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No, Confederates were not traitors and just for the record

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Yup we always put traitors on stamps...lol
 
Bill Clinton signed legislation to make Robert E. Lee day a holiday.
 
Kal'Stang said:
You should read Zyph's post. Much more coherent and is factual, not hyperbolic nonsense that you have given out so far.
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It was literally the exact same thing as what I said, only laid out in more detail.
 
slick said:
'It's not up for debate, the Confederate forces were traitors' What?

I'll refer to two of the top echelon of our presidents after that war who have a different viewpoint:

Guess who Eisenhower , a hero 5 star general & always considered a top 10 president, had a picture most
prominently displayed in the Oval Office throughout his 8 years in office? Robert E. Lee.
Renderings of traitors are not prominently displayed in the oval office to my knowledge.

And how about FDR Remarking at the unveiling of a statue of General Robert E. Lee 1936.

'All over the United States we recognize him as a
great leader of men & a great general . But,
also, all over the United States I believe we recognize
him as much more than that.We recognize Robert E. Lee as one of
our greatest American Christians and one of our greatest American gentlemen’

Are traitors memorialized on US stamps? Robert E. Lee 5 times was, as was Thomas Jackson.
I'll take the side of FDR & Eisenhower any day as opposed to simpler minds.

As for 'Neither law makes a statement that Confederate solddiers were veterans of the US.'

Ever hear of 'Fighten Joe" Wheeler.

'Fightin' Joe Wheeler is memorialized with a statue in Capital Hall & of course deserves one.
A top confederate general he became longtime congressman from Alabama in the postwar years,
before he donned the US arny blue once again as a major general in the war with Spain.

The fact the government gave Wheeler a position of pretty high
command suggests the bad blood had begun to dissipate. Wikipedia also lists Fitzhugh Lee &
Matthew Butler as former Confederate major-generals who commanded troops in the Spanish-American war.
After the war, 15 Confederate Officers served as U.S. ambassadors or ministers to foreign countries'

Funny story about Wheeler, Even after entering the US army as a General fighting Spain, Joe remained thrue to his roots:
'Joseph Wheeler, a Confederate cavalry general in the Civil War, went on to serve as a major-general
during the Spanish-American war and forgetting his US uniform in the heat of a battle yelled "Let's go, boys!
We've got the damn Yankees on the run again!".
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Since by the definition of the word "traitor", Lee would qualify, the answer to your questions is "yes". Furthermore, none of the things you list actually matter as to whether the word "traitor" applies to some one.
 
Redress said:
Since by the definition of the word "traitor", Lee would qualify, the answer to your questions is "yes". Furthermore, none of the things you list actually matter as to whether the word "traitor" applies to some one.
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So you're hanging your hat on a flimsy lawyerly type argument even a mediocre lawyer wouldn't use, have at it!
Fact of the matter is your government does not consider them traitors!

As I said two of the top echelon of our presidents after that war who have a different viewpoint & I'll take the viewpoints of FDR &
Eisenhower any day as opposed to simpler minds.

Michael Shaara The Killer Angels as Lee marched northward

'It is an army of 70,000 men of remarkable unity. Though there are many men who cannot read or write they all spoke English.
They share common customs & a common faith & have been consistantly victorious against superior numbers. They have as
solid a faith in their leader as any army that ever marched. He is the most beloved man in either army. He marches north
know that a letter has been prepared by Jefferson Davis which offers peace. It is to be placed on the desk of Lincoln the day
after Lee has destroyed the Army of the Potomac somewhere north of Washington.’
Seems to me even confederate haters like you could be a little more charitable in an assessment of this fine leader of soldiers.’
 
slick said:
So you're hanging your hat on a flimsy lawyerly type argument even a mediocre lawyer wouldn't use, have at it!
Fact of the matter is your government does not consider them traitors!

As I said two of the top echelon of our presidents after that war who have a different viewpoint & I'll take the viewpoints of FDR &
Eisenhower any day as opposed to simpler minds.

