Does Jefferson Davis Deserve a Place of Honor in History?

Does Jefferson Davis deserve a place of honor or of disgrace in history?


What do we know of him?


--His grandfather served as a public servant to the southern colonies.
--His father and uncles served in the Revolutionary War.
--His three older brothers fought in the War of 1812.
--He graduated from West Point at age 20.
--He fought in the Blackhawk War of 1831 capturing the chief who became a lifelong friend due to Davis's considerate and humane treatment.
--He became a high ranking official in the Democratic Party where he supported Texas annexation and spoke against federal interference with states rights.
--He was elected to the House of Representatives as congressman from Mississippi where he continued to support states rights and was instrumental in converting military forts into training schools.
--He left congress and re-enlisted in the Army and fought in the Mexican-American War
--He was appointed Senator from Mississippi by President Taylor and won re-election the same year as an advocate for states rights.
--He was appointed Secretary of War by President Pierce and resigned that office when Mississippi seceded from the union in 1861.
--He was named President of the Confederacy.
--After the Civil War he was charged with treason but was never tried after Horace Greeley posted his bail.

Following his term as president of the Confederacy, Davis traveled overseas on business. He was offered a job as president of Texas A&M University, but declined. He was also elected to the Senate a third time, but was unable to serve due to restrictions included in the 14th Amendment. In 1881, he wrote The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government in an effort to defend his political stance. Davis lived out his retirement years at an estate called Beauvoir in Mississippi.​

--He was a white supremacist and slave owner who believed as did many, including President Lincoln, that the black people were an inferior race. However he was widely renowned for treating his slaves very well and noted that he could trust them to do their work competently and without an overseer in his absence.


Having fervently defended the union for all his public life, once he was forced to take sides he said: "I regarded the separation of the states as a great, though not the greater evil."


https://www.biography.com/people/jefferson-davis-9267899#!

The question is. Does one bad black mark on a person's otherwise commendable record negate all the good?

It's simple, we judge people based on the context of their time.

Would such a man hold the same beliefs regarding race now as he did then?

AlbqOwl said:

Does Jefferson Davis deserve a place of honor or of disgrace in history?

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Honor no? He deserves a factual recording of his record, with a special point made that "states rights" has throughout history been used as code for "we want to do something we know is horribly wrong and can't defend, but since the majority of our state wants to do it you should let us do it anyway."

ForeignRightist said:

It's simple, we judge people based on the context of their time.

Would such a man hold the same beliefs regarding race now as he did then?

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Well given that the current leaders of the southern conservative party seem to hold similar beliefs it's not really a stretch to think he would as well.

AlbqOwl said:

Does Jefferson Davis deserve a place of honor or of disgrace in history?

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Also, about your poll......... not deserving to be honored, is very different than being disgraced.

ForeignRightist said:

It's simple, we judge people based on the context of their time.

Would such a man hold the same beliefs regarding race now as he did then?

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I am old enough to be fully aware and cognizant of the process of desegregation and how that totally changed the culture of the nation. I witnessed myself first hand how affirmative action erased some prejudices and created others.

So of course, had George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, et al been born in our time, they would have been as morally and emotionally repulsed by the idea of slavery as any of us. But they were born in their time when the culture was much different and slavery was the norm in cultures throughout the world. Many of our own Native American tribes owned and traded slaves. Some wealthy Cherokee owned black slaves in the early 19th century and took them with them when they were forced to migrate.

Had Jefferson Davis or Robert E. Lee been born in our time instead of theirs, they would not have considered seceding from the nation and that would not have been part of their history.

That said, I'm not sure that means Jefferson Davis should be honored by history, at least in the context of how our government honors other slaveholders like Washington or Jefferson, statues or memorials on government property. They aren't honored for their slaveholding but for their contributions to our country. Davis took up as the president of a breakaway nation fighting against our government.

What Davis does deserve, like anyone else, is an accurate representation in history.

MrWonka said:

Honor no? He deserves a factual recording of his record, with a special point made that "states rights" has throughout history been used as code for "we want to do something we know is horribly wrong and can't defend, but since the majority of our state wants to do it you should let us do it anyway."

