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What do Richard Spencer and Bernie Sanders have in Common?

Quag said:
Wait what?
You are claiming the way to get big govt is to get rid of govt completely?
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No. First, one tries to destroy the old government (as groups like white supremacists and antiFA - antiFirstAmendment are wont to do). Once the old government is destroyed, any kind of new government (or continued anarchy) can exist. Fascist. socialist, Communist...capitalist...any ist.
 
Quag said:
Your definitions of right/left/collectivist/individualist are incorrect.
Right left is not the same as libertarian/authoritarian.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

For instance Nazis are extreme right wing and Libertarians can be left wing
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Your Source that looks like a blog post by a Leftist moms basement dweller and it's highly rhetorical test are meaningless.

It is right about one thing the definitions of Left and Right have become confusing and blurred. Leftist have made it that way by Hijacking titles and constantly trying to inject social issues into the definition.

Hijacking Titles: Today there are lots of Leftist starting to call themselves Libertarian and Anarchist either out of ignorance or purposeful deception. They have done it before, the term Liberal used to describe someone on the Right, basically a Libertarian. Today a Liberal is accepted as a Leftist.

A Libertarian is a Conservative with different views on social issues.

As a Libertarian I want individual freedom and a limited power Govt. But I also have no Religion, I'm fine with early term abortion, I don't care if LGBT get married, etc. Call me a Conservative and I will correct you. Call me a Leftist and I'm highly insulted.

There is no such thing as a Left leaning Libertarian.

Leftist also try to claim Nationalism is a defining trait of the Right. Stalin, Nelson Mandela, Gandhi were all extreme Nationalist and the quintessential Leftists.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Yes, asking them to compromise with Palestine, recognize their right to exist and attempt to live in peace is not anti-Semitism. Running around calling people anti-Jew that don't support Israel's absolute domination of the Palestinians, especially when that person is a Jew, makes you sound incredibly shallow minded. Par for the course for Casca.
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So siding against a/the Jewish state because they maintain dominate control over a group of people who if they could would finish the work of Hitler is showing love Jews?

Like most Leftist Jews Bernie seems to put politics above religion.
 
FieldTheorist said:
You know you've lost this point when even the anti-Bernie liberals, who hate Bernie, are telling you are mischaracterizing him. That's almost impressive. I'm impressed. I didn't think that could happen.
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Specify hoe I mischaracterized Bernie?
 
cabse5 said:
No. First, one tries to destroy the old government (as groups like white supremacists and antiFA - antiFirstAmendment are wont to do). Once the old government is destroyed, any kind of new government (or continued anarchy) can exist. Fascist. socialist, Communist...capitalist...any ist.
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No what? Are they for Big govt or no Govt?
 
Casca XV said:
Your Source that looks like a blog post by a Leftist moms basement dweller and it's highly rhetorical test are meaningless.

It is right about one thing the definitions of Left and Right have become confusing and blurred. Leftist have made it that way by Hijacking titles and constantly trying to inject social issues into the definition.

Hijacking Titles: Today there are lots of Leftist starting to call themselves Libertarian and Anarchist either out of ignorance or purposeful deception. They have done it before, the term Liberal used to describe someone on the Right, basically a Libertarian. Today a Liberal is accepted as a Leftist.

A Libertarian is a Conservative with different views on social issues.

As a Libertarian I want individual freedom and a limited power Govt. But I also have no Religion, I'm fine with early term abortion, I don't care if LGBT get married, etc. Call me a Conservative and I will correct you. Call me a Leftist and I'm highly insulted.

There is no such thing as a Left leaning Libertarian.

Leftist also try to claim Nationalism is a defining trait of the Right. Stalin, Nelson Mandela, Gandhi were all extreme Nationalist and the quintessential Leftists.
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A libertarian can be right or left, just as an authoritarian can be right or left

Nazis are authoritarian right wingers
Anarchists are libertarian left wingers.
 
Quag said:
A libertarian can be right or left, just as an authoritarian can be right or left

Nazis are authoritarian right wingers
Anarchists are libertarian left wingers.
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That only woks if you do the Leftist Propaganda thing of changing definitions of words. The fact is the American Right wants individual Freedom and the American Left wants Govt control.

Every relevant Obama policy ended up giving more power to the Govt.

So far every relevant Trump policy has reduced Govt power. The only arguable exception is he is enforcing some Drug and Illegal immigration laws the were being ignored, but since he is not making new laws that don't count.

