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Conservatives/RIghtests, and White Nationalist vs Colin Kaepernik/Amazon/Google

Me neither.

I'm torn. I feel like a religious business owner shouldn't be forced to cater an event, or do something, that violates the tenants of their faith.

At the same time, however, if you open that door, you run into crap like what Google is doing, or businesses that discriminate on race, or sex.

I agree, but at the same time, you're comparing apples and oranges.

The baker's refusal to participate in the gay wedding has zero affect on the wedding.

Kolin Kaepernic is excercising his right of free expression. He's an ungrateful piece of **** snowflake for doing it, but it's his right and I support his right to do so. I think it's wrong if the NFL, or individual teams punished him for.

It was wrong (and illegal) for anonymous to hack a KKK website a few years ago.

I'm against any oppression of free speech. No one should have that power, even if it's legal to do so.

There's no agreement clause that comes with freedom of expression.
 
All my life I have seen people sit at football games during the National Anthem. Some of them were old, some injured, some covered with a blanket in cold weather, and some just didn't bother. No on ever said a word until Kaepernic. As for not saying a word, most of the time Kaepernic sat it out, there was a huge flag being carried on the field in violation of the flag code that defines the right and wrong ways to honor the flag. All you people wearing flag headbands to soak up sweat, or carrying flag handkerchiefs to blow your nose in should read that flag code every once in a while. Read the part about how you are not supposed to carry the flag in a horizontal position. Read the part about not letting it hit the floor or ground! Get two people to stretch a rope about 40 yards long and notice how it drops to the ground. You just can't stretch it tight enough to keep it off the ground. There is also a part in there about not presenting the flag upside down. These huge flags carried in a horizontal position are upside down to exactly half of the stadiums. Nobody protests that! The flag is important to me, and I guess in their own way it is important to people who blow their nose into it, but the flag code is also important to me...but not so much others. I remember when George W. was signing those little paper flags that people carry around and often drop to the street after an event. I complained that writing on the flag was a violation of the flag code and so did a few others. I suggested that George change the flag code to allow it. The president is the one who changes the code now that the Supreme court has ruled the penalty of law that came with it was ruled unconstitutional. George W. never changed the code, but he did stop signing flags! This is not my first time to speak out on this issue so I know what to expect. We have a flag and we have a well defined code to honor it. There is a way to change it, but none of that matters. The mobs thinks collectively and the mob likes their flashy flag decorations and gigantic flags. A simple flag carried on a standard or waving from a pole doesn't impress the mob. A Navy ship will never fly more than one United States flag, but the politicians and the car lots will fly as many as they can and as large as they can. The flag was designed to unify all of us, but politicians compete with each other to see who flies they most, and the news media keeps score! By code the flag is supposed to fly 24 hours a day at certain places, but from sun to sun at other places. When it is flown at night it is supposed to be illuminated with light, but I see flags flying in the neighborhood and on the streets without the illumination all the time. I guess the owners are too busy condemning protesters to bother honoring the code....or even reading it in most cases. Well, I've said my piece. I've said it before; I'll say it again. I don't expect much from the collective mind. The funny thing about a collective mind is that it doesn't know it is collective unless someone tells it.
 
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What is wrong with an all womens club or all mens, an Italians only, or blacks only organization?

Gov os different but the private se tor should remain free.

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You realize that in some areas, that mean "No niggers allowed", right?
 
You would need to show me first that it is the same people doing both things. Most of the time they are saying Google and Amazon SHOULDN'T kick them off, not that it is a free speech violation. If the same person says Google and Amazon are violating Free Speech but the NFL isn't, then they would be hypocrites. But it needs to be the same people, not just different people of the same lean.
 
How many Conservatives on here have said that Kaepernic should be denied his right to free speech?

Many on the left confuse conservatives expressing "disagreement" with certain speech, to attempts to "prevent" certain speech.

We don't (at least the ones I know here and in my real life) advocate for Colin being prevented from expressing his views, and that goes for anyone regardless of what their opinions might be. Everyone is free to voice or express their political opinions, but they also must accept that there may be consequences in doing so.
 
