• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

500 "supremacists" estimated... and both sides engaged in violence...

No they don't. Nazi groups have been around for half a century and outside of a couple of incidents over that time they have caused no significant disruption to the peace and prosperity of the nation.

Butler’s most infamous acolyte was probably Robert J. Mathews, founder of The Order, a white supremacist domestic terrorist group that committed crimes, including the theft of $3.6 million from an armored car, to fund a hoped-for race war. Members of The Order also murdered Denver talk radio host Alan Berg. Many members of The Order first met at the Aryan Nations compound, and initially sought to finance their efforts by printing counterfeit money on Aryan Nations’ presses. Butler later denied any knowledge of this.

In addition to the murder of Berg, Aryan Nations followers and sympathizers committed other violent crimes. An Aryan Nations and Order member named David Tate shot and killed a state trooper in Missouri in 1985. That same year, the compound’s security chief, Elden "Bud" Cutler, was arrested for trying to hire a hit man to kill an FBI informant who was part of an investigation of The Order.

Aryan Nations got plenty of bad publicity in 1998 when former Aryan Nations guard Buford O’Neal Furrow Jr. fired more than 70 rounds from a submachine gun at a Jewish community center in Los Angeles. He wounded five people, then drove off and shot and killed a Filipino-American postal worker. He eventually surrendered to the FBI in Las Vegas and is now serving a life sentence in prison. Furrow said at the time that he opened fire on the community center because he hated Jews, and that he would not have shot the postal worker had he been white. In 2009, he wrote a letter to a newspaper renouncing the racist views he held.

A month before the Furrow shootings, there was an even more pivotal event in the history of Aryan Nations. That’s when Butler’s security guards chased down a woman and her son after their car backfired while driving near the Aryan Nations compound. The guards forced their car into a ditch and assaulted them. The Southern Poverty Law Center sued on behalf of the victims, and in September 2000, a jury issued a judgment of $6.3 million against the defendants.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/aryan-nations
 
No they don't. Nazi groups have been around for half a century and outside of a couple of incidents over that time they have caused no significant disruption to the peace and prosperity of the nation.
The Creativity Movement is the latest incarnation of the Church of the Creator, which was established by Ben Klassen in 1973. Its adherents believe that race, not religion, is the embodiment of absolute truth and that the white race is the highest expression of culture and civilization. Jews and non-whites — “mud races” — are believed to be intent on subjugating whites. By the late 1980s, increasing numbers of white supremacists were drawn to Klassen’s Nazi-like belief system, which he spelled out in a series of books, most importantly The White Man’s Bible.

Over the years, some so-called Creators have acted on their group’s calls for RaHoWa — “racial holy war” — and been arrested and imprisoned for violent, race-based crimes. In 1992, for example, George Loeb, a Church of the Creator “reverend,” was convicted of first-degree murder in the slaying a year earlier of Harold Mansfield, Jr., an African-American Gulf War veteran, in a parking lot in Neptune Beach, Fla. Loeb was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole.

After Klassen committed suicide in 1993, the Church of the Creator teetered on the brink of extinction. But in 1995, Matt Hale of East Peoria, Ill., resurrected the group, changing its name to World Church of the Creator (WCOTC) in the process and giving himself the title of Pontifex Maximus, meaning “high priest.” Composed largely of racist skinheads, the Hale-led group grew from 14 chapters in 1996 to 88 by 2002, making it the neo-Nazi group with the largest number of chapters in America at that time. In 1999, the group came into the national spotlight after a key member, Benjamin Smith, went on a three-day rampage, apparently enraged that Hale had been denied his law license on moral grounds despite passing the bar exam. Smith killed an African American and a Korean American and wounded nine others. Hale initially denied knowing Smith, but he was lying. As it turned out, Hale had just months earlier named Smith the “Creator of the Year,” the group’s top honor, and, moreover, had spent many hours on the phone with him immediately before the rampage. Although Hale was never charged in connection with Smith’s murder spree (Smith killed himself as police closed in), many officials felt that he had been involved but evaded responsibility.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/creativity-movement
 
No they don't. Nazi groups have been around for half a century and outside of a couple of incidents over that time they have caused no significant disruption to the peace and prosperity of the nation.
Over the years, the NA produced huge amounts of effective propaganda, most famously Pierce's novel The Turner Diaries, which inspired numerous acts of terror including the 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building that left 168 people, including 19 children, dead. The manuscript, which was first published in 1978 under the pseudonym of Andrew Macdonald, described a future race war in which Jews and others are slaughtered by the thousands, with its hero at one point promising to go "to the uttermost ends of the earth to hunt down the last of Satan's spawn" — Jews, that is. Over the years, The Turner Diaries has become one of the most important pieces of extremist literature ever written in America. In 1983, for instance, Bob Mathews, the Alliance's Pacific Northwest coordinator, broke away to form a major terrorist group called The Order (aka Silent Brotherhood, or Bruders Schweigen) — that was clearly patterned on The Organization described in The Turner Diaries. (The Order carried out several murders and a series of armored car heists before Mathews was killed in a 1984 shootout with the FBI.) Eleven years later, Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh had photocopies of pages of The Turner Diaries sealed in a plastic bag in his car when he was arrested, apparently to explain his motivation in the deadly attack in case he was killed. (McVeigh called an NA phone line seven times the day before the bombing.)

