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What I've never understood aboitnthe Birther Movement...

Thoreau72 said:
I was agnostic and neutral on the controversy. My understanding was that there was circumstantial evidence that he was born in Africa, not the US, despite his mother being a US citizen.

The heart of the controversy was the language in Article II of the Constitution that requires the POTUS to be "natural born". Much ado about nothing was my position then and now.

I read the book by Janny Scott, a biography of Obama's mother, entitled A Singular Woman.

What I find more interesting than his birthplace is the (apparent) fact that his mother worked for 2 different organizations with connections to the CIA during Obama's formative years. If true, the end result was that his formative years were within close proximity to CIA influence and/or supervision. I always saw him as a sort of Manchurian Candidate.

Whatever the case, he governed in accordance with the goals and desires of the military industrial complex and the shadow government, whatever that may actually be.
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Uh.....Bush's dad RAN the CIA
 
vegas giants said:
Uh.....Bush's dad RAN the CIA
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For a short period of time he did. And he was in Dallas on that fateful day. And he was in the periphery of Iran-Contra.
 
chuckiechan said:
Obama was the first to be challenged due to his connections to Kenya and his being uncooperative in producing proof. The lack of transparency fed the conspiracy.

For some reason in this country (like voting, I will add), you are who you say you are.

You have to produce a birth certificate for a drivers license, but not to run for president. Go figure. Trump brought this up during a debate with Ted Cruz suggesting he get it cleared up before someone clubs him with it. He got clubbed by the media, then got it straightened out. Obama, I suspect was grateful for the coverage and had no motive to clear it up because it gave the MSM something to cover besides his his lack of background.

I'm surprised in this data driven age -"We know what you ate for breakfast" - we don't know whether or not a presidential candidate is eligible to run.
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This post is from a classic right-wing uneducated deplorable. When a person files to run for president they have to prove to the elections commission that they're qualified so Obama did indeed produce a birth certificate. You will have to get used to the idea that a colored man was President cuz it happened it's reality.
 
Thoreau72 said:
For a short period of time he did. And he was in Dallas on that fateful day. And he was in the periphery of Iran-Contra.
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If you are looking for a manchurain candidate it would be bush jr
 
katzgar said:
its pretty straight forward. Racists were pissed a black got elected president. Trump played into it because he knew his base wasnt educated enough to know about the elections commission
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What I always have wondered about is, why anyone would discredit themselves so utterly by writing such racist muck. You must know that that undermines your credibility for anyone with a Google. ;)
 
MaggieD said:
There is no question that Ovama's mother was an American citizen. Therefore, any children of hers are American citizens. What was the controversy?

Without turning this thread into a maelstrom, can anyone explain that to me?
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Trying to de-legitimize the president and smear the president is something sore losers do every presidency. For example when Bush was president sore losers made up claims of election stealing, claimed he went awol, said he lied for war, master minded 9-11, wanted to name a sewage plant after him, made negative films about him. Heck its going on right now with Trump. Sore losers are calling him a racist, bigot,and xenophobe.They make up Trump/Russian conspiracies and other nonsense. Its as though the main stream mean is not FOX news and Fox news is main stream media in regard to how the president is treated by the media. ,
 
joG said:
What I always have wondered about is, why anyone would discredit themselves so utterly by writing such racist muck. You must know that that undermines your credibility for anyone with a Google. ;)
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What I wonder about is how you can pretend otherwise
 
MaggieD said:
There is no question that Ovama's mother was an American citizen. Therefore, any children of hers are American citizens. What was the controversy?

Without turning this thread into a maelstrom, can anyone explain that to me?
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The controversy was conspiracy garbage made up by racists who hated Obama, and propagated by right-wingers who wanted to delegitimize his presidency.

You are correct that there is no question. But that does not matter to conspiracy theorists. They will continue to push their garbage narrative even in the face of facts.
 