Sure...there are some that are happy CK isnt a QB in the NFL. There are some that speak out against his actions. SOME of those people speaking out happen to be black. Imagine that. Everyone is exercising their rights> CK exercised his rights. People are exercising their frights. What I find comical is people that dont know **** all about football claiming that CK is a great QB or even one deserving of being a starting QB in todays NFL and that he is being blackballed. There is literally no evidence of any of that. Black football players that have faced the man have said he simply lacks the talent to be worth the hassle. His last run a s a starter (1-11) gives credence to that but its not just his losing record but HOW he lost. He SUCKED last year. He couldnt hit open receivers, he ran when he didnt have to because ultimately that was his only weapon...his legs. He has been given looks by teams this year, only to shoot himself in the foot.
 
This is more of a general question

Why on this board in particular do I (at least seem) to see more conservatives/right leaning people in general, defending the right to free speech of White Nationalists, complaining about Google, Facebook and Amazon removing white nationalist (and other hate groups) from their websites. Google no longer including their websites as search results, Facebook removing their pages, and Amazon not letting them raise money on its system. They are private companies, not government owned or operated, yet I see people on this board stating Google is violating White Nationalists rights, that the government needs to regulate them.

Yet when it comes to Colin Kaepernick, whose entire protest was not standing up during the national anthem gets nothing but hate from generally the same people. He has not found a job as a QB in the NFL, yet by all accounts would be at the very least a good second string QB and did have some good seasons as a starting QB.

If the White Nationalist freedom of speech is being violated by Google, is not Colin's being violated by the NFL. If Google is to be regulated by the federal government regarding free speech should not the NFL.

I truly do not understand why people would rather defend White Nationalists and their message "Jews will Not Replace Us" over Colin's message of supporting BLM by not standing during the National Anthem

I will use Hawkey's phrase now

We used to be better then this. To which my question is when

Simple many people are simply biased and hypocritical to what they like, bigoted themselves or a bigoted message doesn't really bother them much.

With that im an independent and this is where i stand.

white nationalist, kkk, nazis
they are racist scum bags that get on sympathy from me and we'd all be better off without them. With that said I fully support their ACTUAL rights. They completely have the right to free speech. THe facts are though Google, Facebook and Amazon are free to remove them and other hate groups as long as it follows the law and doesn't violate rights. In this case it factually doesnt.


Colin Kaepernick
Im torn on him. He doesnt talk about the issue in depth so i dont know what his goal is. I completely respect his right to speech also. It might be misguided, again i dont know what his goal is. If it was to attract attention to his cause he is certainly doing that (of did that). As far as people judging him they are free to but assuming your judgment is right is silly because there are people right, left, center and in the military that are fine with what he did and vice versa. And lastly the NFL isnt not violating any of Collins rights.

in the end though your message is right if people are making the same claim about one and not the other its hypocritical
 
Me neither.

I'm torn. I feel like a religious business owner shouldn't be forced to cater an event, or do something, that violates the tenants of their faith.

At the same time, however, if you open that door, you run into crap like what Google is doing, or businesses that discriminate on race, or sex.

The thing is no religious business owner is being "forced" though

They are free to not open a businesses that has rules that EVERYBODY must follow and they object too, design their business to avoid such things or run a private practice business. People CHOOSING and AGREEING to run a businesses that has rules/laws that regulate it then CHOOSE to break theose rules.laws and or violate the rights of others i have zero remorse for. They have nobody to blame but themselves. This is why the vast majority of religious buinssess dont find themselves in trouble because they arent morons who choose to break the law and violate the rights of others.

Not saying you Kevin but people seem to forget the super vast majority of religious business operate just fine . . why is that? Because the majority are honest, civil, law abiding people.
 
The thing is no religious business owner is being "forced" though

They are free to not open a businesses...

Certainly they are being forced.

Here's what liberal Dave Rubin, formerly of the Young Turks network and who recently married his gay partner, had to say on the subject.

It skips right to the relevant portion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiVQ8vrGA_8&t=120s
 
Many on the left confuse conservatives expressing "disagreement" with certain speech, to attempts to "prevent" certain speech.

We don't (at least the ones I know here and in my real life) advocate for Colin being prevented from expressing his views, and that goes for anyone regardless of what their opinions might be. Everyone is free to voice or express their political opinions, but they also must accept that there may be consequences in doing so.