Click to expand...

Did you read the OP? The link to the biographical data included in the OP? Did you see that Davis strongly supported the union and hated the idea of breaking it up?

Is there any human alive with a record so stellar and without criticism that he/she deserves a memorial or monument or other public commemoration? And must any who have such commemoration be without no sin at all?

MrWonka said:

Honor no? He deserves a factual recording of his record, with a special point made that "states rights" has throughout history been used as code for "we want to do something we know is horribly wrong and can't defend, but since the majority of our state wants to do it you should let us do it anyway."

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So that is what states rights mean in regard to legalizing marijuana despite federal law.

Interesting take, but I disagree.

I believe the states have the right to legalize marijuana despite the federal law if they so choose, because I believe in the 10th Amendment.

If Jefferson Davis were alive today, he would support the rights of the states to choose for themselves on issues like marijuana.

AlbqOwl said:

Did you read the OP? The link to the biographical data included in the OP? Did you see that Davis strongly supported the union and hated the idea of breaking it up?

Is there any human alive with a record so stellar and without criticism that he/she deserves a memorial or monument or other public commemoration? And must any who have such commemoration be without no sin at all?

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He was a traitor and should be remembered as such

Anagram said:

View attachment 67221407

That said, I'm not sure that means Jefferson Davis should be honored by history, at least in the context of how our government honors other slaveholders like Washington or Jefferson, statues or memorials on government property. They aren't honored for their slaveholding but for their contributions to our country. Davis took up as the president of a breakaway nation fighting against our government.

What Davis does deserve, like anyone else, is an accurate representation in history.

Click to expand...

Yes and Sam Houston and Stephen Austin are honored for violating their oath of allegiance to Mexico and spearheading Texas breaking away from that nation.

Washington and Jefferson are honored for rejecting their allegiance to England and spearheading the breaking away from the monarchy and establishing a new nation.

So what is so unreasonable about the southern states wishing to separate themselves from a country that they saw as oppressive and unjust?

AlbqOwl said:

treating his slaves very well

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AlbqOwl said:

Yes and Sam Houston and Stephen Austin are honored for violating their oath of allegiance to Mexico and spearheading Texas breaking away from that nation.

Washington and Jefferson are honored for rejecting their allegiance to England and spearheading the breaking away from the monarchy and establishing a new nation.

So what is so unreasonable about the southern states wishing to separate themselves from a country that they saw as oppressive and unjust?

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Davis broke away from this country and waged war against this government. It makes sense for the government of this country not to honor that.

He has a place in history, as he deserves. Whether he is honored or not is up to individuals evaluating the roles he played in history.

Some see him as a patriot, others as a traitor.

AlbqOwl said:

Does Jefferson Davis deserve a place of honor or of disgrace in history?

Click to expand...

AlbqOwl said:

Did you read the OP? The link to the biographical data included in the OP? Did you see that Davis strongly supported the union and hated the idea of breaking it up?

Click to expand...

He may have hated it breaking up, but when it did he chose an absolutely horrible side.

AlbqOwl said:

Is there any human alive with a record so stellar and without criticism that he/she deserves a memorial or monument or other public commemoration? And must any who have such commemoration be without no sin at all?

Click to expand...

Plenty. Ignorance can justify the mistakes of many great men, but you're talking about a time in history where at least half the country or more was intelligent enough to realize how horribly immoral slavery was and that it had to end. He not only did not apparently realize this, but was willing to go to war killing his fellow country men from the northern part of the union he supposedly cared so much about just so that he could continue treating black people like ****.

Jefferson Davis was on the wrong side of history when hundreds of thousands of better men were not. That's really the key to me. There are critical points throughout history where at least half if not a majority of people come to their senses, and understand that certain things are wrong. Once you get to a point where that much of the population is woke on a particular issue there's simply no excuse for an intelligent and decent person to continue to be wrong.

Let's take for example something like gay marriage. When President Obama initially ran for president he said he was against it. As opinions on the subject changed however it became easier and easier for all the arguments for and against it to be heard, and because President Obama is a rational thinking person with a good moral compass he was able to recognize a losing argument when he saw it and get on the right side. Even though he at one point made a mistake, when it came down to brass tacks, and he realized that he truly needed to take a stand he picked the right one, and I would honor him for that even if he initially made a mistake.