The whole thing from the start is just stoopid on stilts --
.
Disregarding the authentic BC Obama showed in June 2008, and the one from the DOH in Hawaii, and the fact his mother was a US citizen...

the idea some about-to-pop 18 year old fully-pregnant woman is going to fly nearly 13,000 miles around the world, alone, involving like 5 or 6 different connecting flights, (not to mention the exorbitant cost to travel there...)

to drop a baby in a third world country rife with disease, right in the middle of peak yellow fever season -- and endemic smallpox --
where all passengers had to have vaccination certificates - and they don't administer them to pregnant women or children under one.

-- drop the kid, then, flying again 13,0000 miles with some six more connecting flights, newborn in tow, without anyone noticing, without registering the child, no passport for baby, and just settle back home - to care for the infant like nothing happened, is so wild

-- that anyone who can entertain that thought for more than 2 minutes, and not recognize the inanity of it all, has to be, well, retarded.

That some have clung to it for more than 8 years, is just more proof of the retardation.
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I've posted these ^ facts numerous times, and not one of the dedicated birfers has yet to even attempt to address this most basic bit of information.
 
MaggieD said:
There is no question that Ovama's mother was an American citizen. Therefore, any children of hers are American citizens. What was the controversy?

Without turning this thread into a maelstrom, can anyone explain that to me?
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This is my opinion

It is about race pure and simple

McCain was born in Panama, no real issues regarding the fact he was not born in the US, perhaps some legal issues but nothing compared to what Obama faced. As he was born on a US military base so he counted as being born in the US by most accounts

Ted Cruz, born in Canada, to an American mother, and Cuban father. Some issues regarding his eligibility to be president, but nothing like the crap Obama faced.

For some it might have been just because he was a democrat and they wanted to weaken his power. But from a logical standpoint, and if you go through the posts of those on DP who are birthers, I believe you would find most would have in general the more racist posts on average on DP.

I truly believe it is because some americans could not stand to see a non white man as president and wanted some way to end that
 
Paperview said:
The whole thing from the start is just stoopid on stilts --
.
Disregarding the authentic BC Obama showed in June 2008, and the one from the DOH in Hawaii, and the fact his mother was a US citizen...

the idea some about-to-pop 18 year old fully-pregnant woman is going to fly nearly 13,000 miles around the world, alone, involving like 5 or 6 different connecting flights, (not to mention the exorbitant cost to travel there...)

to drop a baby in a third world country rife with disease, right in the middle of peak yellow fever season -- and endemic smallpox --
where all passengers had to have vaccination certificates - and they don't administer them to pregnant women or children under one.

-- drop the kid, then, flying again 13,0000 miles with some six more connecting flights, newborn in tow, without anyone noticing, without registering the child, no passport for baby, and just settle back home - to care for the infant like nothing happened, is so wild

-- that anyone who can entertain that thought for more than 2 minutes, and not recognize the inanity of it all, has to be, well, retarded.

That some have clung to it for more than 8 years, is just more proof of the retardation.
----------------
I've posted these ^ facts numerous times, and not one of the dedicated birfers has yet to even attempt to address this most basic bit of information.
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Amen!
One of the dumbest things that has ever.
 
MaggieD said:
There is no question that Ovama's mother was an American citizen. Therefore, any children of hers are American citizens. What was the controversy?

Without turning this thread into a maelstrom, can anyone explain that to me?
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On the Meaning of “Natural Born Citizen”

"All the sources routinely used to interpret the Constitution confirm that the phrase “natural born Citizen” has a specific meaning: namely, someone who was a U.S. citizen at birth with no need to go through a naturalization proceeding at some later time. And Congress has made equally clear from the time of the framing of the Constitution to the current day that, subject to certain residency requirements on the parents, someone born to a U.S. citizen parent generally becomes a U.S. citizen without regard to whether the birth takes place in Canada, the Canal Zone, or the continental United States."

Some people interpret differently the meaning and suppose that someone born abroad is "naturalized".

Cruz, McCain, and even Romney also suffered slings and arrows for their birthplace. Those that marginalize this aspect of their campaigns are simply forgetful, incorrect, or agenda driven in some direction.