Liberals don't understand that there's a difference between "tolerance" and "acceptance".
 
The thing is no religious business owner is being "forced" though

They are free to not open a businesses that has rules that EVERYBODY must follow and they object too, design their business to avoid such things or run a private practice business. People CHOOSING and AGREEING to run a businesses that has rules/laws that regulate it then CHOOSE to break theose rules.laws and or violate the rights of others i have zero remorse for. They have nobody to blame but themselves. This is why the vast majority of religious buinssess dont find themselves in trouble because they arent morons who choose to break the law and violate the rights of others.

Not saying you Kevin but people seem to forget the super vast majority of religious business operate just fine . . why is that? Because the majority are honest, civil, law abiding people.

In the 1700 hundreds Americans were free to keep quiet about the government. They weren't having their free speech stifled.
 
1.) Certainly they are being forced.

Here's what liberal Dave Rubin, formerly of the Young Turks network and who recently married his gay partner, had to say on the subject.

It skips right to the relevant portion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiVQ8vrGA_8&t=120s
LOL i have no idea why people lie about this

1.) nope they factually are not :shrug:
2.) his factually wrong "feelings" are meaningless to facts
 
This is more of a general question

Why on this board in particular do I (at least seem) to see more conservatives/right leaning people in general, defending the right to free speech of White Nationalists, complaining about Google, Facebook and Amazon removing white nationalist (and other hate groups) from their websites. Google no longer including their websites as search results, Facebook removing their pages, and Amazon not letting them raise money on its system. They are private companies, not government owned or operated, yet I see people on this board stating Google is violating White Nationalists rights, that the government needs to regulate them.

Yet when it comes to Colin Kaepernick, whose entire protest was not standing up during the national anthem gets nothing but hate from generally the same people. He has not found a job as a QB in the NFL, yet by all accounts would be at the very least a good second string QB and did have some good seasons as a starting QB.

If the White Nationalist freedom of speech is being violated by Google, is not Colin's being violated by the NFL. If Google is to be regulated by the federal government regarding free speech should not the NFL.

I truly do not understand why people would rather defend White Nationalists and their message "Jews will Not Replace Us" over Colin's message of supporting BLM by not standing during the National Anthem

I will use Hawkey's phrase now

We used to be better then this. To which my question is when

Kapernick was close to being hired this season until his girlfriend blew it for him with a racist tweet. So blame her, not people like me who don't like to see politics and sports mixed.

Kapernick was stupid. He didn't leave himself an out. He could have kneeled once, then moved on. Instead, he rubbed it in and with his idiots sense of timing, the 49ers season was well on its way to the crapper.
 
LOL i have no idea why people lie about this

1.) nope they factually are not :shrug:
2.) his factually wrong "feelings" are meaningless to facts

Yes, they are being forced to under threat of costly legal action and financial penalties imposed through the courts, that could very well bankrupt their business. When the government says that you either comply, or face possible bankruptcy and the loss of your business, that's the government applying force.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with individual liberty and religious freedom, but those are 2 of the core values that the country was founded upon.

.
 
1.)Yes, they are being forced to under threat of costly legal action and financial penalties imposed through the courts, that could very well bankrupt their business. When the government says that you either comply, or face possible bankruptcy and the loss of your business, that's the government applying force.

2.) I'm sorry that you don't agree with individual liberty and religious freedom, but those are 2 of the core values that the country was founded upon.

.

1.) 100% factually false since they CHOOSE that type of businesses and AGREED to the rules and regulations that run it. Nobody was FORCED to run that type of buinsess with those typres of rules. You posting a lie and claiming there was force will never make true. Facts prove you wrong every time lol

Simply solution to not facing legal financial penalties dont CHOOSE to break the law and be a criminal like the morons you are taking about did.

