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Would Hillary done better than Trump has done at this point ?

This Trump fiasco is marginalizing America, telegraphing she is no longer a leader nor even a reliable partner.

As soon as Trump announced joining Syria & Nicaragua in pulling out of the Paris climate accord, China issued a statement claiming they would take the lead!

"Just a week after President Trump announced his decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement, China has already wrestled the mantle of leadership on climate change from the United States.

In a high-level meeting of energy ministers in Beijing this week, China played the convening role in bringing together countries from across the globe for a discussion on how to deploy clean energy."


Source: It Didn't Take Long for China to Fill America's Shoes on Climate Change

This is what happens when you don't lead; you follow, or the world leaves you behind.

Fine. Let China screw their economy for awhile.
 
This Trump fiasco is marginalizing America, telegraphing she is no longer a leader nor even a reliable partner.

As soon as Trump announced joining Syria & Nicaragua in pulling out of the Paris climate accord, China issued a statement claiming they would take the lead!

"Just a week after President Trump announced his decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement, China has already wrestled the mantle of leadership on climate change from the United States.

In a high-level meeting of energy ministers in Beijing this week, China played the convening role in bringing together countries from across the globe for a discussion on how to deploy clean energy."


Source: It Didn't Take Long for China to Fill America's Shoes on Climate Change

This is what happens when you don't lead; you follow, or the world leaves you behind.

Exactly. Countries around the world are discussing local trade deals, stepping up in our place. Deals like TPP are going to happen but with no input from the US. In a global economy like this, the entire idea that we can tell the whole world to **** off is insane. We have a president more worried about getting back coal jobs that even if we could get a fraction of them back wouldn't stay very long than building jobs and education and research in new and upcoming industries. It's a failure of epic proportions.
 
Fine. Let China screw their economy for awhile.

Look at hurricane Harvey. Climate change will hurt the economy far more drastically than lowering emissions. You can't be that shortsighted.
 
Fine. Let China screw their economy for awhile.
You won't think it's so funny when they own another former American-dominate industry, one of the highest growth industries in the world.

Keep giving away industries, and there won't be any left. That goes in spades for growth industries.
 
Why do you think Trump is the only one being treated like this and they didn't treat the Bushes or Reagan that way? Could it possibly, just maaaaaybe have something to do with Trump himself, his actions and his words, and not a media conspiracy?

The media since that time has changed as well. back then the media was a little bit less bias. Now they have their head so far up the liberal parties backside they are looking out their throat.
They were against trump from day 1 and sought to sink his campaign through media blitzing. He used that to his advantage and it failed.

now they are still doing it to sink his presidency. Even democratic senators are worried about all the leaks as they are endangering national security.
the media doesn't care because trump made fools of them during the election.

all of the lambasting that clinton was going to win etc etc ...
 
The media since that time has changed as well. back then the media was a little bit less bias. Now they have their head so far up the liberal parties backside they are looking out their throat.
They were against trump from day 1 and sought to sink his campaign through media blitzing. He used that to his advantage and it failed.

now they are still doing it to sink his presidency. Even democratic senators are worried about all the leaks as they are endangering national security.
the media doesn't care because trump made fools of them during the election.

all of the lambasting that clinton was going to win etc etc ...

So do you think it has nothing to do with Trump himself and that Americans would treat any Republican with as much animosity because they're all brainwashed shills?
 
Why do you think Trump is the only one being treated like this and they didn't treat the Bushes or Reagan that way? Could it possibly, just maaaaaybe have something to do with Trump himself, his actions and his words, and not a media conspiracy?

The answer is clear. Trump is not a bought and paid for party puppet of the rich and powerful that own both parties and most of the news in this country. He was never supposed to win. They started to attack Trump when he destroyed party puppet after party puppet of the republican party. The were sure Hillary would beat him in one of the most decidedly lopsided election in history. But the people decided other wise. Now the rich and powerful are using their media and both parties to keep Trump from accomplishing anything he promised the people of this country who elected him. From the Russian witch hunt to obstructing the witch hunt when it has so far proven nothing.

As far as the thread goes Hillary would have done a lot more for the rich and powerful and the special interest who funded her and her party as well as made her rich by bribing I mean paying to listen to her and Bill talk. Of course since they can no longer do anything for the rich and powerful it seems no one wants to pay anything to hear them talk.
 
I'm not sure about that. When she lost the election, the influence peddling income took a nose dive.

We are talking about "if she had won".

I think it would have ramped up into overdrive.
 
This Trump fiasco is marginalizing America, telegraphing she is no longer a leader nor even a reliable partner.

As soon as Trump announced joining Syria & Nicaragua in pulling out of the Paris climate accord, China issued a statement claiming they would take the lead!

"Just a week after President Trump announced his decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement, China has already wrestled the mantle of leadership on climate change from the United States.