McCain Birth Issue

"Congress has recognized since the Founding, a person born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent is generally a U.S. citizen from birth with no need for naturalization. And the phrase “natural born Citizen” in the Constitution encompasses all such citizens from birth. Thus, an individual born to a U.S. citizen parent — whether in California or Canada or the Canal Zone — is a U.S. citizen from birth and is fully eligible to serve as President if the people so choose."

"the purpose of the natural born Citizen clause was thus to “cut[] off all chances for ambitious foreigners, who might otherwise be intriguing for the office; and interpose[] a barrier against those corrupt interferences of foreign governments in executive elections.”"

I can see why founders would want someone born and raised at home to be eligible to lead.

Odds are they would be less globalistically inclined. This "rule" obviously does not always work out as intended. Like anything else..there will be exceptions..
 
akyron said:
On the Meaning of “Natural Born Citizen”

"All the sources routinely used to interpret the Constitution confirm that the phrase “natural born Citizen” has a specific meaning: namely, someone who was a U.S. citizen at birth with no need to go through a naturalization proceeding at some later time. And Congress has made equally clear from the time of the framing of the Constitution to the current day that, subject to certain residency requirements on the parents, someone born to a U.S. citizen parent generally becomes a U.S. citizen without regard to whether the birth takes place in Canada, the Canal Zone, or the continental United States."

Some people interpret differently the meaning and suppose that someone born abroad is "naturalized".

Cruz, McCain, and even Romney also suffered slings and arrows for their birthplace. Those that marginalize this aspect of their campaigns are simply forgetful, incorrect, or agenda driven in some direction.

McCain Birth Issue

"Congress has recognized since the Founding, a person born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent is generally a U.S. citizen from birth with no need for naturalization. And the phrase “natural born Citizen” in the Constitution encompasses all such citizens from birth. Thus, an individual born to a U.S. citizen parent — whether in California or Canada or the Canal Zone — is a U.S. citizen from birth and is fully eligible to serve as President if the people so choose."

"the purpose of the natural born Citizen clause was thus to “cut[] off all chances for ambitious foreigners, who might otherwise be intriguing for the office; and interpose[] a barrier against those corrupt interferences of foreign governments in executive elections.”"

I can see why founders would want someone born and raised at home to be eligible to lead.

Odds are they would be less globalistically inclined. This "rule" obviously does not always work out as intended. Like anything else..there will be exceptions..
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Great post. Thanks. Would seem the problem is that the wrong branch is making the interpretations. That SCOTUSs job. Your post makes perfect sense, though, sonthanks.
 
MaggieD said:
There is no question that Ovama's mother was an American citizen. Therefore, any children of hers are American citizens. What was the controversy?

Without turning this thread into a maelstrom, can anyone explain that to me?
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I also did not understand that about this issue, however we never heard anybody use this as a defense to the birth certificate thing.

I wonder why not.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
This is my opinion

It is about race pure and simple

McCain was born in Panama, no real issues regarding the fact he was not born in the US, perhaps some legal issues but nothing compared to what Obama faced. As he was born on a US military base so he counted as being born in the US by most accounts

Ted Cruz, born in Canada, to an American mother, and Cuban father. Some issues regarding his eligibility to be president, but nothing like the crap Obama faced.

For some it might have been just because he was a democrat and they wanted to weaken his power. But from a logical standpoint, and if you go through the posts of those on DP who are birthers, I believe you would find most would have in general the more racist posts on average on DP.

I truly believe it is because some Americans could not stand to see a non white man as president and wanted some way to end that
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So to believe this you will have to believe that it was because Obama was half black that this happened and blacks fall way below Latinos on the hate ladder. After all Ted Cruz is a Latino and was in the same boat but it was not a problem for him.

Is that what you are saying?
 
Mason66 said:
So to believe this you will have to believe that it was because Obama was half black that this happened and blacks fall way below Latinos on the hate ladder. After all Ted Cruz is a Latino and was in the same boat but it was not a problem for him.

Is that what you are saying?
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Ted Cruz looks white so that is ok, and for some neo Nazi's and white nationalists being Spanish is close enough to being white. If he had native or black ancestry I expect his being born in Canada to a Cuban father would have been a much bigger issue.

