• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Peace Monument Vandalized

apdst said:
The North didn't fight to end slavery.
Click to expand...

Abolitionists were prominent, England had outlawed, the US and other countries outlawed it from cross-ocean trade; slavery was being abolished all around the South, literally. The Underground Railroad already existed. Slavery would not be legal in any new States. The Confederate States claimed, explicitly, they left for slavery.

The Civil War was about slavery. It was the last stand of Western slavers.

We've been coddling them for 200 years.
 
ecofarm said:
Again, coddling. We didn't want the scum to rouse more rabble, so we gave them pacifiers. They were foreign troops fighting for slavery against the US.

"Destroying history"? Do you read yourself? Do you see how pathetically hyperbolic that emotional BS reads? Without the statues, there will still be history - accurate history. Not history from a glorified self-serving racist perspective.

They fought for slavery. Their freedom to have slaves. Can you not see the absurdity of your claim?

That's horse crap. Anyone could deny the impetus of a war with platitudes.

30% of white families, 50% in some States.

You totally miss the point.

They did not leave the US and fight against it to preserve slavery. That's the problem. Once you figure that out, perhaps you'll see the issue from an enlightened perspective.
Click to expand...

I will gain no enlightenment from you and your attitude, Eco. You travel in darkness on this issue.
 
MaggieD said:
I will gain no enlightenment from you and your attitude, Eco. You travel in darkness on this issue.
Click to expand...

For you the old southern gentleman will always be sacrosanct. For me it never was.
 
ecofarm said:
For you the old southern gentleman will always be sacrosanct. For me it never was.
Click to expand...

Perhaps Colonel Sanders will be next to go. You may have the last word, Eco. your posts to me on this subject are nonsense.
 
TurtleDude said:
It should have been.
Click to expand...

Why did Sam Houston not want to secede? I see secession beginning with the 1832 Tariff and Mr. Nullification, John Calhoun ...
 
TurtleDude said:
many in the SJW camp try to use the confederacy as a symbol of what they currently hate-groups that are patronized or support conservative white Christian middle class males. The SJWs think by attacking the confederacy, they are attacking that group and they try to shame such white males by trying to tie slavery with the GOP. Its a pathetic ploy and its fun watching these ranters spew faux indignation over a movement that was dead over 150 years ago
Click to expand...

You're referring to the method GOPs have used for 4 decades to tie DEMs to social issues like abortion that you support. Same with guns and elections. Same with DEM Boogiewomen and elections.

To act like DEMs started this and do it more than GOPs since Nixon's Southern Strategy is .......
 
MaggieD said:
And yet they are buried in Arlington National, with a monument no less. The crybabies are the people who continually and wrongly impose their values on others and would destroy history.
Click to expand...
Sorry Maggie, but it's the Lost Causers who are trying to whitewash history here.

The "freedom" the Confederates fought for was the right to enslave other human beings. The declarations of secession for 5 states are here:
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

Georgia's declaration focuses at length on slavery, and pretty much nothing else. Mississippi stated that "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world." South Carolina was a bit more coy, but eventually got around to their real concern. And so on.

They were not shy about why they seceded, and killed their fellow Americans. Why are you?


The founder of our country owned slaves. Thomas Jefferson. James Madison. 49% of the men at the Constitutional Convention owned slaves. It was the way of the world. Perhaps we should tear up the Constitution because of those dirty rat bastards, eh?
Click to expand...
Ilya Somin on "Why slippery slope arguments should not stop us from removing Confederate monuments." I can't say it any better myself.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...confederate-monuments/?utm_term=.6ad706b2c100
 
Visbek said:
Sorry Maggie, but it's the Lost Causers who are trying to whitewash history here.

The "freedom" the Confederates fought for was the right to enslave other human beings. The declarations of secession for 5 states are here:
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

Georgia's declaration focuses at length on slavery, and pretty much nothing else. Mississippi stated that "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world." South Carolina was a bit more coy, but eventually got around to their real concern. And so on.

They were not shy about why they seceded, and killed their fellow Americans. Why are you?



Ilya Somin on "Why slippery slope arguments should not stop us from removing Confederate monuments." I can't say it any better myself.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...confederate-monuments/?utm_term=.6ad706b2c100
Click to expand...

