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America has lost its mind over political correctness

They didn't HAVE to do it. Nobody forced them to. They're just trying to avoid any type of controversy that might distract from the game. It shows that they were at least cognizant of what just happened there, and don't want any more focus on it that there already was.

No argument from me. They didn't have to by any means. Just like if CNN had a white anchor named "John Niggher", they are well within their rights to send him to a BLM march, and I wouldn't blame them for doing so if he is a credible reporter, but I would understand if they sent him to something else instead.
 
They didn't HAVE to do it. Nobody forced them to. They're just trying to avoid any type of controversy that might distract from the game. It shows that they were at least cognizant of what just happened there, and don't want any more focus on it that there already was.

They did it out of fear ...fear of how a certian group of terrorists would react
 
Nobody is attacking anybody over a name. ESPN chose to do this because they didn't want to look stupid over something so simple. Twitter would have had a field day making fun of ESPN, and they chose to avoid it so the focus could be more on the game.

You're the ones who seem to be trying to attack someone over a choice to avoid controversy.

The bottom line is Robert Lee was switched to a different game because of his name. That is unacceptable. That says a lot about the people of this country. The hate and prejudice is so wide spread that a major network was afraid to let this man broadcast because of his name.
 
What is stupid about it? Who was hurt? What problem does this cause?

You want to bitch about people being offended.... listen to yourself. You're offended by something as simple as someone being agreeable. If someone chooses to be a dick head that's their choice, and most people really don't give a ****. But you're angry that people choose to make an effort to not be a dick head. That is the stupidest ****ing thing in the world to be angry about. You're angry at people who are trying to be nice.

Well, take a look at the language and tone of my post vs yours and tell me again who is "angry"


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Are you saying it's stupid for people to be upset about his name or it's stupid for ESPN to think that it might easier to send Robert Lee to a city where they didn't just have massive violent protests over an old dead guy named Robert Lee?

Do you really think people would protest and riot over a Chinese dude named Bob Lee announcing a ball game?


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Big corporations, especially those that have a face to the public, are always ultra-conservative/cautious.

They have to be.

To suggest they should stop, is what's absurd. So you personally have nothing to lose by being non-PC. That's great.
Giant corporations? They lose nothing by being PC, they can suffer extreme losses by being careless. Most will choose the lowest common "be PC" denominator, and their boards hired them to do just that. Manage risk.

ESPN is far from conservative. The constantly go out of their way to make political and sometimes controversial statements on events inside and outside of sports.


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To be fair I am not scared of the left either but I do get in trouble with them:

That's kind of the definition of a dickhead I think isn't it?
Not from a more disagreeable perspective, I personally find in many contexts being call that kind of “dickhead” means I was the better, more responsible and honest person. Do children like it when I challenge their egotistical worldview? Hell no. Lots of adults are just adult-children and until they act in a manner deserving of my respect I’ll treat them as the silly miscreants they choose to behave like.

A lot of people love me partly due to ability to be “dickhead”. I am not sure I’d have my wife if I were so agreeable. She always seems to find herself in some situation where she’s feeling trapped by one social pressure or another and when I can go in and cause a ****-storm doing and saying what I really feel to get her out she’s one happy lady.Not that she never asks me to keep the lid on it sometimes :(

Why is that such a difficult thing to do?
It’s not at all difficult; in fact I love to teach rosenberg’s non-violent communication and other ways of receptive communication techniques as more effective ways of being polite yet I often still choose to speak without a filter in day to day. It's more me and I like it. Being too polite feels and by rational analysis appears ineffective and dishonest. If I do it too much it's like I am failing in my responsibility to be an adult. Why should I be polite? How does politeness serve my or my loved ones best interests?

Is it really that difficult for conservatives to avoid Ad Hominem attacks?
If one attacks me with reason, I’ll win with reason.
If one attacks me with violence, I’ll win with violence.
If one attacks me with emotional arguments based on their feelings, I might just decide it time they feel like a piece of human garbage for real instead of giving them the smug satisfaction of feeling justified. They should consider themselves lucky when I stop at an ad hominem it ain’t the only psychological trick I know.

As for conservatives in general, most people only have Ad Hominems.
Or is it that their entire political position is just one big Ad Hominem attack in the first place?
Every political conservative I know has their position based on principles. So sure if the shoe fits, there might well be some ad hominems involved but your really arguing a principled stand if you choose to dig for it.

