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Trump to end DACA with six-month delay...

calamity said:
There is a statute of limitations on everything in this country except premeditated murder. Are you really comfortable with equating involuntarily being brought to the US as a child with 1st degree murder?
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Are you trying to equate being brought here illegally as a child to birthright citizenship or automatic permanent visa status?
 
He is the law and order President

That's not a bad thing but it seems only certain laws will be upheld. Only some people that break laws will goto jail. Only some laws are now somehow "legal"
 
Rogue Valley said:
Rescinding DACA would be the meanest of the Trump administration's mean anti-immigrant actions


Ending DACA would result in the possible deportation of nearly 800,000 children and minors. Many have never known a homeland other than the United States.


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It's not an anti-immigrant action.
 
An immigration law that is broken is not a criminal law, it's a civil law.

These people are not criminals. People need to stand up against this blaten racism. You can't expect illegals to protest in front of city hall, or for that matter, in front of ICE. Where is the empathy? The DACAs completely don't fit the profile of gang members.


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MrShangles said:
Are they illegal or not, it's the law.
We can't go by feelings, sorry but life ain't fair.


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Laws can be subjective, no? I find it extremely hard to believe people who argue "but it's the law!" have never broken a law themselves. But that's different when you do it, eh?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Are you trying to equate being brought here illegally as a child to birthright citizenship or automatic permanent visa status?
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"Path to citizenship" is nowhere near birthright citizenship or "automatic" permanent residence status. However, they should have a clear path to receiving green cards. After all, if we did not catch them 10 years ago, it's only right to forgive the crime and move on--we do it with rapists. Are you saying illegal immigrants are worse than rapists?
 
MrShangles said:
I thought I asked a simple question.

Are they illegal or legal? Simple yes or no


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At some point, regardless the crime (except first degree murder), the statute of limitations come into play. An act which was once illegal suddenly gets dropped and can no longer be prosecuted. We do this with every single crime, even rape, manslaughter, and bank robbery.

Why is a child who was brought into the US by his or her parents being treated worse by law than a rapist or bank robber? Why do you think that is right?
 
calamity said:
"Path to citizenship" is nowhere near birthright citizenship or "automatic" permanent residence status. However, they should have a clear path to receiving green cards. After all, if we did not catch them 10 years ago, it's only right to forgive the crime and move on--we do it with rapists. Are you saying illegal immigrants are worse than rapists?
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Not according to the current immigration law. The idea that border jumpers, or visa overstayers, deserve anything not afforded to those that obeyed the law is insane.
 
calamity said:
At some point, regardless the crime (except first degree murder), the statute of limitations come into play. An act which was once illegal suddenly gets dropped and can no longer be prosecuted. We do this with every single crime, even rape, manslaughter, and bank robbery.

Why is a child who was brought into the US by his or her parents being treated worse by law than a rapist or bank robber? Why do you think that is right?
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The crime (being in violation of US immigration law) is not simply entering the US illegally it is being in the US illegally - many of these folks may well have entered legally. You make it sound like everyone not legally in the country that can assert (proof being hard to come by for the "undocumented" 8 year old) that they entered "a long time ago" should be exempt from deportation.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The crime (being in violation of US immigration law) is not simply entering the US illegally it is being in the US illegally - many of these folks may well have entered legally. You make it sound like everyone not legally in the country that can assert (proof being hard to come by for the "undocumented" 8 year old) that they entered "a long time ago" should be exempt from deportation.
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That would be my assertion. Yes. And, it is easy to prove "Jose," who arrived as a baby, has been here for over 20 years. Witnesses, school records, medical histories, etc. are easy to verify.
 
calamity said:
That would be my assertion. Yes. And, it is easy to prove "Jose," who arrived as a baby, has been here for over 20 years. Witnesses, school records, medical histories, etc. are easy to verify.
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An 8 year old could not have been here for 20 years. Again, you ignore the point that being an illegal alien does not exist for some (arbitrary?) time period from one's date of entry.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Not according to the current immigration law. The idea that border jumpers, or visa overstayers, deserve anything not afforded to those that obeyed the law is insane.
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It's insane that a rapist who eludes capture for 3 to 6 years (in most states) should no longer be criminally liable. Why is "border jumping" worse than rape, robbery or assault in your mind? Please explain.
 
calamity said:
It's insane that a rapist who eludes capture for 3 to 6 years (in most states) should no longer be criminally liable. Why is "border jumping" worse than rape, robbery or assault in your mind? Please explain.
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Border jumping is not the issue - a foreign citizen being in the US illegally on any given day is the issue.

EDIT:

Twenty-seven states extend or suspend statutes of limitations if DNA evidence can identify a suspect, but these exemptions vary.
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Map: How Long Does Your State Give Rape Survivors to Pursue Justice? – Mother Jones
 
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calamity said:
How does a child brought here by his/her parents have a choice in the matter?

"34 states have statutes of limitations on rape charges." The DNA evidence thing is nice, but I see it has a number of loopholes too.
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One does not have to choose to be guilty of trespass they just have to not choose to get permission. ;)

Would you prefer to let the 8 year old stay and just deport their parents?
 
BillRM said:
It is an anti human action.
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No, it's not that either.

The issue with DACA is it's not law. It's a presidential edict that likely wouldn't pass constitutional muster. As it stands right now, this EO needs to go for the simple reason it overstep the President's authority.

If Congress decides to take this on, I would l like to see a provision that if someone brings a child here illegally and are caught at some point, the parents and the child should be deported if the child is a minor. If the child is older than 18, I would be okay if they were given a temporary visa so they could start the citizenship process behind everyone else that's started it legally. That means they have to wait for the process to work and pay all of the necessary fees. Additionally, they could never sponsor their parents or any other family member who was ever here illegally.

All,of that assumes they've never been in trouble with the law, have graduated high school at least, are gainfully employed and not receiving any government assistance.
 
Moon said:
All,of that assumes they've never been in trouble with the law, have graduated high school at least, are gainfully employed and not receiving any government assistance.
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Now why in the hell would you ever dream of kicking such a person out and by doing so reward another nation for our raising up to that point such a fine and useful person.

Footnote dreamers are not now allow now to be on any type of government support an as a group they add many billions of dollars to our GNP yearly.

Next why would you start them at the end of the line given they had done nothing wrong by their parents bringing them into the country as children and we already have a history of them being useful members of society.

Oh I see you are quoting Albert Einstein a man who we took in when he flee Germany.

All in all we had done damn well on average taking people in and adding them to our society including the son of the former head of the USSR who once stated that they would bury us.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
His answer was confusing. How does he think Trump's action will please his "racist base," simply by giving Congress six months to pass a law?

I'm also confused by how the disloyal opposition keeps claiming his actions to deport illegal aliens is "racist." Since the deportation efforts affect European, African, and Asian illegals too.

This is Nationalism (as opposed to Globalism), not racism. :shrug:
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The opposition will lobby congress to save DACA
 
BillRM said:
It is an anti human action.
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But what Planned Parenthood does ISN'T anti-human, right? Pretty sure it's the textbook definition of being "anti-human".
 
JoeTrumps said:
But what Planned Parenthood does ISN'T anti-human, right? Pretty sure it's the textbook definition of being "anti-human".
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No it pro the right of the one person on earth who have the right to decide if she is willing to risk her life and health to bring a fetus to full term.

Take note the anti abortion state of Texas does such a poor job of supporting the mothers and infants after birth that the infant mortality rate is the highest not just in the US but in the whole western world.

Yes indeed we care about fetuses but not so must the mothers and the infants after birth.
 
BillRM said:
No it pro the right of the one person on earth who have the right to decide if she is willing to risk her life and health to bring a fetus to full term.

Take note the anti abortion state of Texas does such a poor job of supporting the mothers and infants after birth that the infant mortality rate is the highest not just in the US but in the whole western world.

Yes indeed we care about fetuses but not so must the mothers and the infants after birth.
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I am from Texas. can you qualify that statement?

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Dirt Sands said:
I am from Texas. can you qualify that statement?

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No problem as it been reported by a number of major news outlets and such reports can be found by a google search.

Here is the first one that came up on a google search.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rate-highest-in-developed-world-a7204016.html

The US now has maternal mortality rates that are the worst in the developed world AP
Texas is scrambling to explain why it has suffered the sharpest increase in maternal deaths of anywhere in the US - a rate of mortality not matched anywhere within the developed world.

A new study has found the number of women who died from complications related to pregnancy doubled from 2010 to 2014. A number of observers believe the development is linked the slashing of funding for Planned Parenthood and other women’s health programmes by the Republican-controlled state government.

A report in the September issue of Obstetrics and Gynecology, found that after a modest increase in maternal mortality in Texas between 2000 and 2010, the rate of pregnancy-related deaths nearly doubled in 2011 and 2012- a trend the researchers found “puzzling”.


Activists say funding to groups such as Planned Parenthood has been repeatedly cut (AP)
“Still, in the absence of war, natural disaster, or severe economic upheaval, the doubling of a mortality rate within a two-year period in a state with almost 400,000 annual births seems unlikely,” the authors said.

“A future study will examine Texas data by race–ethnicity and detailed causes of death to better understand this unusual finding.”

Yet campaigners believe the increase is linked to a cut in funding for health clinics that were used by poorer women and members of the community.

Sarah Wheat, a spokeswoman for Planned Parenthood of Greater Texas, told the Dallas Morning News that many of the clinics that suffered a cut in funding acted as an “entry point into the health care system for women”.
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BillRM said:
No problem as it been reported by a number of major news outlets and such reports can be found by a google search.

Here is the first one that came up on a google search.
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Good qualification, thank you. It's what happens when they believe all the bull**** that they say. Texas elected some seriously far, far right wingers. If they could only link it to the second amendment. They are so fd up.

There are a number of states that are righting these kind of laws. Arkansas only has four abortion clinics. I wonder if it's happening there. Maybe others as well.

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