The biggest Lie ever told is that Nazi were Right Wingers. Take any Hitler speech, update the terminology replace "The Jews" with "the Rich" and you have a Bernie Sanders speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H6U1NPI0uI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuVk0vM37eQ
 
Casca XV said:
So siding against a/the Jewish state because they maintain dominate control over a group of people who if they could would finish the work of Hitler is showing love Jews?
Like most Leftist Jews Bernie seems to put politics above religion.
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To the people who are rabidly pro-Israel any attempt to suggest that Israel should not have full domination over the Palestinians or that the Palestinians also have a right to exist is seen as an anti-semitic, anti-Israel. Both countries can coexist and there's plenty of blame on both sides. Not all Palestinians are violent but it is an undisputed fact that Israel continues to gobble up more and more Palestinian land making it more and more impossible for a two-state solution to be reached. They want nothing short of pure domination and the removal of Palestinians. For some reason the zionist right in America thinks it's a necessary step for the end times so they support Israel fully in every situation, no matter what blame Israel might carry of its own.
 
Casca XV said:
That only woks if you do the Leftist Propaganda thing of changing definitions of words. The fact is the American Right wants individual Freedom and the American Left wants Govt control.

Every relevant Obama policy ended up giving more power to the Govt.

So far every relevant Trump policy has reduced Govt power. The only arguable exception is he is enforcing some Drug and Illegal immigration laws the were being ignored, but since he is not making new laws that don't count.

The biggest Lie ever told is that Nazi were Right Wingers. Take any Hitler speech, update the terminology replace "The Jews" with "the Rich" and you have a Bernie Sanders speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H6U1NPI0uI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuVk0vM37eQ
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You started with a no true scotsman fallacy then diverted to Obama/Trump for some reason
Just because the USA basically has a 2 party ssytem doesnt mean there is only 2 ways of looking at the world. In fact I would say the link I gave you doesnt go into enough detail
You can be left/right on social issues
You and be left/right on economic issue
You can be Authroitarin or libertarian.
You can be any combination of the above
 
Quag said:
No what? Are they for Big govt or no Govt?
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Anarchists try to destroy the current government and replace it with a preferred governmment. Sometimes the preferred government isn't readibly clear. This happens when anarchists of all governmental persuasions ban together to take down the current government. A, for example, far-right anarchist, like Spencer, and a far-left anarchist, like Sanders, may ban together to take down the current government. Once that current government is destroyed, there would probably be continued anarchy between Spencer and Sanders until an eventual winner emerges.

Here are some examples for ya: The Nazi Party were anarchists and destroyed the Weimar Republic in Germany so they could replace that government with their fascist government lead by the Nazi Party. Lenin and his cronies were anarchists and destroyed the Tsarist government in Russia so they eventually could replace it with their fascist government, Communism. The original anti-Tsarist anarchist movements were made up of Reds and Whites. Once the Tsarist Party was destroyed, the Reds then fought the Whites and the Reds (Communism) emerged.

Usually constant anarchy means that new form of government hasn't been endorsed by the most powerful anarchists. The most powerful anarchists who've obtained their preferred form of government will 'stifle' other anarchists who haven't achieved their optimal form of government.
 
cabse5 said:
Anarchists try to destroy the current government and replace it with a preferred governmment. Sometimes the preferred government isn't readibly clear. This happens when anarchists of all governmental persuasions ban together to take down the current government. A, for example, far-right anarchist, like Spencer, and a far-left anarchist, like Sanders, may ban together to take down the current government. Once that current government is destroyed, there would probably be continued anarchy between Spencer and Sanders until an eventual winner emerges.

Here are some examples for ya: The Nazi Party were anarchists and destroyed the Weimar Republic in Germany so they could replace that government with their fascist government lead by the Nazi Party. Lenin and his cronies were anarchists and destroyed the Tsarist government in Russia so they eventually could replace it with their fascist government, Communism. The original anti-Tsarist anarchist movements were made up of Reds and Whites. Once the Tsarist Party was destroyed, the Reds then fought the Whites and the Reds (Communism) emerged.

Usually constant anarchy means that new form of government hasn't been endorsed by the most powerful anarchists. The most powerful anarchists who've obtained their preferred form of government will 'stifle' other anarchists who haven't achieved their optimal form of government.
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Nzis were anarchists?
Ok sorry I didnt realize you were that confused about the world.
 
Quag said:
You started with a no true scotsman fallacy then diverted to Obama/Trump for some reason
Just because the USA basically has a 2 party ssytem doesnt mean there is only 2 ways of looking at the world. In fact I would say the link I gave you doesnt go into enough detail
You can be left/right on social issues
You and be left/right on economic issue
You can be Authroitarin or libertarian.
You can be any combination of the above
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You can not be an American Right Winger and desire anything but The Constitutional Republic created by our Founding Fathers. That is the one qualifier. There fore you can not be an authoritarian and an American Right Winger.