So it really comes down to two things. Among the elite it was used to weaken Obama, among the masses for the majority that believed it, it was because Obama was black
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Ted Cruz looks white so that is ok, and for some neo Nazi's and white nationalists being Spanish is close enough to being white. If he had native or black ancestry I expect his being born in Canada to a Cuban father would have been a much bigger issue.

So it really comes down to two things. Among the elite it was used to weaken Obama, among the masses for the majority that believed it, it was because Obama was black
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You are kidding with this right?

Ted Cruz does not look white. He looks Latino.

Also since when do Neo Nazis agree that having mixed blood is OK?

Aren't those the people that want a pure race?
 
Mason66 said:
You are kidding with this right?

Ted Cruz does not look white. He looks Latino.

Also since when do Neo Nazis agree that having mixed blood is OK?

Aren't those the people that want a pure race?
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He looks Spanish, which also looks like Italian. If he was mestizo, then it probably would have been more of an issue

Now I did not say the people who were birthers were white nationalists, or neo Nazi's or members of the KKK.

Just that the majority of birthers were and are birthers because Obama was black. They might not even recognize that fact, but deep down in their psyche it is truly that as being the root cause. There is no other rational explanation for the believe that Obama was born in Africa despite showing his birth certificate multiple time, having his parents and grandparents say it other than a deep rooted dislike of having a black president
 
MaggieD said:
There is no question that Ovama's mother was an American citizen. Therefore, any children of hers are American citizens. What was the controversy?

Without turning this thread into a maelstrom, can anyone explain that to me?
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Ok, just to make it clear, I think the birther movement was ridiculous. But this is how I have heard it explained.

At the time of Obama's birth, the law was that in order to be born overseas and still be considered a "natural-born citizen" his mother would have had to have been IN the US for at least 5 years after her 14th birthday. Obama's mom was 3 months short of her 19th birthday when Obama was born. So, technically, if Obama had been born in Kenya he would have missed citizenship by 3 months. That law has since changed, but the change wouldn't have made him a citizen retroactively.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Ok, just to make it clear, I think the birther movement was ridiculous. But this is how I have heard it explained.

At the time of Obama's birth, the law was that in order to be born overseas and still be considered a "natural-born citizen" his mother would have had to have been IN the US for at least 5 years after her 14th birthday. Obama's mom was 3 months short of her 19th birthday when Obama was born. So, technically, if Obama had been born in Kenya he would have missed citizenship by 3 months. That law has since changed, but the change wouldn't have made him a citizen retroactively.
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You know, I think you win Best Answer. I now remember that argument. Thank you.
 
Paperview said:
And it's specious because it's not true.
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Well, I remember it was bandied about. Since you seem quite sure it's not true, you read it in a reliable source, Imassume. Any idea where?
 
MaggieD said:
Well, I remember it was bandied about. Since you seem quite sure it's not true, you read it in a reliable source, Imassume. Any idea where?
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The fact of the matter is that Obama was born in Hawaii to an American mother, and as you say that alone makes him eligible to be president

It started with Obama not being born in the US, but Kenya. It continued with him being born in Hawaii but not counting as Hawaii was not a state at the time. His mother did not count because she was not 19 etc.

Birtherism continued long after Obama had his Birth Certificate confirmed. People wanted to see the long form, after the long form was produced, people claimed it was a forgery. Some produced a fake BC for Obama being born in Kenya, but if I recall the forgery was proven fake because it make the historical error of thinking Kenya was independent at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Born_in_Kenya
 
MaggieD said:
Well, I remember it was bandied about. Since you seem quite sure it's not true, you read it in a reliable source, Imassume. Any idea where?
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It was around nine years ago now. I was pretty heavily into the birther discussions for quite some time and that was tossed out and found to be incorrect rather quickly.

And think about it: any girl / woman would have to be IN the US for at least 5 years after her 14th birthday in order to give birth to a US Citizen?

Now you see how silly it sounds?
 
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