• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

We need to do better

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,256
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
When Trump and Hillary are the only 2 choices our political system can produce for us, we are totally screwed. I bash Trump because he is the one in office. But Hillary would also have done a bad job. Don't get me wrong. I think both love America, they just have no idea of how to run the country properly. Trump is proving this in spades. Hillary would have proven it too, had she won. We need to do better next time.

For those who disagree with me, post your pro-Hillary and pro-Trump rants here. :mrgreen:
 
When Trump and Hillary are the only 2 choices our political system can produce for us, we are totally screwed. I bash Trump because he is the one in office. But Hillary would also have done a bad job. Don't get me wrong. I think both love America, they just have no idea of how to run the country properly. Trump is proving this in spades. Hillary would have proven it too, had she won. We need to do better next time.

For those who disagree with me, post your pro-Hillary and pro-Trump rants here. :mrgreen:

One question.. why do you think Hilary would have done a bad job? Did Bill do a bad job? Not saying he would be running the show, but why would his wife do it worse?

Other than that, yea you need better candidates, but that is hard considering the corrupt aspect of your political system.
 
Clinton and Trump were not the only two choices on the ballots. The reason that they were the only two viable choices was the voters picked the two of them rather than the others.
 
One question.. why do you think Hilary would have done a bad job? Did Bill do a bad job? Not saying he would be running the show, but why would his wife do it worse?

Other than that, yea you need better candidates, but that is hard considering the corrupt aspect of your political system.

President Clinton was a catastrophe that was gone before the bottom fell out of it.
 
Clinton and Trump were not the only two choices on the ballots. The reason that they were the only two viable choices was the voters picked the two of them rather than the others.

It is not just that. The reason those two where the top choices is because those two more closely represented the views of Americans.
 
When Trump and Hillary are the only 2 choices our political system can produce for us, we are totally screwed. I bash Trump because he is the one in office. But Hillary would also have done a bad job. Don't get me wrong. I think both love America, they just have no idea of how to run the country properly. Trump is proving this in spades. Hillary would have proven it too, had she won. We need to do better next time.

For those who disagree with me, post your pro-Hillary and pro-Trump rants here. :mrgreen:

The beauty of the American system is we get to vote for president every 4 years. Any problems with a president are temporary.
 
Other than that, yea you need better candidates, but that is hard considering the corrupt aspect of your political system.

There's really only two kinds of corruption, developed and developing world. There's not a real difference between any developed country compared to a developing country. I guess there's a third level of corruption, flat-out tyranny. Within each context, corruption increases as people are more distant from their authority (the larger the land size and population represented).

Denmark is 1/4 the size of Florida and has 1/2 the population. It's about the same as Dade County. At that level, corruption is easily addressed; county governments here being similar. The US government represents a land mass and population similar to that of the EU. You're like some local County politician ranting at the federal government about corruption, cliche.
 
Clinton and Trump were not the only two choices on the ballots. The reason that they were the only two viable choices was the voters picked the two of them rather than the others.

Well, true that, and I voted for Gary Johnson. However, what the 2 major parties produced is what it is, namely crap. LOL.
 
Well, true that, and I voted for Gary Johnson. However, what the 2 major parties produced is what it is, namely crap. LOL.

You can hardly vote for Johnson(or any libertarian) and then complain that crap got elected...
 
The problem is that people are afraid to vote Independent, third party, or write someone in because they know either a Democrat or a Republican will win, so instead of choose the guy they like the most, they vote strategically. I could have voted for Kasich or Rubio, someone I that aligned with me personally the most, but in the end I voted Trump to try and keep a Democrat out of office.
 
One question.. why do you think Hilary would have done a bad job? Did Bill do a bad job? Not saying he would be running the show, but why would his wife do it worse?

Other than that, yea you need better candidates, but that is hard considering the corrupt aspect of your political system.

Bill knew how to sell himself. He was a 'good' politician, but he made some horrible and consequential decisions (e.g. NAFTA, Telecommunications Act, Law Enforcement Act.) He was also fortunate to oversee a strong US economy.

That isn't to say I'd prefer Trump. I'd take either Clinton in a heartbeat over Trump.
 
The beauty of the American system is we get to vote for president every 4 years. Any problems with a president are temporary.

Not true. We are still feeling the effects of Reagan's policies.
 