A few Authoritarians claiming they are Right Wingers doesn't make it so.

President Trump has some Alpha Male leadership personality traits that Leftist Propagandists claim are authoritarian, But every one of his relevant policies is reducing the power of the Federal Govt. That is Right wing.

Obama was Passive Aggressive in his limited leadership style, But there was almost no Obama policy that did not at least indirectly grant more power to the Govt. That is Authoritarianism and that is the American Left Wing.
 
Casca XV said:
You can not be an American Right Winger and desire anything but The Constitutional Republic created by our Founding Fathers. That is the one qualifier. There fore you can not be an authoritarian and an American Right Winger.

A few Authoritarians claiming they are Right Wingers doesn't make it so.

President Trump has some Alpha Male leadership personality traits that Leftist Propagandists claim are authoritarian, But every one of his relevant policies is reducing the power of the Federal Govt. That is Right wing.

Obama was Passive Aggressive in his limited leadership style, But there was almost no Obama policy that did not at least indirectly grant more power to the Govt. That is Authoritarianism and that is the American Left Wing.
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No true scotsman fallacy is a no true scotsman fallacy
 
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JamesBY said:
The alt right and neo-nazis are big government progressives.
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They're big government reactionaries actually.

The economic and social parts of the political scale don't have to go together the same way they do in traditional American politics. That's just our American bias because for us, they usually do.
 
Quag said:
No true scotsman fallacy is a no true scotsman fallacy
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As a Right winger I embrace an Ideology that has made America the greatest most prosperous nation in all human history.

As a Leftist you embrace an Ideology that has always failed and over the last 100 years has killed more people than cancer.

In a political debate the only way you other like you can keep up is through propaganda, moving goal posts and changing definitions of terms.
 
cabse5 said:
Anarchists try to destroy the current government and replace it with a preferred governmment.
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*sigh* No. Anarchists do not want government at all. Anarchy is horizontal rule -- no leaders, no government, ever. It is not a transitional state. It is intended to be a permanent destination.

Do you mean revolution, which is transitional to another form of government?

But I don't see why revolution would be necessary if all you're trying to get to is socialism. America is already partly socialist.

...Do you believe we live under pure capitalism or something? If so, explain SS and Medicare to me. That's... socialism, dude.

Are you for real right now?
 
Casca XV describes himself with, "In a political debate the only way you other like you can keep up is through propaganda, moving goal posts and changing definitions of terms."
 
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Casca XV said:
I just showed beyond a reasonable doubt that they have a lot more in common with Bernie policies than Trumps.

dont take my word listen to them: https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi..._a5NAM&usg=AFQjCNEsfHQIBHFZoVLLHLdHmgPfJ4_BFQ

They claim to support Trump because like most other Leftist they are stupid enough to believe the Propaganda that Trump is a racist.
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*yawn* This is too intellectually dishonest to engage with. Come back to me when you have something better.
 
Casca XV said:
Today Left & Right especially here in America are defined as Collectivist and Individualists.

Collectivist/Leftist: are Progressive, Liberal, Socialist, Fascists, Communist or any other Ideology that wants Government/State running everything.

Individualists/Right Wingers: are Libertarians, Conservatives or any other Ideology that wants limited power Government, individual freedom and Constitutional Republic created by our Founding Fathers.

Race, Religion and other social issues as important as they are, are not defining traits of either the Left or Right.
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Right wingers are authoritarians....and they need big government to be authoritarian.

Right wingers also like their big government entitlements....and that makes them socialists.

Race defines the right as much as it does the left.
 
Casca XV said:
As a Right winger I embrace an Ideology that has made America the greatest most prosperous nation in all human history.

As a Leftist you embrace an Ideology that has always failed and over the last 100 years has killed more people than cancer.

In a political debate the only way you other like you can keep up is through propaganda, moving goal posts and changing definitions of terms.
Click to expand...

No true scotsman fallacy is a no true scotsman fallacy
 
Casca XV said:
As a Right winger I embrace an Ideology that has made America the greatest most prosperous nation in all human history.
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LOL! No, you don't.
As a Leftist you embrace an Ideology that has always failed and over the last 100 years has killed more people than cancer.
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No, he doesn't.
In a political debate the only way you other like you can keep up is through propaganda, moving goal posts and changing definitions of terms.
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You just described yourself perfectly.

Nice unintentional irony you've got there.
 
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