AlbqOwl said:

Yes and Sam Houston and Stephen Austin are honored for violating their oath of allegiance to Mexico and spearheading Texas breaking away from that nation.

Washington and Jefferson are honored for rejecting their allegiance to England and spearheading the breaking away from the monarchy and establishing a new nation.

So what is so unreasonable about the southern states wishing to separate themselves from a country that they saw as oppressive and unjust?

Click to expand...

They are not honored in the countries they were traitors to at the time

Anagram said:

View attachment 67221407

That said, I'm not sure that means Jefferson Davis should be honored by history, at least in the context of how our government honors other slaveholders like Washington or Jefferson, statues or memorials on government property. They aren't honored for their slaveholding but for their contributions to our country. Davis took up as the president of a breakaway nation fighting against our government.

What Davis does deserve, like anyone else, is an accurate representation in history.

Click to expand...

I would take quotes from people who burned their daughters alive with a grain of salt

AlbqOwl said:

Does Jefferson Davis deserve a place of honor or of disgrace in history?


What do we know of him?


--His grandfather served as a public servant to the southern colonies.
--His father and uncles served in the Revolutionary War.
--His three older brothers fought in the War of 1812.
--He graduated from West Point at age 20.
--He fought in the Blackhawk War of 1831 capturing the chief who became a lifelong friend due to Davis's considerate and humane treatment.
--He became a high ranking official in the Democratic Party where he supported Texas annexation and spoke against federal interference with states rights.
--He was elected to the House of Representatives as congressman from Mississippi where he continued to support states rights and was instrumental in converting military forts into training schools.
--He left congress and re-enlisted in the Army and fought in the Mexican-American War
--He was appointed Senator from Mississippi by President Taylor and won re-election the same year as an advocate for states rights.
--He was appointed Secretary of War by President Pierce and resigned that office when Mississippi seceded from the union in 1861.
--He was named President of the Confederacy.
--After the Civil War he was charged with treason but was never tried after Horace Greeley posted his bail.

Following his term as president of the Confederacy, Davis traveled overseas on business. He was offered a job as president of Texas A&M University, but declined. He was also elected to the Senate a third time, but was unable to serve due to restrictions included in the 14th Amendment. In 1881, he wrote The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government in an effort to defend his political stance. Davis lived out his retirement years at an estate called Beauvoir in Mississippi.​

--He was a white supremacist and slave owner who believed as did many, including President Lincoln, that the black people were an inferior race. However he was widely renowned for treating his slaves very well and noted that he could trust them to do their work competently and without an overseer in his absence.


Having fervently defended the union for all his public life, once he was forced to take sides he said: "I regarded the separation of the states as a great, though not the greater evil."


https://www.biography.com/people/jefferson-davis-9267899#!

The question is. Does one black mark on a person's otherwise commendable record negate all the good?

Click to expand...

I offer Bill Cosby as an example!

Rexedgar said:

I offer Bill Cosby as an example!

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He's not old enough to have been in the Civil War.

Crovax said:

I would take quotes from people who burned their daughters alive with a grain of salt

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Him being terrible at the end does not negate his sound advice here.

Moon said:

He's not old enough to have been in the Civil War.

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Have you seen him lately?

Anagram said:

Him being terrible at the end does not negate his sound advice here.

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Actally it does, it calls into question his judgement. Burning your daughter alive to gain favor with the Lord of light is exactly the type of thing a crazy person would do.

Crovax said:

Actally it does, it calls into question his judgement. Burning your daughter alive to gain favor with the Lord of light is exactly the type of thing a crazy person would do.

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It might call into question his judgment. But it doesn't automatically mean everything he says is wrong. Which in this case, it's not.

Anagram said:

It might call into question his judgment. But it doesn't automatically mean everything he says is wrong. Which in this case, it's not.

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Well as a general rule I usually like to ignore all advice given by insane people and in this case he clearly has an ulterior motive for saying it to absolve himself for all of the very bad things he has done