In a high-level meeting of energy ministers in Beijing this week, China played the convening role in bringing together countries from across the globe for a discussion on how to deploy clean energy."


Source: It Didn't Take Long for China to Fill America's Shoes on Climate Change

This is what happens when you don't lead; you follow, or the world leaves you behind.

I agree with Trump that we shouldn't follow "the world" into a bad deal.
 
The answer is clear. Trump is not a bought and paid for party puppet of the rich and powerful that own both parties and most of the news in this country. He was never supposed to win. They started to attack Trump when he destroyed party puppet after party puppet of the republican party. The were sure Hillary would beat him in one of the most decidedly lopsided election in history. But the people decided other wise. Now the rich and powerful are using their media and both parties to keep Trump from accomplishing anything he promised the people of this country who elected him. From the Russian witch hunt to obstructing the witch hunt when it has so far proven nothing.

As far as the thread goes Hillary would have done a lot more for the rich and powerful and the special interest who funded her and her party as well as made her rich by bribing I mean paying to listen to her and Bill talk. Of course since they can no longer do anything for the rich and powerful it seems no one wants to pay anything to hear them talk.

Lol, so yes, you subscribe to the idea that Trump is just a righteous and innocent man who's being unfairly treated. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with being absolutely unpalatable and revolting to the vast majority Americans, it's all an establishment conspiracy. :cuckoo:
 
Exactly. Countries around the world are discussing local trade deals, stepping up in our place. Deals like TPP are going to happen but with no input from the US. In a global economy like this, the entire idea that we can tell the whole world to **** off is insane. We have a president more worried about getting back coal jobs that even if we could get a fraction of them back wouldn't stay very long than building jobs and education and research in new and upcoming industries. It's a failure of epic proportions.

Actually, the entire world needs our trade. While they are locked into their "global" deals, we are free to negotiate without all the restrictions they've placed upon themselves...like climate change.
 
Exactly. Countries around the world are discussing local trade deals, stepping up in our place. Deals like TPP are going to happen but with no input from the US. In a global economy like this, the entire idea that we can tell the whole world to **** off is insane. We have a president more worried about getting back coal jobs that even if we could get a fraction of them back wouldn't stay very long than building jobs and education and research in new and upcoming industries. It's a failure of epic proportions.
And not only is solar energy generation employing more Americans than coal generation, it is a high growth industry where America can be a leader and reap the spoils! Trump is throwing it all away!


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Source: Bloomberg News: Solar, Wind Industries Pitch Job Growth to New Administration
 
Perhaps.

But I would never underestimate the crass greed of the GOP ...

I mean, let's not pretend that isn't a major motivator of the DNC either. They both are out there gathering the corporate sponsorship. And speaking of crass greed, I wonder how much money Clinton will make on her "How I ****ed up in the hardest way possible" book tour.
 
I mean, let's not pretend that isn't a major motivator of the DNC either. They both are out there gathering the corporate sponsorship. And speaking of crass greed, I wonder how much money Clinton will make on her "How I ****ed up in the hardest way possible" book tour.
I suspect not much at all ... :mrgreen:
 
So do you think it has nothing to do with Trump himself and that Americans would treat any Republican with as much animosity because they're all brainwashed shills?

That is hardly an excuse for acting like the parody of a never ending ****storm.
 
If she can get the seats filled.

I can't imagine her book becoming a big seller. I see her as a 'has been'.

I fear that she is trying to remain in the lime light to make another run. She is a has been. Anyone who lost to Trump is a has been. They should all get out of the way. The DNC should look at itself and try to figure out why they lost to Trump of all people. It has to do with status quo Republocrat trends and rigging primaries so that their Corporate Candidate comes through. But I don't know if they will learn any sort of lesson. Likely, they'll let Trump go on being Trump and hope he pisses off enough people that folk will vote D no matter what come next election.
 
We had a choice between an outsider blowhard who didn't know what he thought he knew, and an utterly corrupt insider whose agenda could be summed up in three words: "me, me, me".

There were no good choices. I chose what seemed "less bad". I still think I chose correctly.
 
How is taking leadership in a high job growth industry a bad deal?

The part where 3 billion US dollars would be donated to underdeveloped countries. It can be argued that America should pay due to their role in producing CO2 but it is a valid argument that it is a bad deal for the US.

If CO2 is the #1 threat to humanity then why is Nuclear not used as an alternative? While Nuclear has its own issues and potential problems, if CO2 is as big as a threat as many seem to think then switching to a source that can both provide sustainable power and release 0 CO2 should be the obvious choice at least until other methods become viable.
 
All true except that the Germans justified solar subsidies the same way. Now they paid the subsidies and China has the jobs last I looked. ;)
I can't speak to Germany's subsidies, but believe that being the technological leader defining the technology and standards can't be a bad thing.
 
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