In all, NA members were connected to at least 14 violent crimes between 1984 and 2005, including bank robberies, shootouts with police and, in Florida, a plan to bomb the main approach to Disney World.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/national-alliance
 
No they don't. Nazi groups have been around for half a century and outside of a couple of incidents over that time they have caused no significant disruption to the peace and prosperity of the nation.
Yer a NAZI apologist, but that's whut White Nationalists do.
 
The "alt-right" protesters were estimated to number 500 total.

This may be high. I've talked to people who say they never saw more than about 150 in any one place.

Doesn't sound like they have the numbers to take over the country any time soon.

Both sides initiated violence.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally





If five hundred is the best they can do, they're not much of a threat. Bear in mind this was many different groups, not all of them supremacist necessarily, and certainly far from united and organized... some of them can barely tolerate each other under normal circumstances.

Yep. People have way oversimplified the events that went down there. There were different groups and different things were happening in different locations. You have the run of the mill supporters of the statue and the counter-protesters who were not violent, and you have Antifa, KKK, and Neo-Nazis who engaged in trading punches, and you have Fields who rammed his car through a crowd of non-Antifa counter-protesters blocks away from where the more "mundane" violence was occurring.
 
Yep. People have way oversimplified the events that went down there. There were different groups and different things were happening in different locations. You have the run of the mill supporters of the statue and the counter-protesters who were not violent, and you have Antifa, KKK, and Neo-Nazis who engaged in trading punches, and you have Fields who rammed his car through a crowd of non-Antifa counter-protesters blocks away from where the more "mundane" violence was occurring.

Are you sure they weren't antifa? Those people came in no time with bats and other weapons to wreck that car. If they weren't antia, what were they?
 
No they don't. Nazi groups have been around for half a century and outside of a couple of incidents over that time they have caused no significant disruption to the peace and prosperity of the nation.

Apparently they do. They showed up for their march armed to the teeth.
 
Are you sure they weren't antifa? Those people came in no time with bats and other weapons to wreck that car. If they weren't antia, what were they?

People who don't favor allowing someone to run over others with a car just because that person voted for Trump?
 
People who don't favor allowing someone to run over others with a car just because that person voted for Trump?

So there are leftist protesters besides antifa who carry around weapons? Interesting.
 
Or maybe the lefties came armed because the Nazis were. The Nazis were there first.

So, as I've been saying all along, both sides came loaded for bear and, sure as hell, they found a bear.
 
Yep. People have way oversimplified the events that went down there. There were different groups and different things were happening in different locations. You have the run of the mill supporters of the statue and the counter-protesters who were not violent, and you have Antifa, KKK, and Neo-Nazis who engaged in trading punches, and you have Fields who rammed his car through a crowd of non-Antifa counter-protesters blocks away from where the more "mundane" violence was occurring.

Like I keep saying, in Europe and to people who have survived nazi terror, counter protesting is a moral duty. The American president says some of the white supremacists and nazis are good people, and a lot of Trump voters act like the counter protestors were equally as bad as the nazis. There is no way every single person counter protesting was a violent communist, antifa, etc.

America is so strange.

Where is the moral duty to oppose nazism?
 
The "alt-right" protesters were estimated to number 500 total.

This may be high. I've talked to people who say they never saw more than about 150 in any one place.

Doesn't sound like they have the numbers to take over the country any time soon.

Both sides initiated violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally


If five hundred is the best they can do, they're not much of a threat. Bear in mind this was many different groups, not all of them supremacist necessarily, and certainly far from united and organized... some of them can barely tolerate each other under normal circumstances.

The left is propping up a paper tiger for political gain. So little people support white supremacists that I could say "no one does" and not feel dishonest about it. It's infinitesimal.
 
Like I keep saying, in Europe and to people who have survived nazi terror, counter protesting is a moral duty. The American president says some of the white supremacists and nazis are good people, and a lot of Trump voters act like the counter protestors were equally as bad as the nazis. There is no way every single person counter protesting was a violent communist, antifa, etc.

America is so strange.

Where is the moral duty to oppose nazism?

He NEVER said that.

Please read or view what he said. I believe it was that some of the people there were only there in support of keeping the statue of Robert E. Lee from being taken down. Wanting to keep the statue up does not automatically equate to white supremacy.

Others, on the left, were there to protest the White nationalist's peacefully.
 
A guy who hangs out with such people would know those things...

Perhaps.. but sometimes, people are blind to their own prejudices.
 
Are Israelis Jewish supremacists?

This is the technquie known as 'deflection' and the logical fallacy known as 'false equivalency'. I will accept the fact rather than support your claim, you deflect.
 
This is the technquie known as 'deflection' and the logical fallacy known as 'false equivalency'. I will accept the fact rather than support your claim, you deflect.

How is this a false equivalency? If white nationalists are necessarily white supremacists, then Jewish nationalists must also necessarily be Jewish supremacists.
 
Back
Top Bottom