I mean if you were meeting your girlfriends parents for the first time, or talking to your priest, or in a job interview you can handle that discussion without dropping swear words and f-bombs can't you?
Of course, but I am always still genuine to who I am including the side of me who can be a real prick. So you’d still probably classify me as a “dickhead” in those contexts but I just don’t know any better :wink:
 
Do you really think people would protest and riot over a Chinese dude named Bob Lee announcing a ball game?


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the only thing facing blowback now is espn.
glad my team plays on fox sports network.
 
ESPN is far from conservative. The constantly go out of their way to make political and sometimes controversial statements on events inside and outside of sports.
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I don't mean politically, I mean conservative as in takes no risks. Business usually has little to do with politics, it's all about growth and risk management.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...me-because-has-confederate-generals-name.html
An asian american was pulled from a football game because his name is Robert Lee.
are you friggen serious?

this insanity has to stop and reasoned discourse and logic is needed in this case.

Your statement assumes America has a mind to begin with, I would argue we have become the idiots depicted in Idiocracy.
The liberal educational system has stripped the average person of any ability to think critically. Liberalism is more dangerous to the mind than drugs.
 
Your statement assumes America has a mind to begin with, I would argue we have become the idiots depicted in Idiocracy.
The liberal educational system has stripped the average person of any ability to think critically. Liberalism is more dangerous to the mind than drugs.

I would agree that stripping reasoned discussion away and leaving only EMO in it's place is ultimately a bad idea and has been happening for a long time.
However i wouldn't say that liberalism is the only cause it has more to do with cultural shift.

All the Dr. Oz babies are grown up now. What we are seeing is a result of that disaster of mentality.
 
A lot of people love me partly due to ability to be “dickhead”. I am not sure I’d have my wife if I were so agreeable.
The rise and fall of jerks: Why mean guys get ahead ? at first - Salon.com

People have a tendency to assume assholes are honest, and know what they're talking about. They gravitate towards extreme confidence because they just can't imagine that a person could get away with exuding so much confidence without being able to back it up. We see it in literary characters like Sherlock Holmes. The complete asshole that can get away with it because he's brilliant. Of course in reality over time people start to figure out you're really just full of ****, and you can't actually back up half the **** you say.

This is exactly what Trump did in order to get elected. His entire campaign was essentially just negging. Of course now the idiots who voted for him are slowly but surely figuring out that he can't back up half the **** he said. Conservatives talk a big game about repealing and replacing Obamacare, building walls to keep out the immigrants, fixing the economy with tax cuts, balancing the budget...... but when it comes time to put their money where their mouth is they never deliver, and if they do their ideas end up doing a ton of damage.

I'll try and steer clear of psychologically evaluating your wife, but if you really care about her you might want to focus on helping to build up her own self confidence rather than forcing her to rely on a savior to rescue her.
 
Do you really think people would protest and riot over a Chinese dude named Bob Lee announcing a ball game?


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No but some nutjob Antifa asshole could easily start something over it. When tensions are high people act stupid.
 
Why exactly did they fear for Robert Lee's safety? Was there any indicadtion beforehand that he was at risk.

I think this is a stupid overreaction on ESPN's part.

Overreaction seems the norm for liberals these days. Yes it's stupid.
 
It's not a stupid move. They shouldn't have to do it, I'd fully support them if they decided not to, but I understand why they did it given the circumstances.

It's a stupid move and they didn't have to do it.
 
The bottom line is Robert Lee was switched to a different game because of his name. That is unacceptable.
Why? What was the harm done by it?

The hate and prejudice is so wide spread that a major network was afraid to let this man broadcast because of his name.

Hate and prejudice from the Alt-Right? Maybe, but I don't think that's why they did it. They just didn't want to seem insensitive by sending a guy named Robert Lee to a place where an argument over a statue of a guy named Robert E. Lee resulted in death. The campus just recently covered the statue out of respect. If this guy did the Virginia game the only thing that would have probably happened is that Colbert or the Daily show would have poked some fun at it, and Twitter would have had a field day. Silly publicity that would have distracted from the game that they wanted to avoid. Nobody was hurt by it. It's there choice.
 