These morons have to be a special kind of stupid to CHOOSE to open up a public access buinsess, AGREE to the laws and rights that regulate that business then CHOOSE to break the laws and be criminals and THINK they are going to get special treatment different from everybody else based on their "feelings" and also THINK they are above the law and get to violate the rights of others. What dummies

2.) you dont have to apologize for being factually wrong, people make mistakes and your claims are factually wrong as proven. If you disagree simply prove your lie. Post ONE fact that supports it and make it true. Post a person being forced to open a public access business, then forced to break the law . . .go ahead . . ill wait

(hint you cant do it because you claim is a lie :) )
 
1.) 100% factually false since they CHOOSE that type of businesses and AGREED to the rules and regulations that run it. Nobody was FORCED to run that type of buinsess with those typres of rules. You posting a lie and claiming there was force will never make true. Facts prove you wrong every time lol

Simply solution to not facing legal financial penalties dont CHOOSE to break the law and be a criminal like the morons you are taking about did.

These morons have to be a special kind of stupid to CHOOSE to open up a public access buinsess, AGREE to the laws and rights that regulate that business then CHOOSE to break the laws and be criminals and THINK they are going to get special treatment different from everybody else based on their "feelings" and also THINK they are above the law and get to violate the rights of others. What dummies

2.) you dont have to apologize for being factually wrong, people make mistakes and your claims are factually wrong as proven. If you disagree simply prove your lie. Post ONE fact that supports it and make it true. Post a person being forced to open a public access business, then forced to break the law . . .go ahead . . ill wait

(hint you cant do it because you claim is a lie :) )
Im not sure what you mean by a public acess business. Can you provide me an example of one that is not and rxplain why its not?

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Im not sure what you mean by a public acess business. Can you provide me an example of one that is not and rxplain why its not?

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A business that public accommodation applies too.
DO you honestly have no idea what that means? Have you never discussed this topic before or any other illegal discrimination topic?

Here Il glad help you educate yourself:
https://www.ada.gov/ada_title_III.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_accommodations
https://www.justice.gov/crt/title-ii-civil-rights-act-public-accommodations

Public Accommodation
Generally, a public accommodation is any business that provides services to the public. Title II of the Civil Rights Act defines a public accommodation as any hotels, restaurants, theaters, or any business' whose operations affect commerce.

an example of one thats not would be a club, such as like an "Elks Club" or "Fireman's Club". A lot of online buinsess arent subject to public accommodation due to membership or reference only business.
 
Im not sure what you mean by a public acess business. Can you provide me an example of one that is not and rxplain why its not?

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Private clubs like golf courses. Some of which still have no blacks allowed policies. I believe Augusta got rid of that policy in 1990 when it came to members. But did allow PGA members who were black to golf during the tournament
 
1.) 100% factually false since they CHOOSE that type of businesses and AGREED to the rules and regulations that run it. Nobody was FORCED to run that type of buinsess with those typres of rules. You posting a lie and claiming there was force will never make true. Facts prove you wrong every time lol

Simply solution to not facing legal financial penalties dont CHOOSE to break the law and be a criminal like the morons you are taking about did.

These morons have to be a special kind of stupid to CHOOSE to open up a public access buinsess, AGREE to the laws and rights that regulate that business then CHOOSE to break the laws and be criminals and THINK they are going to get special treatment different from everybody else based on their "feelings" and also THINK they are above the law and get to violate the rights of others. What dummies

2.) you dont have to apologize for being factually wrong, people make mistakes and your claims are factually wrong as proven. If you disagree simply prove your lie. Post ONE fact that supports it and make it true. Post a person being forced to open a public access business, then forced to break the law . . .go ahead . . ill wait

(hint you cant do it because you claim is a lie :) )

Now we're back to the same old argument. The law states that her bakery can not refuse service to anyone based on their sexual orientation. No matter what the judge ruled in the case, the baker had NEVER refused service to homosexuals, including the one who took her to court. He was a customer of hers for more than 10 years, with full knowledge he was gay.

Even though your obvious hatred prevents you from ever admitting it, it's quite clear this wasn't a case of discrimination based on sexual orientation, because in the 10 years she knew the man, she never refused to serve him or any other homosexual patrons. Having a very long, established track record of never discriminating against, or refusing service to, any homosexuals who patronized her bakery over the years, makes it clear that her refusal of service in this case wasn't based on the customers sexual orientation, but rather a refusal to provide her services for an event that violates the tenets of her religion.

