
I never understood that either, when I was a little kid I couldn't understand why the "white" supremacists hated Jews when all the Jewsish people I had seen/met at that point were so pale and pasty
My own pet answer is that we are one somewhat non-conforming group that is hard to demonize on the merits. We obey the laws. We work. Our children go to school. Somehow we get into leadership positions. And yet we won't accept Jesus Christ.

Other minority groups are easy to demonize. But we have no 9/11's under our belt, or street crime, or much teen pregnancy though it does happen.
 
I never understood that either, when I was a little kid I couldn't understand why the "white" supremacists hated Jews when all the Jewsish people I had seen/met at that point were so pale and pasty

If anything, they hate them more than racial minorities. It's why David Duke feigns concern or support for Palestinians. He doesn't give a single rats ass about them, he just hates Jews more. Years ago I joined a, basically, unmoderated forum (same year as I joined DP, in fact) and every thread ended with bashing Jews regardless of the actual topic.
 
Do you have a source for that? Most information I've found suggests that there are black immigrants in Japan, though it has had very restrictive immigration policies in general with <2% of its population born overseas.

What's it like to be black in Japan? - BBC News
Thanks for the info. It's still a distinction without much of a difference. As a practical matter Japan and many other affluent countries lack a mixing issue. They have truly insignificant numbers of blacks and Jews. And for that matter Japan's population of Vietnamese, Chinese and even Koreans is minor.
 
The absolute hatred for Jewish people that exists is something I just don't understand. Is it jealousy? Scapegoating?

I never understood that either, when I was a little kid I couldn't understand why the "white" supremacists hated Jews when all the Jewsish people I had seen/met at that point were so pale and pasty

My own pet answer is that we are one somewhat non-conforming group that is hard to demonize on the merits. We obey the laws. We work. Our children go to school. Somehow we get into leadership positions. And yet we won't accept Jesus Christ.

Other minority groups are easy to demonize. But we have no 9/11's under our belt, or street crime, or much teen pregnancy though it does happen.
I had forgotten when I last responded to this thread that I read a book called Anti-Judaism by David Nirenberg. The book is over 600 pages and is a tough but worthwhile read. It traces Jew-hatred back to the time of Egypt. Egypt even had a counter-Exodus story that the Jews were more trouble than the were worth but I digress. He concludes that most Jew-haters through history never met an actual Jew but Judaism was a symbol of forces they feared, such as a consistent body of law, modernism, and cosmopolitanism.
 
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