It's a stupid move and they didn't have to do it.

But what makes it stupid? Who was hurt by it? Who was inconvenienced by it? They probably didn't have to do it, but why not do it anyway? That's the thing about political correctness. I'm sure most people don't give a **** if you say black instead of African American or Indian instead of Native American, or Merry Christmas instead of Happy Hollidays, but who gives a ****? Is it really that difficult to use a more inclusive word? Why do you need to say Retard when you could just say idiot? Why do you need to say faggot when you really mean d-bag? Why is that such a chore for you that you have to throw a hissy fit about being asked to do that?

ESPN probably didn't need to do this, but it also didn't cost them anything so why not be on the safe side?
 
Your statement assumes America has a mind to begin with, I would argue we have become the idiots depicted in Idiocracy.
The liberal educational system has stripped the average person of any ability to think critically. Liberalism is more dangerous to the mind than drugs.

That depends upon how one defines 'liberalism', doesn't it? And that must go to the root word, 'liberal'. In my Webster that is defined as, among other things, 2) Holding, expressing or following views or policies that support the freedom of the individual to act or express themselves as they choose. Also 5) tolerant of the ideas or behavior of others.

What can possibly be harmful about such a position?

Do we need to change the meaning of the words?
 
I’ll try and steer clear of psychologically evaluating your wife, but if you really care about her you might want to focus on helping to build up her own self confidence rather than forcing her to rely on a savior to rescue her.
Did I imply she needed rescuing? :) If so then I suppose she must give me that cause she’s pretty amazing when it comes to stuff like that.

Rather than danger, I more meant it in the way she cares about people and their feelings (to the point it causes her distress) and my disagreeableness helps with her self-care as well as being apart of her attraction to me as it consistently makes her laugh, smile and feel feminine[which can be a struggle for strong successful independent woman] She is far from the only one where I have this dynamic. I am also not sure I could do my career or community work very well if I had too high of agreeableness: I am in morally grey, high stress and emotional manipulative situation on the regular. In some ways its a survive tool.

One of my oldest friends is married to the most disagreeable woman I know, she is actually attracted to him cause he is so high in agreeable distress, this causes him to have a unique fascination and allure when she does and says everything without the filter which she find irresistible. The odd loving “bickering” dynamic is comforting to them both. So it not even that I am saying this is a gendered thing although thats certainly how the averages fall. I would think having an agreeable and disagreeable parents is an advantage as it develops and builds different aspects of a child character. I think it is important to have that kind of personality diversity on a leadership team although career wise your ratios not going to 1:1 as disagreeable people have an easier time in the leadership dynamic and you don’t want burn out half your leadership team.

Salon said:
I want to be really careful here, but there are certain personalities of people who actually are somewhat drawn to mean men, but are much more vulnerable. I’m not labeling women with these characteristics; it’s all of us, but we need to be mindful that mean men can be more devastating to people whose personalities have*some self-doubt in it. Where they like to avoid conflict, they’re really allergic to conflict. They have high needs for approval, [and] stay far away from anger. So the result — man or woman — in the face of a mean man [they] will just shrink.
:lamo And modern feminist theorists wonder why they are the claimed to be the new misogynists?

Self-doubt is healthy. Avoiding or being allergic to conflict is healthy. Seeking approval is normal.

“Mean men” don’t sink agreeable personalities. Agreeable personalities disarm the meanness and often make allies. Soft power is just if not more potent than hard power. To use my wife again, you think I will use my meanness on her everytime we disagree? That'd be ridiculous and horribly unhealthy for both of us…her soft power, would have me bend to her will by request alone but this has limits. There are contexts where the other is more advantagous and vice versa.

Salon said:
If you bring women into power and positions where they have authority, [men are]*threatened by that. They’re very threatened.
:lamo or we[men and women] just don’t trust them when leadership decisions are clearly based on feelings. Logic and reason are the basis of subordination. Leaders need to show logic drives them - this is apart of why confidence is needed(even puffed up). There is a reason higharchies are not the preferred “female” social model. You think if soldiers thought their generals were basing their war decisions on gut / feeling not merited experience and logic the army wouldn't lose morale then mutiny? There is wiggle room but pass a threshold and you’ll always have insubordination, be it a woman or man in “charge” or and regarless of the subordinates gender.

If we want emotionally driven people in hard power we'd need to reorganize businesses from a higharchy structure. Never make them in "charge" per say only influentional. This is why in female dominated work environments that exactly what I do and it improves the morale and kills so much drama over night. The infighting when rank is pulled in these emotional dominated environments is insane and good for no one. Can you do that everywhere though? No, more disagreeable people have the exact opposite happen to them. They love knowing where they stand. They love dominence and submission. So highachies are where they thrive. Sales men want to be the best not necessasily make the most....

Salon said:
Lipton*argues that the initial success of mean men is often fleeting*and they*“ultimately destroy brand value,*drive away customers and impact the bottom line.”
So why not go into the market and flourish my friend? :lamo
 
People have a tendency to assume assholes are honest, and know what they're talking about. They gravitate towards extreme confidence because they just can't imagine that a person could get away with exuding so much confidence without being able to back it up.
That’s an interesting way to phrase it. I am not so sure though people are so rational. I think they just genuinely like confidence over debilitating self-doubt. A prick who can’t find a balance is still isolated.

We see it in literary characters like Sherlock Holmes. The complete asshole that can get away with it because he's brilliant. Of course in reality over time people start to figure out you're really just full of ****, and you can't actually back up half the **** you say.
I’ve heard the comparison before, the in-laws called me “Henry Higgins” from my fair lady. A reference I had to look up at the time - but took as a great compliment there after. And don’t get me wrong, I get told I am “full of ****” all the time, what is that even suppose to mean? Would I be full of any less **** if I said it meekly and with much care? Hardly! People would just listen less and I would give up winning when I didn’t have too.

This is exactly what Trump did in order to get elected. His entire campaign was essentially just negging. Of course now the idiots who voted for him are slowly but surely figuring out that he can't back up half the **** he said. Conservatives talk a big game about repealing and replacing Obamacare, building walls to keep out the immigrants, fixing the economy with tax cuts, balancing the budget……
I think you might being conflating “expects he would” verses “hopes he could”. Real political support tends not to view politicians as messiahs. That’s usually a narrative by an opposition to ridicule and undermine confidence. The optics favour trump either way that was the beauty of his platform.

As a Rand Paul type critic on the replace proposals. The replace looked almost as bad as the current and the repel mostly hollow. Trump wanted to help get things done sure, but he got obfuscated by procedure and underestimating established interests. It happens to the best of us. Why would supporters not stand by? If democrats get more congress he’d be smart to find a two tier / deregulation compromise. If new republicans balance changes hopefully we get a different true repeal and replace later (I hope on better terms) but honestly him getting obfuscated at this point is the same as Obama(and many other presidents) just from another angle [and unlike Obama doesn’t look like he’s stopping another solution] so I not even sure why you see it as a big loss for him verses the country. We’ve basically got the worst of both solutions and an exploding cost system. Obamacare additions can’t really afford to use their new plans and people who had good plans are getting worse coverage. This cost problem grows by the day. How is that trumps fault for trying to utilize his position to get something better? Unless you can present optics where he obfuscated, he dodged a bullet from a bad replace IMHO.

Building the wall is the same. The optics are a win/win. If he does builds it - he looks like gold. If he fails he still the only guy giving a visible solution that’s not adding 11 million + low-skilled labours to a economy struggling to accommodate an oversupply of low-skilled labours. The democrats problem is they have yet to provide an appearance of a solution/compromise. They either get the new voters(by legalization) and hope they remain pro-immigration (which is questionable) or lose people worried about supply side wage depressors.

Tax cuts could be dangerous, but his plan to pay was always on the control spending, tariffs, getting other countries to pay more of the share in international expenses and growth through lower regulation/low taxes not simply tax cut = prosperity. It’s a gamble to be sure but when it comes to betting on an economy the American one is very resilient, diversified and could well favour him. If it does fail to grow, I betting the way he sees it he tried his best but governments don’t control economies. He likely can’t win (although when the alternative is bernie-esk he still might) but it was inevitable anyway. Governments only modestly affect economics. Taxes are a mess. Looking like your trying is what matters to the optics.

but when it comes time to put their money where their mouth is they never deliver, and if they do their ideas end up doing a ton of damage.
The same could be said of any political categorization or person. That’s marketing verse engineering for you. Sales verses logistics. You need both, trump has the marketing chops but the delivery is on the county as a whole not on him to deliver. I’d assume he knows that (he has said it) but obviously lot of people are convinced he's mad, so who really knows?
 
That’s an interesting way to phrase it. I am not so sure though people are so rational.
That's the point. It isn't rational to think that. It's an instinctive assumption, and it's usually wrong.

Would I be full of any less **** if I said it meekly and with much care?
Yes, you would because you would be hedging your bets, and making it more apparent that there is at least a chance you could be wrong.
 
That's the point. It isn't rational to think that. It's an instinctive assumption, and it's usually wrong.
It’s not rational to trust a person based on demeanour either. And you say that like agreeableness predicts openness specifically in terms of intelligence, which as it happens is actually quite common but far from consistent.

I think though that has much more to do with child socialization. I have scored consistantly very high in openness type measures. That meant as a child, I was isolated often exploring ideas, day-dreaming and investigating instead of playing, practicing or participating in the age appropriate activities. It created a social environment that made competition and conflict difficult to win. After all, others spend very little time in pursuit of exploration, spending more time doing and as a consequence were more practiced and experienced at the typical tests where we assign winners and losers. So the only areas I really excelled were creative domains equalizing all participates, where no one else had a practice advantage yet I had an “innate” one. This was especially noticeable in term of social skill development verses academic performance (falling in the nerd verses jocks stereotype)

Losing in completion and conflict will no doubt reinforce agreeableness, politeness and shyness over time. I think that is maybe one reason we have of gender socialization reinforce the norm for agreeable women and disagreeable men in most cases.Women tend to need to take a lot more sacrifices(e.g. child birth), men meanwhile a lot more competitive forces(e.g. providing primary income / safety).

All in all, I agree its an instinctive assumption, I disagree it wrong as I don’t think it measuring if that person has a better skill set (which would be rational question) but rather a better ability to withstand the stress-pressures of leadership(an instinctual question). Just as agreeableness might predict ones ability to take the stress-pressures of childrearing (which can feel like loss after loss after loss all for a greater good to a more disagreeable person)

Yes, you would because you would be hedging your bets, and making it more apparent that there is at least a chance you could be wrong.
When is that not the case? Why can’t I assume that is an assumption made by everyone? If someone has a question to my decision or opinion challenge it, defend your position with confidence and we can figure out the best course of action and the most right opinion. Many people have no interest in fighting out the best answers. So I agree they should be agreeable as they will always follow(after all, it's lead, follow or get out of the way), alas these days it seems they feel they must tell me how much they “feel” their precious "opinion" often half as proven as mine is just as valid, or their theory is more important than my proven success… yeah, I dismiss the possibly I am wrong till proven otherwise, hence people trust me to drive the bus. That guy saying “what if” to every driving challenge barely gets us out of the parking lot, then you wonder why people feel safer when I am at the wheel with my likely overconfidence in driving based on my experience?

Conservatives are in such a battle of ideas. It will be nice when "liberals" drop the feminist reforms and get back to same proven processes of developing leaders with good proven ideas.
 
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I would agree that stripping reasoned discussion away and leaving only EMO in it's place is ultimately a bad idea and has been happening for a long time.
However i wouldn't say that liberalism is the only cause it has more to do with cultural shift.

All the Dr. Oz babies are grown up now. What we are seeing is a result of that disaster of mentality.

Liberalism is the cultural shift. The country has embraced liberalism to the point where the so called conservatives today are more liberal than the far left of 50's or 60's. JFK and FDR would be considered far right by todays standards.
 
That depends upon how one defines 'liberalism', doesn't it? And that must go to the root word, 'liberal'. In my Webster that is defined as, among other things, 2) Holding, expressing or following views or policies that support the freedom of the individual to act or express themselves as they choose. Also 5) tolerant of the ideas or behavior of others.

What can possibly be harmful about such a position?

Do we need to change the meaning of the words?

Changing the meaning of words is the liberals stock in trade. They cannot engage in honest debate, because their positions are immoral at their roots, and their true intent is authoritarian socialist rule.

Webster if full of sheet. Liberalism is the belief of authoritarianism and forced socialism. Libertarianism is the only political philosophy that supports individual freedom, and tolerance of the rights of others.
 
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