I'm not shy about it. That was one reason. But the reason behind it involved states' rights. tariffs and taxes. So all of the above.

Our nation healed. That is why 30,000 Confederate soldiers are buried in Arlington National Cemetery. And now the Left is picking off the scab.
 
ecofarm said:
It has everything to do with it. The statues were placed so that traitorous scum would calm down, feel good about themselves and not cause more trouble. Enough is enough, it's been almost 200 years. The South can face what it was and deal with it. No more statues of hostile foreign troops fighting for slavery. Burn 'em down.
Click to expand...

Bull****. This thread isn't about all the Confederate statues or even some folks hurt feelings.

It's about one particular statue that depicts "our better angles" (Lincoln's first inaugural address) taking the weapon from a Confederate soldier and putting the instrument of death and destruction aside. It was a statue based upon, indicative of, and representative of future peace here at home, and the healing of our nation as a whole society.

That you and the villainous Cretans that destroyed it can't understand that, and the fact that you all prefer to maintain your current level of hate, anger, and violent vicious vindictive victimhood at the price of civil peace, says a hell of a lot more about you and they, than you may wish be exposed publically.
 
Last edited:
Beaudreaux said:
Bull****. This thread isn't about all the Confederate statues or even some folks hurt feelings.

It's about one particular statue that depicts "our better angles" (Lincoln's first inaugural address) taking the weapon from a Confederate soldier and putting the instrument of death and destruction aside. It was a statue based upon, indicative of, and representative of future peace here at home, and the healing of our nation as a whole society.

That you and the villainous Cretans that destroyed it can't understand that, and the fact that you all prefer to maintain your current level of hate, anger, and violent vicious vindictive victimhood at the price of civil peace, says a hell of a lot more about you and they, than you may wish be exposed publically.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should, for the sake of context, place another statue next to it. Bin Laden reaching for his AK. Then we add a plaque between them: "Okay, at least the Confederates stopped fighting for tyranny. They didn't go to the last man. Some of them had sense beat into them or otherwise realized their cause was horrible. And they stopped killing Americans. We gave them statues to make them feel better and they went back to their cousin-wives".

When we turn the plaque over, it reads: "Okay, it's been around 200 years and we can stop placating the traitors with statues".
 
MaggieD said:
I'm not shy about it. That was one reason. But the reason behind it involved states' rights. tariffs and taxes. So all of the above.
Click to expand...
I call bull****. Read your own post. You EXPLICITLY stated that they did not fight for slavery, but for "freedom." Fighting for the "right" to enslave others is not fighting for love or freedom.


Our nation healed. That is why 30,000 Confederate soldiers are buried in Arlington National Cemetery. And now the Left is picking off the scab.
Click to expand...
It healed? How fascinating. How did that happen? And when?

Was it the Jim Crow laws? State-enforced segregation? Rampant racism and discrimination? The FBI trying to shut down the Civil Rights Movement? The assassination of leaders like Martin Luther King, Jr, Malcolm X, Bobby Kennedy, and Fred Hampton?

Oooh, I know! It happened when a black man became President. I'm sure that fixed the legacy of slavery.

Let's get real. The white supremacists and Lost Causers have never accepted the reality of defeat, or the moral poison they advocate. The white supremacists want to impose their racist and authoritarian views on America, which is why it is important to expose them, let them discredit themselves, and not to give in to their demands.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm not shy about it. That was one reason. But the reason behind it involved states' rights. tariffs and taxes. So all of the above.

Our nation healed. That is why 30,000 Confederate soldiers are buried in Arlington National Cemetery. And now the Left is picking off the scab.
Click to expand...

Arlington nation cemetery was created as an act of revenge againist the lands original owner. The original owner of Arlington? Robert E Lee. The union confiscated Arlington and converted it into a cemetery for union soldiers.
 
Visbek said:
I call bull****. Read your own post. You EXPLICITLY stated that they did not fight for slavery, but for "freedom." Fighting for the "right" to enslave others is not fighting for love or freedom.

It healed? How fascinating. How did that happen? And when?

Was it the Jim Crow laws? State-enforced segregation? Rampant racism and discrimination? The FBI trying to shut down the Civil Rights Movement? The assassination of leaders like Martin Luther King, Jr, Malcolm X, Bobby Kennedy, and Fred Hampton?

