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Texas $20 Gal of Gas, $8.50 Bottle of Water

Hawkeye10 said:
If it were me I would try to remember, and tend to avoid spending any money there ever again.
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Back in 2007 or 2008 we had two gas shortages here in Georgia. The first time, the gas stations raised the prices but there was still gas to be found because people bought just what they needed to get by. The second time, we had these laws that kept them from raising the prices. We ran out of gas in days. There was none to be found.
 
calamity said:
What do you call being opposed to regulations on finance, worker safety, clean air and water standards, public schools, shelter, food and healthcare for the needy, etc?
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Now, which conservative advocates those things?
 
What if...? said:
Seriously?

I mean really.

Seriously?

We've been hearing survival of the fittest from the right forever.

Except when its gonna affect somebody's profits.

Then its socialism to the rescue.

Its always "I got mine, **** you" from the right. "Get a job. Bootstraps!" Etc.

Sheesh.
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So...you cant name a single one. That's what I thought.
 
haymarket said:
That is not at all true. I take many conservative positions as well as break strongly with the left on issues like taxes, drugs and the death penalty and other punishments.
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Ive been around here a long time and I cant recall you taking a single conservative position on anything.
 
Southern Dad said:
Back in 2007 or 2008 we had two gas shortages here in Georgia. The first time, the gas stations raised the prices but there was still gas to be found because people bought just what they needed to get by. The second time, we had these laws that kept them from raising the prices. We ran out of gas in days. There was none to be found.
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I understand that, and I dont forget that irresponsibly buying....hoarding....tended to predate the modern acceptance of Price Gouging, but see Abusers always justify their abuse. The practice should be to donate all windfall profits from gouging to charity if this is what we are going to do. I would rather all parties act responsibly, that we all worked on being civilized and encouraging civility.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I understand that, and I dont forget that irresponsibly buying....hoarding....tended to predate the modern acceptance of Price Gouging, but see Abusers always justify their abuse. The practice should be to donate all windfall profits from gouging to charity if this is what we are going to do. I would rather all parties act responsibly, that we all worked on being civilized and encouraging civility.
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That's just it, there aren't going to be any windfall profits. The convenience stores are going to lose their shirts. They are getting no resupply. Once they sell existing stock, they can close the doors. However, they still have to pay rent, utilities, taxes, etc. No convenience store was looking at this as the opportunity to bank big bucks. They were trying to mitigate some of the losses they are getting ready to take over this period.

Gas where I am has went up to $2.809 per gallon which is 40¢ higher than a week ago. Are they gouging or are they passing on the costs that the next tanker is going to hit them for?
 
Southern Dad said:
That's just it, there aren't going to be any windfall profits. The convenience stores are going to lose their shirts. They are getting no resupply. Once they sell existing stock, they can close the doors. However, they still have to pay rent, utilities, taxes, etc. No convenience store was looking at this as the opportunity to bank big bucks. They were trying to mitigate some of the losses they are getting ready to take over this period.

Gas where I am has went up to $2.809 per gallon which is 40¢ higher than a week ago. Are they gouging or are they passing on the costs that the next tanker is going to hit them for?
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This is true, but here is the thing......our ancestors regularly lacked things they needed and faced calamity but they decided that price gouging was beneath them, there were laws against it and shame on those who did it.....maybe they were right.

Maybe the main problem here is that we moderns are not good enough people.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
This is true, but here is the thing......our ancestors regularly lacked things they needed and faced calamity but they decided that price gouging was beneath them, there were laws against it and shame on those who did it.....maybe they were right.

Maybe the main problem here is that we moderns are not good enough people.
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I don't know about that, when I was a kid, in the 70's, my aunt paid $50 a sheet for plywood in Ft Myers when a hurricane was coming. You can bet she only bought what she needed to cover those windows.
 
Fletch said:
Ive been around here a long time and I cant recall you taking a single conservative position on anything.
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I am enthusiastically pro death penalty. This is hardly a liberal position.

I advocate a five point across the board tax raise for everyone including the poor. That is hardly a liberal position.

I am against drug use. That is hardly a liberal position.

I advocate a lifestyle which is like Norman Rockwell Saturday Evening Post sunday social conservative. That is hardly a liberal position.

Now I would not expect you to know every position I take on issues - but just the same I am hardly what you paint me to be.
 
haymarket said:
I am enthusiastically pro death penalty. This is hardly a liberal position.

I advocate a five point across the board tax raise for everyone including the poor. That is hardly a liberal position.

I am against drug use. That is hardly a liberal position.

I advocate a lifestyle which is like Norman Rockwell Saturday Evening Post sunday social conservative. That is hardly a liberal position.

Now I would not expect you to know every position I take on issues - but just the same I am hardly what you paint me to be.
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There's no need for you to defend your positions on the issues; this is SOP for GOPosters to box in DEMs.

Let them defend Ryan playing politics today with the debt ceiling, just before trump rapped his knuckles with a 3-month extension.

Ryan got away with extending the debt limit in late 2013 to go past the 2014 elections. DEMs won't let that happen again with the 2018s ...
 
KLATTU said:
Whew- tough to wade through that liberal word salad. Straight out of Sanders University. all the lw buzzwords and catch phrases.
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So basically, you have no actual argument to refute my position. Nice.

This has nothing to do with political or market ideology. It has nothing to do with socialism. People from almost every point on the spectrum are against price gouging.

For example, Ken Paxton is the Texas AG, a Tea Party conservative who has sued the federal government to push his agenda, and he's against price gouging.
Hurricane Harvey price gouging complaints include $99 for water | Fox News
 
Southern Dad said:
Back in 2007 or 2008 we had two gas shortages here in Georgia. The first time, the gas stations raised the prices but there was still gas to be found because people bought just what they needed to get by. The second time, we had these laws that kept them from raising the prices. We ran out of gas in days. There was none to be found.
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Which is why in those cases, a quota would normally be associated with laws preventing price gouging in emergencies
 
calamity said:
House passes sweeping bank deregulation bill - POLITICO
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"House Republicans on Thursday united to pass a comprehensive bill that would dismantle the landmark banking regulations enacted after the 2008 financial crisis."

We hosed the American people before, but THIS TIME we will handle our business just fine without regulations.

"Hensarling argues that the economy and consumers would benefit from his vision in which market forces rather than government regulation would keep the financial system in check."

Because it worked so well last time.
 
Visbek said:
So basically, you have no actual argument to refute my position. Nice.

This has nothing to do with political or market ideology. It has nothing to do with socialism. People from almost every point on the spectrum are against price gouging.

For example, Ken Paxton is the Texas AG, a Tea Party conservative who has sued the federal government to push his agenda, and he's against price gouging.
Hurricane Harvey price gouging complaints include $99 for water | Fox News
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My argument was already laid out in those articles. You disagreed. Nothing you said there changed my opinion. I stick with my position .End of discussion /

Who cares what Ken Paxton said. He's a politician looking to look good.

Virtue signaling. It's not just a liberal epidemic.
 
Zalatix said:
Wel

So yes, actual Most Holy Libertarians of the Most Holy Church of Laissez-Faire Libertarian Economics hath decreed that price gouging art most righteous and just. In the name of the banks, the market and thy stocks. Amen.
...
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More like commons sense and effective results trumping virtue signaling and ineffectivenes,
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/peter-mccaffrey/5-reasons-price-gouging-is-okay_b_3487621.html

"Price gouging" is a derogatory term meant to belittle. A more accurate description would be "sustainable pricing" -- pricing that ensures supplies are sustainable to meet the demand of future customers.

Distributing resources according to whoever lives closest to the store and can get there first isn't any more just than distribution based on prices that reflect need. Higher prices can be painful but at least they allow people to obtain the products they desperately need.

It's time we legalized the art of sustainable pricing to ensure critical supplies are readily available for everyone the next time disaster strikes.
 
calamity said:
"We don't need no stink'n regulations."



It sure is nice watching Texans coming to each other's aid. There is nothing like a free wheeling libertarian society. Is there?
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Nice to see you taking joy in the horrendous misery of others. Especially since it is all for politics.

Honestly...what is the difference between you and the price gouging people at this point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
blackjack50 said:
Nice to see you taking joy in the horrendous misery of others. Especially since it is all for politics.

Honestly...what is the difference between you and the price gouging people at this point?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Pointing out the many flaws with Texas is not taking joy in their misery. It's pointing out that much of the misery in Texas is self-inflicted.
 
calamity said:
Pointing out the many flaws with Texas is not taking joy in their misery. It's pointing out that much of the misery in Texas is self-inflicted.
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:eye roll:

As if they can control a ****ing hurricane. Spare me. You were absolutely giddy about being able to attack them over politics. Did you write for Charlie hedbo at some point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
KLATTU said:
My argument was already laid out in those articles. You disagreed. Nothing you said there changed my opinion. I stick with my position .End of discussion /
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:roll:

You haven't discussed anything. All you've done is made a declaration of your opinion, and utterly failed to address the claims.

We should note, this is not the first time we've heard this kind of heartless claim. It's pretty common around the time of a crisis -- and the commentators who propose it are typically nowhere near the affected area. Go figure.


Who cares what Ken Paxton said. He's a politician looking to look good.
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You should care, because it's an indication that this is not an ideological position. People all across the spectrum view price gouging as unethical.

Pam Bondi, Florida's AG and another conservative, is threatening to "destroy" price gougers this week.

South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson, another conservative, has activated SC's price gouging laws.

Georgia's Governor, Nathan Deal, is another conservative who is against price gouging, and has passed an executive order against gouging at gas stations.

Trump administration is against it
Bush 43 was against it

The list goes on.

We see this not just with disasters, but pharmaceuticals as well. E.g. criticism of Martin Shkreli, Rodelis (who jacked up the price of a TB drug by 5000%) and Mylan (maker of the Epipen) was not limited to the hard left; it cut across the political spectrum. Even Trump blasted Shkreli for jacking up the price of Daraprim.

Rejection of price gouging is not a partisan position. It certainly isn't a wholesale rejection of capitalism. Rather, the defense of price gouging demonstrates not only the lack of morality in the market itself, but a critical moral lapse in those who conflate "market efficiency" with "a virtuous method of setting prices and distributing resources."
 
Visbek said:
:r

Pam Bondi, Florida's AG and another conservative, is threatening to "destroy" price gougers this week.

South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson, another conservative, has activated SC's price gouging laws.

Georgia's Governor, Nathan Deal, is another conservative who is against price gouging, and has passed an executive order against gouging at gas stations.

Trump administration is against it
Bush 43 was against it

The list goes on.

."
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Let's see. Which one of those is a politician hoping to make themselves look good....................hmm..........ALL OF THEM!
I agrre that those conservatives need to read up on economics 101 and leave the phoney soundgood blathering to economic ignoramuses .
 
KLATTU said:
Let's see. Which one of those is a politician hoping to make themselves look good....................hmm..........ALL OF THEM!
I agrre that those conservatives need to read up on economics 101 and leave the phoney soundgood blathering to economic ignoramuses .
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:roll:

1) Anyone who has actually taken Econ 101 knows that the market is amoral, and that there are usually trade-offs between efficiency and equity (fairness).

2) There are quite a few economists who also decry price gouging. Not every economist on the planet lacks a moral compass.

3) Since when do conservatives make themselves look good to other conservatives by promulgating inefficient markets?


Meanwhile, you have done nothing to respond to the following points:
• Markets are amoral by design (their job is only to set prices and distribute goods/services)
• Price gouging does not magically summon significant increases in supply during a crisis
• Price gouging does not actually result in an equitable distribution of supplies
• Price gouging does not distribute supplies according to need
• Price gouging favors the wealthy, not the virtuous or vulnerable
• Price gouging, if allowed or encouraged, screws the poor and vulnerable
• Price gouging shreds the social fabric
• Encouraging price gouging not only ignores the value of volunteerism, it further degrades it by suggesting that a crisis is a welcome opportunity to screw the affected areas
• The inability to see the moral flaws inherent in price gouging displays a deep moral failure on the parts of those who advocate for it
 
Visbek said:
:r

Meanwhile, you have done nothing to respond to the following points:
• Markets are amoral by design (their job is only to set prices and distribute goods/services)
r it
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EXCATLY! that's the the beauty of it.

What's moral? Government? You think I want slugs like Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders,Trump, Or Hillary Clinton telling me what's 'moral"

Visbek said:
:r

s)
• Price gouging does not magically summon significant increases in supply during a crisis
• for it
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There's no such thing as magic. But if something is selling at a much larger price,I would argue that supply would increase. ( so would everybody economist who is honest I'd think)
Example: I'm a go getter from Austin texas, looking to make some money. I hear it's illegal to sell water fro more than 2 dollars a bottle in Houston. But I hear I could sell it for 10 dollars a bottle in Corpus Christi. Where would I most likely go?

Visbek said:
:r


• Price gouging does not actually result in an equitable distribution of supplies
•
it
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What does? low pricing? that only means means the people closest to the supply will get it ( and most likely stock up ) and the people who live furthest get nothing. Is that fair?

Visbek said:
:r

Meanw
• Price gouging does not distribute supplies according to need
•r it
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See above.What does? How would you recommend water gets distributed by need?Set up a commission to valiidate each person's need ?
But I would argue that high pricing does to tend to factor in need. The average person will think twice about how much water they buy if it's 10 dollars a bottles,buying only what they absolutely need.
Visbek said:
:r

Mea
• Price gouging favors the wealthy, not the virtuous or vulnerable
it
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So does low prices. They can buy more, wiping out limited supplies. Let's not pretend that doesn't happen.
But the pricing of just about EVERYTHING favors the wealthy over the vulnerable,doesn't it?
Visbek said:
:r
• Price gouging shreds the social fabric
• it
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A liberal nothingburger. Sorry. We're talking water , in a time of need. Nothing shred s the social fabric more than driving 50 miles to get water onlt find out they're all out becuase it went fast because the price was artifiallially low,

Visbek said:
:r

• Encouraging price gouging not only ignores the value of volunteerism, it further degrades it by suggesting that a crisis is a welcome opportunity to screw the affected areas
it
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You call it screwing the affected area, I call it providing much-need water( refere to our go-getter from Austin above)
Visbek said:
:r


• The inability to see the moral flaws inherent in price gouging displays a deep moral failure on the parts of those who advocate for it
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I see nothing moral in promoting laws that aren't effective only to make oneself sound good.( refer to our por friend who drove 50 miles to buy water but cam eaway empty-handed)
 
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