When Trump and Hillary are the only 2 choices our political system can produce for us, we are totally screwed. I bash Trump because he is the one in office. But Hillary would also have done a bad job. Don't get me wrong. I think both love America, they just have no idea of how to run the country properly. Trump is proving this in spades. Hillary would have proven it too, had she won. We need to do better next time.

For those who disagree with me, post your pro-Hillary and pro-Trump rants here. :mrgreen:

Blame the sea of idiots out there that vote.
 
When Trump and Hillary are the only 2 choices our political system can produce for us, we are totally screwed. I bash Trump because he is the one in office. But Hillary would also have done a bad job. Don't get me wrong. I think both love America, they just have no idea of how to run the country properly. Trump is proving this in spades. Hillary would have proven it too, had she won. We need to do better next time.

For those who disagree with me, post your pro-Hillary and pro-Trump rants here. :mrgreen:
Hillary Clinton has her flaws, but many of them are vastly exaggerated by her opponents.

I agree with quite a few of her policy positions. Climate change, women's rights, minority rights, some foreign policy matters, most domestic and economic matters. She actually recognizes that government, if properly managed, can actually improve people's lives. The ACA would have been improved, instead of left twisting in the wind. Tax reform probably wouldn't have happened. We wouldn't have to hear about this "border wall" nonsense. There is no question that the response to Charlottesville would be different. We'd have better candidates for SCOTUS vacancies.

Politicians always overpromise, so there is no question that she wouldn't deliver every single thing promised on the campaign. E.g. I don't believe any politician can truly rescue West Virginia from its economic weakness, and it's unlikely any politician can truly defeat the rise of opiates (in particular, get rid of fentanyl, which is responsible for most of the overdoses). The only way to fix economic inequality today is to whack massive taxes on the rich, and pour those tax dollars into education for the poor. But she'd do better in terms of policy overall.

In terms of temperament: It should be pretty obvious from her tenure in the Senate and Secretary of State she can handle the duties of the office. She would have gotten along fine with our allies, she has a decent track record of working with Republicans, she certainly has a grasp of the issues and policies.

Differences from Trump. She wouldn't embarrass our nation on a near-daily basis. She doesn't fall for conspiracy theories. She would never have hired people like, or equivalent to, Bannon or Flynn or Gorka or Sessions, Priebus, "The Mooch," Spicey, $#!! DeVoss or a dozen other miscreants who have no business in public service. However corrupt people thing she is, she couldn't have held a candle to what Trump does on a regular basis. She would not have discussed top secret responses to North Korean missile tests in the middle of a freaking private club, next to private citizens with cell phones in hand argh argh

OK, I have to stop that part, or I'll end up grinding my teeth.

One other point. As dysfunctional as our political system seems (a result in no small part of the framers designing a vetocracy, and trying to make a central government that can barely enact change), the attempts to burn DC to the ground and wreck the status quo are utterly counter-productive and self-defeating. It isn't Washington that gets hurt, it's us. That wouldn't have happened if Clinton was in office.
 
The beauty of the American system is we get to vote for president every 4 years. Any problems with a president are temporary.

...really 2 years. If voters don't likewhat he's doing, him they can always make him a lame duck.

Of course Trump is a lame duck already, even with the GOP in control.
 
It is not just that. The reason those two where the top choices is because those two more closely represented the views of Americans.

I sincerely hope that is not true. Most Americans simply can't afford to work full-time plus spewing BS on the campaign trail and get the backing of the party elites needed to finance billion dollar campaigns. To say that they were the most popular of the choices that we were offered in the 2016 POTUS race I can accept but that is as far as I will go.
 
She wasn't as bad as the right painted her. That was one of the most sustained and successful smear campaigns I've seen in a long time.

Benghazi was investigated to death and she didn't actually engage in any wrongdoing there. The silly lies about her supposedly leaving consulate members to die were debunked ten times over, but people still believe them. Etc etc etc.

All they came up with was an email server, but (1) it was noted that the last several SoS's were comparably careless with protected info, (2) there was no indication anything was actually stolen, (3) the FBI said it had never recommended charges in similar circumstances and precisely zero of the people smearing Hillary ever proved otherwise - or even attempted to.

It was, as the right likes to say (but stopped recently, for some reason) a big "nothingburger." But it worked because it jived with the irrational smears of Obama. (All of which, when criticized, would inevitably be defended with lines starting with "but under Bush, the left.....")





The most you can say is that she often seemed rather soulless, taking whatever positions the polls had 3 weeks prior. Something about her delivery always felt phony. But then, that can be said of the vast majority of politicians.