She didn't refuse to provide her services for a person, she refused to provide her services for an event.

.
 
How many Conservatives on here have said that Kaepernic should be denied his right to free speech?

Yeah, 40+ posts in and still not a single leftist can answer the question.

Kaepernic has every right to "take a knee," just as we have the right to not watch him. The NFL is ran by a bunch of PC leftists. No wonder they are losing viewers and attendees. The left screws up everything they touch.
 
1._ Now we're back to the same old argument.

2.)The law states that her bakery can not refuse service to anyone based on their sexual orientation. No matter what the judge ruled in the case, the baker had NEVER refused service to homosexuals, including the one who took her to court. He was a customer of hers for more than 10 years, with full knowledge he was gay.

3.) Even though your obvious hatred prevents you from ever admitting it, it's quite clear this wasn't a case of discrimination based on sexual orientation, because in the 10 years she knew the man, she never refused to serve him or any other homosexual patrons. Having a very long, established track record of never discriminating against, or refusing service to, any homosexuals who patronized her bakery over the years, makes it clear that her refusal of service in this case wasn't based on the customers sexual orientation, but rather a refusal to provide her services for an event that violates the tenets of her religion.

4.) She didn't refuse to provide her services for a person, she refused to provide her services for an event.

.

1.) there is no real "argument" your claim is a lie and factually wrong and thats been proven. Where has rules and laws that regulate she CHOOSE to get into ZERO force
2.) what one the law and rules actually say is there can be no illegal discrimination, the baker CHOOSE to be a criminal a break that rule. There rest of your claim is meaningless to the fact.
3.) Hey look now you are posting another factual lie that you cant prove lmao. Better yet your "feelings" have nothing to do with the discussion of ZERO bakers were forced which is the lie you got caught posting and cant support with any facts.
4.) she factually illegal discriminate.

SO now that those lies are proven wrong. Could you please back up your first claim of force. I mean we all know that my question will be dodged again because it proves your claims wrong but Ill ask it anyway.

Post ONE fact that supports it and makes it true. Post a person being forced to open a public access business, then forced to break the law . . .go ahead . . ill wait :)
 
...the law and rules actually say is there can be no illegal discrimination, the baker CHOOSE to be a criminal a break that rule.

Rules? It's the law that matters. You claim that the baker's actions were "criminal" and that he had engaged in "illegal discrimination".

So the question is, what exactly constitutes illegal discrimination?

Let's take the Colorado case that will be heard by SCOTUS later this year. Colorado law states that in places of public accommodation, "denial of service" based on a persons "Sexual Orientation" is prohibited.

Here are 3 facts about the case:

1) Over the more than 40 years Jack Phillips had been a baker prior to refusing to bake the same sex wedding cake, he was never found to have, or had ever been accused of, refusing service to homosexual customers.
2) Jack Phillips told the couple he would not bake a wedding cake for a same sex marriages because it violated his religious beliefs.
3) Jack Phillips said to the men that he would gladly sell them any other baked goods his shop offered, including making a birthday cake for them.


Those 3 factual statements clearly show that Jack Phillips didn't refuse to serve gay men, he refused to serve a specific event that violated his religious beliefs. The law prohibits businesses from discriminating against people based on who or what they are, but not from discriminating against certain ceremonies or events that they find to be religiously or morally objectionable.

Jack Phillips offering to make the couple a birthday cake, but not a cake for a same sex wedding, proves that his "denial of service" wasn't discrimination based on the men's sexual orientation, but an objection to the event they wanted him to create it for.

You can spin it however you like, but the government legally forcing a business owner violate their conscience and religious beliefs in order to conduct business, is not in line with the principals of freedom the country was founded upon. The left claim to be the tolerant ones in our society who embrace and celebrate diversity... unless of course you're talking about tolerance of religious beliefs or diversity of thought, then tolerance and diversity goes out the window, as your posts on this subject have demonstrated.

.
 
1.) Rules? It's the law that matters. You claim that the baker's actions were "criminal" and that he had engaged in "illegal discrimination".
2.)So the question is, what exactly constitutes illegal discrimination?
3.)Let's take the Colorado case that will be heard by SCOTUS later this year. Colorado law states that in places of public accommodation, "denial of service" based on a persons "Sexual Orientation" is prohibited.

