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Legitimate Victims

LowDown said:
I get the feeling that to you being the victim of a natural disaster means something different than it does to me. Perhaps it is the sanctity that the title "victim" has for left wingers these days that bothers you
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I'm not judging or bothered, I'm asking a legitimate question to try and better more universally determine who is deserving of pity and assistance. It seems to be about 90% of what the arguments around here boil down to.

LowDown said:
-- perhaps you don't want people who don't deserve the moral superiority that goes with being a victim to gain the title.
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That seems to be an issue that Republicans have not me.
 
MrWonka said:
I'm not judging or bothered, I'm asking a legitimate question to try and better more universally determine who is deserving of pity and assistance. It seems to be about 90% of what the arguments around here boil down to.



That seems to be an issue that Republicans have not me.
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A victim is someone who did that which was in their power to do, and still had a bad outcome.

A person who couldn't be bothered to do that which they could have done is, at the very least, partly responsible for their situation. Where the debate usually falls is on what is really in someone's power, and if ignorance is a good enough excuse.
 
MrWonka said:
So then I'll also ask you.... how do you feel about the people of Houston?

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/08/why-cities-flood/538251/

Why are we donating millions of dollars to these people? They obviously couldn't control the hurricane, but they can choose where they live can't they?
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Would you start this thread if LA were leveled by "the big one"? How about the Residents of the USA who live within 1500 miles of Yellowstone should that damn thing cook off?
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
A victim is someone who did that which was in their power to do, and still had a bad outcome.

A person who couldn't be bothered to do that which they could have done is, at the very least, partly responsible for their situation. Where the debate usually falls is on what is really in someone's power, and if ignorance is a good enough excuse.
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It's easy to completely dismiss the notion of personal responsibility. You just claim that whatever bad decisions were made were made because of some vague and ill defined form of oppression. For example, women are never responsible for their own bad decisions because patriarchy.

In the current identity politics, the only people capable of bearing responsibility for anything are white males. Ergo, in the identity politics bubble, white males are the only moral agents. Everyone else is akin to a child, a ward of the all powerful state.
 
Renae said:
Would you start this thread if LA were leveled by "the big one"? How about the Residents of the USA who live within 1500 miles of Yellowstone should that damn thing cook off?
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This thread is not directly related to the hurricane in anyway, nor was it started with them in mind. It's simply an example. I personally have no issue considering the people of Houston victims. In fact I myself live In Charleston, SC and there's a very decent chance that Irma could be pummeling us next week.

As a general rule, I'm usually willing to give people the benefit of the doubt because I don't think wagon wheels squeak at random, they usually have a reason. But Conservatives really like to victim blame whenever it suits them. Case in point how almost no Texas representatives voted in favor of hurricane Sandy aid for New York and New Jersey. This thread is primarily about trying to figure out what criteria need to be met, particularly in the eyes of right wingers before they are willing to have pity on others misfortune.
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
A victim is someone who did that which was in their power to do, and still had a bad outcome.

A person who couldn't be bothered to do that which they could have done is, at the very least, partly responsible for their situation. Where the debate usually falls is on what is really in someone's power, and if ignorance is a good enough excuse.
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So again I will ask you..... virtually every single person living in Houston had the power to move to another city further in land. Do you still consider them victims?
 
MrWonka said:
This thread is not directly related to the hurricane in anyway, nor was it started with them in mind. It's simply an example. I personally have no issue considering the people of Houston victims. In fact I myself live In Charleston, SC and there's a very decent chance that Irma could be pummeling us next week.

As a general rule, I'm usually willing to give people the benefit of the doubt because I don't think wagon wheels squeak at random, they usually have a reason. But Conservatives really like to victim blame whenever it suits them. Case in point how almost no Texas representatives voted in favor of hurricane Sandy aid for New York and New Jersey. This thread is primarily about trying to figure out what criteria need to be met, particularly in the eyes of right wingers before they are willing to have pity on others misfortune.
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If you live on the coast, and don't take at least prudent measures to prepare for a hurricane, I have zero pity for you. Same with people in Tornado Alley that lack a basement or shelter. That isn't a lack of compassion, it's reality.
 
Renae said:
If you live on the coast, and don't take at least prudent measures to prepare for a hurricane, I have zero pity for you. Same with people in Tornado Alley that lack a basement or shelter. That isn't a lack of compassion, it's reality.
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So if someone dies in a tornado or hurricane because they couldn't afford a home with a basement, or because they don't have a vehicle that would realistically allow them to evacuate then their death is their own problem? Poverty tends to make preparing for the worst case scenario rather difficult. When you're not really sure how you're going to eat next week planning for a Tornado or Hurricane that might never hit is kind of silly.
 
MrWonka said:
So if someone dies in a tornado or hurricane because they couldn't afford a home with a basement, or because they don't have a vehicle that would realistically allow them to evacuate then their death is their own problem? Poverty tends to make preparing for the worst case scenario rather difficult. When you're not really sure how you're going to eat next week planning for a Tornado or Hurricane that might never hit is kind of silly.
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Wow, can you take your scenario's to the most asinine extreme? How about newborns with meth head parents? Surprised you left them off your sob story woes them list. Let's get more absurd shall we? How about that blind deaf kid who lost their arms and legs left to die because their parents didn't care about them and hoped they'd drown! Huh what about him man??


reality check, there are people in situations who are unable to take care of themselves, those I have pity and compassion for. And there are those that do not take care of themselves through bad choices, laziness or what not, I have very little pity for them.

Shall we make a list of what mattes and doesn't? How much blood can you bleed in your sob story scenarios?
 
MrWonka said:
So again I will ask you..... virtually every single person living in Houston had the power to move to another city further in land. Do you still consider them victims?
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There are very good reasons to live in Houston as well though. Why are you dismissing them out of hand?
 
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