Michael Shaara The Killer Angels as Lee marched northward

'It is an army of 70,000 men of remarkable unity. Though there are many men who cannot read or write they all spoke English.
They share common customs & a common faith & have been consistantly victorious against superior numbers. They have as
solid a faith in their leader as any army that ever marched. He is the most beloved man in either army. He marches north
know that a letter has been prepared by Jefferson Davis which offers peace. It is to be placed on the desk of Lincoln the day
after Lee has destroyed the Army of the Potomac somewhere north of Washington.’
Seems to me even confederate haters like you could be a little more charitable in an assessment of this fine leader of soldiers.’
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No, I am using this thing we call logic. Words have meanings. Those meanings do not change because some one does something unrelated to that meaning. I know, those are difficult concepts...
 
Zyphlin said:
You realize just because you don't bold something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. From your own quote



Per the law, the term "veteran" includes confederate soldiers only for the purpose of that section, and section 433....NOT in a universal or broad sense.
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nit picking
 
Tigerace117 said:
It was literally the exact same thing as what I said, only laid out in more detail.
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Then it wasn't literally the "exact same thing"

Sorry.....had to....reminds me of my daughter when she says it's the exact same thing, but a little different. :)
 
holbritter said:
Then it wasn't literally the "exact same thing"

Sorry.....had to....reminds me of my daughter when she says it's the exact same thing, but a little different. :)
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The basic point remains the same.
 
Redress said:
No, I am using this thing we call logic. Words have meanings. Those meanings do not change because some one does something unrelated to that meaning. I know, those are difficult concepts...
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Even after a limitless assortment of arrows pierce through the frail armor of your argument you still assign the likes of
Lee, Jackson, Forrest & Wheeler the attributes of traitors. Maybe because of the fact that Eisenhower hung Lee's portrait in the prominent
position on the oval office we ought to reconsider his high place in this countries pecking order.

I never was remotely interested in following Obama, but he did preside in the oval office & I wonder who's portraits graced the
walls during that time, for all I know maybe it was Reverend Wright I'm sure that would be more to you choosing.
 
slick said:
Even after a limitless assortment of arrows pierce through the frail armor of your argument you still assign the likes of
Lee, Jackson, Forrest & Wheeler the attributes of traitors.
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They took up arms against the United States. No one needs to "assign" them anything. Their treasonous actions speak for themselves.
 
slick said:
Even after a limitless assortment of arrows pierce through the frail armor of your argument you still assign the likes of
Lee, Jackson, Forrest & Wheeler the attributes of traitors. Maybe because of the fact that Eisenhower hung Lee's portrait in the prominent
position on the oval office we ought to reconsider his high place in this countries pecking order.

I never was remotely interested in following Obama, but he did preside in the oval office & I wonder who's portraits graced the
walls during that time, for all I know maybe it was Reverend Wright I'm sure that would be more to you choosing.
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No, I am not "assigning" them any attributes. I simply use the meaning of the word, and basic logic. What Eisenhower thought of Lee is irrelevant to the meaning of the word.
 
slick said:
'It's not up for debate, the Confederate forces were traitors' What?
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What nothing. Everyone who fought for the Confederacy was given amnesty for treason. If they weren't traitors, why was that necessary?
 
volsrock said:
The Confederates did not seek to overturn or conquer the government in Washington DC in 1861. They simply wanted to leave it. Just as the Founding Fathers did not seek to overturn or conquer the government in London in 1776. They simply wanted to leave it.



View attachment 67222406


If seceding and wanting your own country makes you a traitor then George Washington, Simon Bolivar, Thomas Jefferson, Mahatma Ghandi, Benjamin Franklin, Solidarity and all the anti-colonialists in Africa and Asia were traitors too.
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It's treasonous rebellion and there's only one way to excuse it. You have to win. Win, and you're a successful freedom fighter. Lose, and history will forever know you as a rebellious traitor.
Sorry if that sounds unfair. Need a safe space?
 
camlok said:
From above link: "We reached out to several historians, none of whom wished to be quoted on the record."

Typical frightened American historians. They always need to know the official line before they speak up.
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Typical European CTer, spewing ignorance and ignoring the facts. What a surprise. Not.
 
How complicated is this?:

Were Confederate soldiers citizens of the United States? Yes

Did Confederate soldiers wage war against the United States? Yes

Is it treason for a citizen of the United States to
wage war against the United States? Yes
 
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