Here are 3 facts about the case:

A) Over the more than 40 years Jack Phillips had been a baker prior to refusing to bake the same sex wedding cake, he was never found to have, or had ever been accused of, refusing service to homosexual customers.
B) Jack Phillips told the couple he would not bake a wedding cake for a same sex marriages because it violated his religious beliefs.
C) Jack Phillips said to the men that he would gladly sell them any other baked goods his shop offered, including making a birthday cake for them.

4.)Those 3 factual statements clearly show that Jack Phillips didn't refuse to serve gay men, he refused to serve a specific event that violated his religious beliefs. The law prohibits businesses from discriminating against people based on who or what they are, but not from discriminating against certain ceremonies or events that they find to be religiously or morally objectionable.

5.) Jack Phillips offering to make the couple a birthday cake, but not a cake for a same sex wedding, proves that his "denial of service" wasn't discrimination based on the men's sexual orientation, but an objection to the event they wanted him to create it for.

6.) You can spin it however you like
7.) but the government legally forcing a business owner violate their conscience and religious beliefs in order to conduct business, is not in line with the principals of freedom the country was founded upon. The left claim to be the tolerant ones in our society who embrace and celebrate diversity... unless of course you're talking about tolerance of religious beliefs or diversity of thought, then tolerance and diversity goes out the window, as your posts on this subject have demonstrated.

.

1.) it ALL matters no matter your feelings
2.) theres no question the people involved were found to be in violation, again your feelings simply dont matter to the facts
3.) more meaningless feelings of yours

all three are meanignless would you like me to prove it? suuuuuuure no problem.
A.)what about he hired women, gays or blacks for 40 years but NEVER made them a supervisor because they were woman, gay or black would that magically make it NOT make it discrimination? yes or no
your point A fails and it would factually be discrimination
B.) whoopty doo If he said he wouldn't hire women, gays or blacks because of his religious beliefs does it matter? nope
your point B fails and it is is still factually discrimination
C.) still meaningless, what if he gave the women, gays or blacks any other job he had but they cant be bosses because they are women, gays or black
point C fails because why? you guessed it still factually discrimination

4.) Factually 100% wrong as i just proved above,it shows he is STILL factually discriminating and your lies dont change that
5.) already proven wrong see #4 you are again PROVING you are severely uneducated about this specific topic or dishonest, pick one.
6.) no spin at all, all the points your made were just embarrassingly and factually destroyed
7.) good thing the government isnt doing that and you still havent provided any examples of such of the government doing that or views. Im a christian myself and the law totally protects me and theres no violation of rights or religion here. Try again.

SO here we are in the same place, facts winning and yo not able to refute them or provide any facts to support the lies you posted so ill ask you again.

Please post one fact that makes your lies true. Post a person being forced to open a public access business, then forced to break the law . . .go ahead . . we are waiting, thanks!
 
This is more of a general question

Why on this board in particular do I (at least seem) to see more conservatives/right leaning people in general, defending the right to free speech of White Nationalists, complaining about Google, Facebook and Amazon removing white nationalist (and other hate groups) from their websites. Google no longer including their websites as search results, Facebook removing their pages, and Amazon not letting them raise money on its system. They are private companies, not government owned or operated, yet I see people on this board stating Google is violating White Nationalists rights, that the government needs to regulate them.

Yet when it comes to Colin Kaepernick, whose entire protest was not standing up during the national anthem gets nothing but hate from generally the same people. He has not found a job as a QB in the NFL, yet by all accounts would be at the very least a good second string QB and did have some good seasons as a starting QB.

If the White Nationalist freedom of speech is being violated by Google, is not Colin's being violated by the NFL. If Google is to be regulated by the federal government regarding free speech should not the NFL.

I truly do not understand why people would rather defend White Nationalists and their message "Jews will Not Replace Us" over Colin's message of supporting BLM by not standing during the National Anthem

I will use Hawkey's phrase now

We used to be better then this. To which my question is when

Becuase of the difference between the law and private business and the difference between how one hate-filled is treated vs. how other (politically acceptable) hate-filled groups are treated.
 
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