She was a political pragmatist. She was not the monster some people seem to really need to believe (to justify their Trump vote to themselves, perhaps?).




Either way, I didn't much like her, but no, she is not equivalent to Trump. I think that in terms of actually accomplishing things and not embarrassing the United States on a daily or weekly basis, she'd have been much better than Trump. But she still wouldn't be the kind of President you'd stand up and say you were proud of, either.

But that's speculation. What we do know is that Trump is a thin-skinned manbaby who didn't have the slightest clue about how to get out of his own way until he hired Kelly to teach him - and even then it's only been a partial success. He regularly embarrassed himself, failed out the gate with his non-plan for "wonderful insurance for everyone", and accomplished little more than signing a stack of EO's that announce vague intent to do something in the future.

It looks like the only way he is going to get anything positive done is by working with Democrats out of a desire to seek vengeance on congressional Republicans for having embarrassed him so utterly on the health care front (and, soon to be, tax front). I'll take it, but I'd much rather have Hillary to criticize.
 
Last edited:
You can hardly vote for Johnson(or any libertarian) and then complain that crap got elected...

You sure can if the only other choices ARE crap.
 
The beauty of the American system is we get to vote for president every 4 years. Any problems with a president are temporary.

Unless the President does something like invade a gunpowder store of a country without an exit plan let alone a plan for filling in the void left by a toppled government. That's the kind of problem that can last a couple of decades easily. And now we've got rising tensions in the Koreas.

4 years is not a fair answer to the problem of having an unpredictable and highly volatile person sitting in the hot seat.
 
It is not just that. The reason those two where the top choices is because those two more closely represented the views of Americans.

I disagree with that. The candidates who are most popular with the American people are not always the candidates who win the primaries. Bernie, for example, was more popular with the American people than Trump or Hillary. However he was not more popular with the Democratic party.
 
She lost. Get over it.



Hillary Clinton has her flaws, but many of them are vastly exaggerated by her opponents.

I agree with quite a few of her policy positions. Climate change, women's rights, minority rights, some foreign policy matters, most domestic and economic matters. She actually recognizes that government, if properly managed, can actually improve people's lives. The ACA would have been improved, instead of left twisting in the wind. Tax reform probably wouldn't have happened. We wouldn't have to hear about this "border wall" nonsense. There is no question that the response to Charlottesville would be different. We'd have better candidates for SCOTUS vacancies.

Politicians always overpromise, so there is no question that she wouldn't deliver every single thing promised on the campaign. E.g. I don't believe any politician can truly rescue West Virginia from its economic weakness, and it's unlikely any politician can truly defeat the rise of opiates (in particular, get rid of fentanyl, which is responsible for most of the overdoses). The only way to fix economic inequality today is to whack massive taxes on the rich, and pour those tax dollars into education for the poor. But she'd do better in terms of policy overall.

In terms of temperament: It should be pretty obvious from her tenure in the Senate and Secretary of State she can handle the duties of the office. She would have gotten along fine with our allies, she has a decent track record of working with Republicans, she certainly has a grasp of the issues and policies.

Differences from Trump. She wouldn't embarrass our nation on a near-daily basis. She doesn't fall for conspiracy theories. She would never have hired people like, or equivalent to, Bannon or Flynn or Gorka or Sessions, Priebus, "The Mooch," Spicey, $#!! DeVoss or a dozen other miscreants who have no business in public service. However corrupt people thing she is, she couldn't have held a candle to what Trump does on a regular basis. She would not have discussed top secret responses to North Korean missile tests in the middle of a freaking private club, next to private citizens with cell phones in hand argh argh

OK, I have to stop that part, or I'll end up grinding my teeth.

One other point. As dysfunctional as our political system seems (a result in no small part of the framers designing a vetocracy, and trying to make a central government that can barely enact change), the attempts to burn DC to the ground and wreck the status quo are utterly counter-productive and self-defeating. It isn't Washington that gets hurt, it's us. That wouldn't have happened if Clinton was in office.
 
LOL yea maybe in alternative world.

Nope. In the world we lived in. But one needs economics to understand, what happened.
 
Well, true that, and I voted for Gary Johnson. However, what the 2 major parties produced is what it is, namely crap. LOL.

The produced crap that the majority of the votes for which the majority of the voters were willing to vote.
 
Back
Top Bottom