Oooh, I know! It happened when a black man became President. I'm sure that fixed the legacy of slavery.

Let's get real. The white supremacists and Lost Causers have never accepted the reality of defeat, or the moral poison they advocate. The white supremacists want to impose their racist and authoritarian views on America, which is why it is important to expose them, let them discredit themselves, and not to give in to their demands.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to continue arguing with you. But when you say that the south never accepted defeat? I think that's exactly the same way history will view liberals re the last election. Those,statues stood, some of them for over one hundred years and more. This is a new America. Filled with hate and wanting to erase history.

Now you are welcome to the last word.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Arlington nation cemetery was created as an act of revenge againist the lands original owner. The original owner of Arlington? Robert E Lee. The union confiscated Arlington and converted it into a cemetery for union soldiers.
Click to expand...

The original owner was his wife. I'd love to see a credible link that claims it was done as an act of revenge.
 
MaggieD said:
The original owner was his wife. I'd love to see a credible link that claims it was done as an act of revenge.
Click to expand...

It was an act of vengeance by union general Montgomery Meigs, who knew Robert e Lee due to the two of them being graduates of West Point.

Union Gen. Montgomery C. Meigs detested Robert E. Lee, who had once been his friend and mentor, even his idol. Once Lee defected to the Confederate side, Meigs turned against him with a vengeance.

Because of that dynamic, today we have Arlington National Cemetery.

As quartermaster general and close adviser to Lincoln, Meigs was often consulted on matters of logistics. When the need arose for a new military cemetery, he recommended Arlington House — which was owned by Lee’s wife, Mary. The military was already occupying the estate, and it was conveniently close to Washington. It also offered the opportunity to make sure the Lees would never want to return to their home.

As the tombstones began to fill the long sloping hill in front of the house, Meigs announced that he was “grimly satisfied.” But then he inflicted one more wound: He ordered that bodies be buried in Mary Lee’s much-prized rose garden, right next to the mansion. When that didn’t happen fast enough, he personally drew the lines for several graves and directed the excavations.
Click to expand...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arlington-national-cemetery-and-the-fight-over-robert-e-lees-home/2014/04/24/b0953124-ca2d-11e3-95f7-7ecdde72d2ea_story.html

So yeah, Arlington became a cemetery due to one man's attempt at getting revenge at Robert e lee
 
MaggieD said:
The original owner was his wife. I'd love to see a credible link that claims it was done as an act of revenge.
Click to expand...

Not sure you will ever find the secret Lincoln memo saying

"**** Lee let's turn his front yard into a graveyard out of spight."

However even the national park service hints that it was done as a screw you.
 
Chillfolks said:
Not sure you will ever find the secret Lincoln memo saying

"**** Lee let's turn his front yard into a graveyard out of spight."

However even the national park service hints that it was done as a screw you.
Click to expand...

Apparently some soldiers were deliberately buried in Mary Lee's rose garden on the order of general Montgomery Meigs.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Apparently some soldiers were deliberately buried in Mary Lee's rose garden on the order of general Montgomery Meigs.
Click to expand...


That was the legend I was told when I took the tour after attending a funeral service a few years back.
 
NIMBY said:
You're referring to the method GOPs have used for 4 decades to tie DEMs to social issues like abortion that you support. Same with guns and elections. Same with DEM Boogiewomen and elections.

To act like DEMs started this and do it more than GOPs since Nixon's Southern Strategy is .......
Click to expand...

what party is responsible for every federal gun control law on the books?
 
MaggieD said:
I'm not going to continue arguing with you.
Click to expand...
And yet, you continue arguing with me. Seems odd.


But when you say that the south never accepted defeat? I think that's exactly the same way history will view liberals re the last election. Those,statues stood, some of them for over one hundred years and more. This is a new America. Filled with hate and wanting to erase history.

Now you are welcome to the last word.
Click to expand...
As you wish.

• You were caught blatantly contradicting yourself. Next time, just own up to it.

• My question to you was, "When did the nation heal from the Civil War?" Unsurprisingly, you have no real answer, and instead just move the goalposts. Impressive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom