• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The wall

P

prometeus

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
27,656
Reaction score
12,050
Location
Over the edge...
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Only dead people and the Martians have not heard about Trump's wall and the countless times he said that Mexico will pay for it.
Having said that, and acknowledging that there are instances where a candidate promises something and then does everything in his/her power to keep that promise and for reasons beyond his/her control fails, what I want to know what exactly did Trump do to have Mexico pay for the wall?
Was there anything else beyond asking Nieto: "Enrique you want to pay for it?" "No?" "OK, but it makes me look bad."
What steps were taken to make Mexico pay for the wall? What was the premise of the negotiation and who was negotiating it? Anyone have any clues?
 
The entire wall thing is just so ****ing idiotic.

And you gotta love how Trump supporters just completely brush off the fact he lied about the fact that Mexico would pay for the wall (Knowing full well they would NEVER do so), but during the campaign they blindly cheered him on for saying it.

And then even worse when it became crystal that the Mexicans were never going to do so, proposing some pretty crazy **** to push Mexico to pay for it, but which would ironically harm the Mexican economy causing even more, wall or not, illegal immigrants to enter America.

The wall would be an expensive, useless monument to utter stupidity.
 
prometeus said:
Only dead people and the Martians have not heard about Trump's wall and the countless times he said that Mexico will pay for it.
Having said that, and acknowledging that there are instances where a candidate promises something and then does everything in his/her power to keep that promise and for reasons beyond his/her control fails, what I want to know what exactly did Trump do to have Mexico pay for the wall?
Was there anything else beyond asking Nieto: "Enrique you want to pay for it?" "No?" "OK, but it makes me look bad."
What steps were taken to make Mexico pay for the wall? What was the premise of the negotiation and who was negotiating it? Anyone have any clues?
Click to expand...

To make Mexico pay for the wall you say here is tariff, when you pay us for our wall we will lower tariff, but they don''t have the balls.
 
prometeus said:
Only dead people and the Martians have not heard about Trump's wall and the countless times he said that Mexico will pay for it.
Having said that, and acknowledging that there are instances where a candidate promises something and then does everything in his/her power to keep that promise and for reasons beyond his/her control fails, what I want to know what exactly did Trump do to have Mexico pay for the wall?
Was there anything else beyond asking Nieto: "Enrique you want to pay for it?" "No?" "OK, but it makes me look bad."
What steps were taken to make Mexico pay for the wall? What was the premise of the negotiation and who was negotiating it? Anyone have any clues?
Click to expand...

When you hold all the trading cards face up (that's us) then you get to divvy them out as you see fit. (That's Mexico.) You didn't expect them to write a check, did you?
 
the-wall.jpg
 
Exquisitor said:
To make Mexico pay for the wall you say here is tariff, when you pay us for our wall we will lower tariff, but they don''t have the balls.
Click to expand...

Trump did propose a tariff to pay for the wall. The idea was shot down when it was pointed out that a tariff would simply raise the price of Mexican imports. So the tariff would actually be paid by American consumers. Nice try though.

The truth is that there is no way that Trump can bully Mexico into paying for the wall. It was a stupid idea from beginning to end.
 
MaggieD said:
When you hold all the trading cards face up (that's us) then you get to divvy them out as you see fit. (That's Mexico.) You didn't expect them to write a check, did you?
Click to expand...

Don did.
 
prometeus said:
Only dead people and the Martians have not heard about Trump's wall and the countless times he said that Mexico will pay for it.
Having said that, and acknowledging that there are instances where a candidate promises something and then does everything in his/her power to keep that promise and for reasons beyond his/her control fails, what I want to know what exactly did Trump do to have Mexico pay for the wall?
Was there anything else beyond asking Nieto: "Enrique you want to pay for it?" "No?" "OK, but it makes me look bad."
What steps were taken to make Mexico pay for the wall? What was the premise of the negotiation and who was negotiating it? Anyone have any clues?
Click to expand...


Excuse me sir I am the current resident Martian and am THE appointed spokes Martian. Us Martians have indeed heard of the wall and we approve. Walls are good, us Martians like them, they are good for keeping the riff raff out, especially Warner Brothers ducks and bunnies. The Martians have spoken. Listen or be zapped with our Acme Super Duper Sized Killo Zap, zap gun. All hail Mars.

:aliens2: :aliens3:
 
Jetboogieman said:
The entire wall thing is just so ****ing idiotic.

And you gotta love how Trump supporters just completely brush off the fact he lied about the fact that Mexico would pay for the wall (Knowing full well they would NEVER do so), but during the campaign they blindly cheered him on for saying it.

And then even worse when it became crystal that the Mexicans were never going to do so, proposing some pretty crazy **** to push Mexico to pay for it, but which would ironically harm the Mexican economy causing even more, wall or not, illegal immigrants to enter America.

The wall would be an expensive, useless monument to utter stupidity.
Click to expand...

We have plenty of those, what's one more in the scheme of things?
 
MaggieD said:
When you hold all the trading cards face up (that's us) then you get to divvy them out as you see fit. (That's Mexico.) You didn't expect them to write a check, did you?
Click to expand...

In one statement Trump made, he did make that suggestion

That Mexico would face (I cant remember exactly) I believe a large tax on remittances from Mexicans working in the US and sending money back to Mexico. Which would not occur if Mexico made a one time payment to pay for the wall of a few billion dollars
 
Overall

The wall is not a horrible idea

It will not stop illegal immigration or illegal border crossing, but it should cut at least illegal border crossing down some. Also having secure borders is one thing a federal government is expected to maintain. A wall by itself is not racist, or bigoted, it is just a tool.
 
How soon people forget...or, more likely, they never knew in the first place...Trump, during the campaign, TOLD everyone how Mexico will pay for the wall right on his campaign web page. It wasn't hidden. It wasn't in some cryptic language that nobody knows. Of course, the Mainstream Media didn't mention it much so there are a whole slew of useful idiots who don't know any better.

The fact is, Congress...if they had any intention of doing anything Trump and the people who elected him want them to do...could easily fund the wall, put into place the laws that would recover all that money from Mexico...thereby making Mexico pay for the wall.

This isn't rocket science, people.
 
PirateMk1 said:
We have plenty of those, what's one more in the scheme of things?
Click to expand...

It's too expensive. We could have hundreds of cheaper useless monuments to stupidity for that amount of money. Not to mention that I'd like a million or to myself as long as they're throwing money around.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
In one statement Trump made, he did make that suggestion

That Mexico would face (I cant remember exactly) I believe a large tax on remittances from Mexicans working in the US and sending money back to Mexico. Which would not occur if Mexico made a one time payment to pay for the wall of a few billion dollars
Click to expand...

I found the article in question

The proposal would jeopardize a stream of cash that many economists say is vital for Mexico’s struggling economy. But the feasibility of Trump’s plan is unclear both legally and politically, and it would test the bounds of a president’s executive powers in seeking to pressure another country.
In the memo, Trump said he would threaten to change a rule under the USA Patriot Act antiterrorism law to cut off a portion of the funds sent to Mexico through money transfers, commonly known as remittances. The threat would be withdrawn if Mexico made “a one-time payment of $5-10 billion” to pay for the border wall, he wrote.
Click to expand...


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...381214de1a3_story.html?utm_term=.2335e47e6c9a


You can say he was pandering, or that he did not mean it. But he did say that he wants Mexico to directly pay for the wall at least in the memo mentioned in this article

the actual memo
https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps...-plans-to-pay-for-border-wall/2007/?tid=a_inl
 
Mycroft said:
How soon people forget...or, more likely, they never knew in the first place...Trump, during the campaign, TOLD everyone how Mexico will pay for the wall right on his campaign web page. It wasn't hidden. It wasn't in some cryptic language that nobody knows. Of course, the Mainstream Media didn't mention it much so there are a whole slew of useful idiots who don't know any better.

The fact is, Congress...if they had any intention of doing anything Trump and the people who elected him want them to do...could easily fund the wall, put into place the laws that would recover all that money from Mexico...thereby making Mexico pay for the wall.

This isn't rocket science, people.
Click to expand...

What do you mean, saying that the mainstream media didn't report that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall??!!! Are you deaf? It was all over the mainstream news outlets. Of course nobody believed it because it was a stupid idea, but they sure as hell reported it.
 
bearpoker said:
What do you mean, saying that the mainstream media didn't report that Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall??!!! Are you deaf? It was all over the mainstream news outlets. Of course nobody believed it because it was a stupid idea, but they sure as hell reported it.
Click to expand...

They reported very little about "how" Mexico would pay for the wall and when they did, it was always about how it wouldn't work.

Please don't misunderstand my words and get bent out of shape over it, eh?
 
Mycroft said:
They reported very little about "how" Mexico would pay for the wall and when they did, it was always about how it wouldn't work.

Please don't misunderstand my words and get bent out of shape over it, eh?
Click to expand...


Could it be that that was because they didn't think it would work? They're not obligated to come up with ideas on how Trump could pull it off. That's his job. Which he hasn't done.
 
prometeus said:
Only dead people and the Martians have not heard about Trump's wall and the countless times he said that Mexico will pay for it.
Having said that, and acknowledging that there are instances where a candidate promises something and then does everything in his/her power to keep that promise and for reasons beyond his/her control fails, what I want to know what exactly did Trump do to have Mexico pay for the wall?
Was there anything else beyond asking Nieto: "Enrique you want to pay for it?" "No?" "OK, but it makes me look bad."
What steps were taken to make Mexico pay for the wall? What was the premise of the negotiation and who was negotiating it? Anyone have any clues?
Click to expand...

I do recall Trump asked the president of Mexico to just go along with him and not rat him out so that the wall would be built at taxpayer expense.

The whole idea is so freaking nutty your IQ would have to be in a single digit to support it. I can't believe anyone, right or left; Democrat or Republican; conservative or liberal; nazi or antifa would think the wall idea is a good idea.
 
Last edited:
Exquisitor said:
To make Mexico pay for the wall you say here is tariff, when you pay us for our wall we will lower tariff, but they don''t have the balls.
Click to expand...

Exquisitor:

Trump cannot slap tariffs on Mexican exports to the USA due to the North American Free-Trade Agreement, so this is not an option at the moment. If he did so the US would lose in the Dispute Resolution Tribunal and have to reimburse Mexico back the money plus interest. The only way he could do this is to withdraw from NAFTA.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Last edited:
The Resister said:
I do recall Trump asked the president of Mexico to just go along with him and not rat him out so that the wall would be built at taxpayer expense.

The whole idea is so freaking nutty your IQ would have to be in single digits to support it. I can't believe anyone, right or left; Democrat or Republican; conservative or liberal; nazi or antifa would think the wall idea is a good idea.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I can't find it in me to blame Trump for scamming people over this. A mark deserves what he gets.
 
Was the public always this autistic with slogans or is this a new thing?

Like I am serious, I've seriously heard with lets "Make American Great Again" adults ask in all seriousness when was it great?
Me not sure they are serious: "umm, it a slogan about going back to the foundational principles of prosperity and freedom."

Them(and this has been more than one): Why didn’t he say that then? Why is he lying?
Me: :shock:

So in regard to the wall and Mexico paying....it too is a slogan and exist only in marketing land.

Will we build it?
Maybe there lots of complications...trump has incentive to push for some form of barrier yes but the optics work either way as he giving a visible solution to popular political issue related to jobs: Why are there 11 million plus illegals with jobs when 43 million americas are on food stamps? Why are drugs and people able to jump through border security when we have to go 1 1/2 early for a plane flight or to drive in from Mexico? Why are their cities refusing to profile and target illegals? In the case of voter registration initiatives are illegals being sent mail-in voter cards if they fake a social security papers? Who is hiring these people and why are we so indiffernt? Most of all why are there so many and been able to be here for so long?

Will Mexico pay?
Maybe, there will certainly be some type of show which will at least spilt some costs in one way or another but more importantly it is about addressing the past political excuses used on the issue, which is that of the costs verse benefits. He is using it since Mexico should pay for the wall. So again its an optics win. If Mexico was willing to build the wall this wouldn’t be a thing. The point of the slogan is to ridicule the excuses to guard the optics position. The reasonable criticism is costs (as it attacks his own platform); pointing out the cost should be Mexico he dodges a bad postion by forcing people to admit their opposition is more their want for legalization (a opposing position he can beat)…

but but but…costs are still a thing. yes, it's skeptical reasonable position(a legit downside), that's the problem - its not an alternative solution. You can’t win if you not better than x. He’s forcing x. Ignore or do somthing is the paradigm it now exists: as long as he is the do somthing side he wins either outcome. That's why he said "and mexico will pay for it"

anticipated response based on past: “why is he lying?”

Me: :shock: (marketing your platform in politics is not deceptive, are people 5? ; making slogans and using tactics isn’t lying unless commercials are lies too - why can’t people distguish slogans from a policy direction?)
 
Last edited:
bearpoker said:
I'm afraid I can't find it in me to blame Trump for scamming people over this. A mark deserves what he gets.
Click to expand...

Since taxpayer money isn't seperated by who voted for whom, your money will also be used for the wall. Although he may have scammed others, all will pay the price for it.
 
Conaeolos said:
Was the public always this autistic with slogans or is this a new thing?

Like I am serious, I've seriously heard with lets "Make American Great Again" adults ask in all seriousness when was it great?
Me not sure they are serious: "umm, it a slogan about going back to the foundational principles of prosperity and freedom."

Them(and this has been more than one): Why didn’t he say that then? Why is he lying?
Me: :shock:

So in regard to the wall and Mexico paying....it too is a slogan and exist only in marketing land.

Will we build it?
Maybe there lots of complications...trump has incentive to push for some form of barrier yes but the optics work either way as he giving a visible solution to popular political issue related to jobs: Why are there 11 million plus illegals with jobs when 43 million americas are on food stamps? Why are drugs and people able to jump through border security when we have to go 1 1/2 early for a plane flight or to drive in from Mexico? Why are their cities refusing to profile and target illegals? In the case of voter registration initiatives are illegals being sent mail-in voter cards if they fake a social security papers? Who is hiring these people and why are we so indiffernt? Most of all why are there so many and been able to be here for so long?

Will Mexico pay?
Maybe, there will certainly be some type of show which will at least spilt some costs in one way or another but more importantly it is about addressing the past political excuses used on the issue, which is that of the costs verse benefits. He is using it since Mexico should pay for the wall. So again its an optics win. If Mexico was willing to build the wall this wouldn’t be a thing. The point of the slogan is to ridicule the excuses to guard the optics position. The reasonable criticism is costs (as it attacks his own platform); pointing out the cost should be Mexico he dodges a bad postion by forcing people to admit their opposition is more their want for legalization (a opposing position he can beat)…

but but but…costs are still a thing. yes, it's skeptical reasonable position(a legit downside), that's the problem - its not an alternative solution. You can’t win if you not better than x. He’s forcing x. Ignore or do somthing is the paradigm it now exists: as long as he is the do somthing side he wins either outcome. That's why he said "and mexico will pay for it"

anticipated response based on past: “why is he lying?”

Me: :shock: (marketing your platform in politics is not deceptive, are people 5? ; making slogans and using tactics isn’t lying unless commercials are lies too - why can’t people distguish slogans from a policy direction?)
Click to expand...

Mexico paying for the wall wasn't a slogan at all. It was a promise. Not a realistic one, but a promise none the less.
 
Mycroft said:
How soon people forget...or, more likely, they never knew in the first place...Trump, during the campaign, TOLD everyone how Mexico will pay for the wall right on his campaign web page. It wasn't hidden. It wasn't in some cryptic language that nobody knows. Of course, the Mainstream Media didn't mention it much so there are a whole slew of useful idiots who don't know any better.

The fact is, Congress...if they had any intention of doing anything Trump and the people who elected him want them to do...could easily fund the wall, put into place the laws that would recover all that money from Mexico...thereby making Mexico pay for the wall.

This isn't rocket science, people.
Click to expand...

Mycroft:

Mexico cuts oil supplies to the USA and invites Venezuela and Canada to do the same. Cuba offers to buy or barter oil from Venezuela and then Canada, concerned that the USA has broken NAFTA, considers cutting back production. There goes up to 40% of US foreign oil supplies. Then the US is once again beholden to Middle Eastern oil and all the entanglements that come with Saudi Sweet Light Crude or US domestic oil prices rise rapidly. Better to rethink a wall than break a trading bloc.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom